Bookworm Transcripts

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100 episodes of bookworm in the can.

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How does it feel, Joe Buleg?

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- It's kind of weird.

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- It is.

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- I think there's so many things that we do different now.

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I almost decided to go back and listen to episode one

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just for posterity sake.

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And I started and said, uh-uh.

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- Yep.

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- I'm not doing this.

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- Rule number one for podcasters is you don't go back

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and re-listen to your old episode.

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- No.

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- Please no.

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Never.

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- I made it like four minutes in.

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That's about all I made and I had to let it go.

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- Yep.

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We've come a long way since episode one.

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It's gotten significantly better in my opinion.

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But we're gonna do something a little bit different today.

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We are going to take a look at some of the bookworm rankings

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and we may be making some tweaks to some of those.

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But before that, I have prepared a quiz for you, Joe.

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- I'm really scared about this, to be honest.

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Mike texted me about this was it yesterday?

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- It was yesterday.

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- That you texted me about it and...

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- I don't know how I feel about this.

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- Yeah, so background on this,

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I put together an Excel spreadsheet,

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well Google Sheets document,

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which I'll share with you after the fact.

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Which has every episode, every book, every author,

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the length of every episode and every rating that we've had.

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And I've color coded the rows for the ones that were double fives.

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Those are gold.

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The ones that are one of us gave it a five

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and one of us gave it a 4.5.

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Those are silver.

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And then there's bronze where we both gave it a 4.5.

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- All right.

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- So we've got several gold books,

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several silver books and several bronze books.

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And yeah, so I did all this prep.

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I tabulated all this stuff.

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And I thought as I was doing this,

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this would be really cool to put Joe on the spot

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of his game and do a quiz of bookworm history.

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So this is the official bookworm quiz.

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I designed it in pages, exported it as a PDF.

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And there will be a link available in these show notes

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for people who are listening to this not live.

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So I haven't exported it yet as we record this.

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But if you are listening to it in your podcast player,

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what you can do is you can tap or click that link,

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download the PDF, take the quiz yourself

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and compare your score to Joe's.

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Because I'm gonna give Joe this quiz

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and I'm going to keep track of your score as we go.

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Are you ready?

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- This is terrifying.

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I feel like this is,

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because this is one of those quizzes

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that you should know all the answers to.

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And you feel like you're not,

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I feel like I know nothing about what this is about to be.

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- This could be really bad for me.

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- Well, I will set the stage here.

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This is not an easy quiz.

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And I don't expect you to get a ton of these right.

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I will offer you opportunities for bonus points as we go.

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- Ah, bonus points involve too.

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- Yes.

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- Okay.

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- And I--

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- And you spent some time on this.

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- I did, I did.

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So there's 10 questions.

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And I also made them all multiple choice.

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So.

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- Okay.

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- Even if you don't know the answers,

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but you're a good test taker,

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maybe you can crack my formula in A, C.

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- It's the whole thing.

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- Okay.

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- All right, so let's jump in here.

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- All right.

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- Question number one.

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This is the easiest question in the whole quiz,

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but no cheating,

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no going to your web browser to find this.

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What day was the first episode of Bookworm published?

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Is it A, June 24th of 2017,

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B, July 7th of 2016,

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C, July 23rd of 2016,

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or D, July 16th of 2017?

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- All right, so,

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the thing I know is that it was

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right before Max-Stock.

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And I know it was four years ago.

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Like those are the things I know.

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Max-Stock's always in July.

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- Huh, and four years would be

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1918, 17, 16.

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So it has to be 2016, July and 2016.

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I should have wrote these down.

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Can you say those again?

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- Sure.

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- Just give me the July and 2016 ones.

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- Okay.

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So the 2016 ones are B, July 7th, 2016,

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or C, July 23rd, 2016.

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- July 7th, 2016.

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- Final answer?

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- Sure, final answer.

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- All right, that is correct.

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- Yes.

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'Cause Max-Stock isn't that late.

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- Yeah, yeah.

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- This is my only reference point.

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- I wanted to make this super hard

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and go back and find the original notes

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from episode one and ask you when we recorded it,

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but I couldn't even find that.

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- Yeah.

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- 'Cause we recorded several and had them in the can

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before we launched it.

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- It's in quippin' it.

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- It could be, I don't remember what tool

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we were using back then.

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I know for a while I was keeping book notes

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and things inside of a separate app,

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which has been retired since then,

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so I lost a bunch of my notes from the early episodes,

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but July 7th, 2016 was the first episode of Bookworm.

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And I thought maybe you would know this

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because I tweeted about the four year anniversary

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not too long ago.

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- Well, I know we're four years in

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because we get roughly 25 episodes in a year

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and we're at episode 100, so.

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- Correct.

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- General math gets me there.

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- Yeah.

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- But it's interesting though that,

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so we're recording this on August 17th.

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And it's interesting to be like,

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okay, yes, we end up about 25, 26-ish episodes

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in a year, but if it was July 7th,

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like that tells you that over four years

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were about a month and a half behind,

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not quite month and 10 days,

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behind of being dead on.

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- Yeah, well, fun fact,

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we released two episodes actually, July 7th.

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So there were two episodes available out of the gate.

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And then the next one was July 12th, episode three,

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and then episode four was July 20th.

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So there were actually four episodes

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in about a two week period at the beginning.

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- Interesting.

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- And there were periods where things were going on

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and we didn't get the episode out every week,

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although every other week,

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although lately we've been doing pretty good with that.

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So hopefully that's in the past.

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- I hope it is.

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- All right, so good job.

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So far you are 100% question number one correct.

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- Okay, good.

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I feel like it's only gonna go downhill from here.

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- All right.

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How many, question number two,

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how many episodes have not had a rating?

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- Ooh.

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- Your options are A, one, B, two,

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C, three, or D, four.

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- Well, I know we had one that we didn't rate with Chris Bailey

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'cause it was weird to rate his book in front of him.

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And then I know we did the extra episode with NIR, A-all,

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which didn't have a rating to it

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'cause it was kind of a bonus episode.

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Does that one count?

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'Cause technically this would be episode 101,

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if you count that.

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- That is a good point.

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- He's getting quiet.

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I feel like I'm approaching something.

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- We will include the NIR, A-all interview.

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- Okay.

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I can think of two.

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I don't think there was a third.

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I know like we've had a couple of guests on,

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but we still did a rating with them

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'cause it wasn't their book per se.

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Like we just, we had them rated it as well.

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So I'm gonna go with two.

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That's my vote.

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All right.

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Well, actually it is three.

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You're right that we didn't do a rating

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for the author's corner with NIR, A-all.

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- Right.

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- And you mentioned Chris Bailey,

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but it was actually Chris Capehart

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that we had done the interview on his book, Step,

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because I had met him at a conference.

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And then the other episode where we did not rate a book

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was episode 50, where we did the draft.

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Oh, I should've known that.

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Oh, I was close.

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I was really close.

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I get Chris Bailey and Chris Capehart

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backwards all the time.

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- Yeah.

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- I do.

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I continually think they are the other person consistently.

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I think if I were to actually meet one or the other,

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I would no longer have that issue, but.

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- That is accurate.

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All right.

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- Interesting.

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- So you are one for two.

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- I was so close.

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- I should've known that one.

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- You were.

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- Question number three.

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How many guest ratings have we had on Bookworm?

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A, zero, B, one, C, two, or D, three?

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- I can think of two right off my top of my head

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'cause I was just talking about this

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'cause I know we had Josh Ranchon who did a rating

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'cause we did the dysfunctions of a team.

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Patrick Lencioni, he joined us for that.

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We had Sean Bloncon.

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I don't remember the book we covered with him,

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but I know we had him on.

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I assume he did a rating.

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And I feel like I'm missing one.

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I'm drawing a blank, but I feel like there was a third.

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(laughing)

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I think there's a third somewhere.

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(groaning)

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This is, I really wanna pull up the list.

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(laughing)

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I'm just gonna run through it.

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(laughing)

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- Oh, cheating.

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- Oh.

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Who would the third have been though?

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I can't place it.

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I'm gonna say three 'cause I'm almost certain

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there's another one, but I can't think of who it was.

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Is it three?

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- Final answer?

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- I'll say finally, it's three.

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- All right.

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Incorrect.

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There are just the two.

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- See, I talked myself out of it.

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- Yep, but you nailed those two.

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I'm impressed.

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(laughing)

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Yeah, so Josh joined us for episode 35 dysfunctions

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of a team and he gave it four stars.

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- Okay.

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- And then Sean Bloncon joined us in episode 22

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to talk about the 10X rule by Grant Cardone

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and he gave it 4.5 stars.

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- Okay.

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- Pretty good. - Interesting.

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- You talked yourself out of that one.

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- I did, I did.

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In my head, like, near gave us a rating

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or Chris gave us a rating or something like that happened,

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but I think we just talked about rating with them

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and I'm gonna brain-translated it.

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(laughing)

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- All right, so you are one for three so far.

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Question number four,

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how many total guests have appeared on Bookworm?

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A, three, B, four, C, five, or D, six?

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- Total guests.

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So we had Chris, near, Josh, and Sean.

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I feel like that's it.

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We've talked about other guests before.

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This is where I'm gonna get screwed over.

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So we've talked about a number of guests on the show

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and we've played around with the idea

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of having guests on the show in different ways,

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but those haven't come to fruition in their entirety.

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What did I just have?

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I'm gonna say four.

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- Four?

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- That's gonna be my answer, I'm gonna say four.

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- Final answer.

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- Yes.

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- You are incorrect, it is five.

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So you mentioned Sean, you mentioned Chris Capehart,

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you mentioned Josh for the Fides functions

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and you mentioned near aisle.

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You also initially mentioned Chris Bailey

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and he joined us at the end of the episode for Hyper Focus

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where we nerded out about plain text editors and keyboards.

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- Yep.

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See, this is where the whole Chris Capehart,

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Chris Bailey thing gets really screwed up for.

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- Worked against you.

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- 'Cause in my head of the same person.

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And I don't know why that is.

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So you're like playing into a thing

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that I have a problem with.

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- Sorry.

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All right, question number five.

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How many repeat authors have we had on Bookworm?

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A, four, B, five, C, six or D, seven?

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- All right, so we had a tool for one day

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'cause we had the checklist manifesto

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and being mortal.

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We have had Patrick Lencioni, Chris Bailey,

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as three.

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Have we done two by Simon Sinek?

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I don't think we have, we've talked about that one.

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- I can't tell you that.

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(laughing)

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- Come on.

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So I can think of three at the moment.

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Can I find them all?

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(laughing)

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Oh, let's see.

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Analog cheating.

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- I totally analog cheating.

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- It's not gonna help though.

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(laughing)

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- Ah, let's see.

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Let's see, let's see, let's see.

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I feel like we have done two by Simon.

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What's that put me at four?

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- I believe so.

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- Oh, let's see, four.

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I don't think we've done more than that.

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No, we did.

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There's Cal Newport.

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So there's five.

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Hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm.

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So he's part of the problem is I also have

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like some gap books that then create doubles.

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- Yeah.

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(laughing)

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- And I'm like, okay, which one of those was a bookworm?

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- Ugh, I'm gonna say five.

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I think we've had five.

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That's my final answer.

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- All right, let me mark that down.

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B, five.

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That is incorrect.

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We've actually had seven repeat authors.

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- Really?

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- Yes.

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So you mentioned a tool Gawande

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with the checklist manifesto and being mortal,

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becoming mortal.

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- Yep, being mortal.

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- We've had Patrick Lencioni with the five disfunctions,

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three big questions and the motive.

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Chris Bailey with the Productivity Project and Hyper Focus.

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Cal Newport with Deep Work and Digital Minimalism.

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- Yep.

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- Simon Sinek with Start with Y in the Infinite Game.

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- Yep.

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- The two you missed were David Allen,

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getting things done.

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- Oh, right.

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- And then you picked making it all work.

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- Yep.

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- And then the other one is a fairly recent to the list.

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That's Ryan Holiday.

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So we did the obstacles away a long time ago

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and then recently did Stillness Is the Key.

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- Yep, you're right.

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- So seven repeat authors.

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- Huh, that's a lot.

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That's a lot more than I would have expected us

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to cover in that span.

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- I know.

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- All right.

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- I'm surprised I got to five, honestly.

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Now that you say that whole list,

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I'm not sure if you caught me on the street

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and asked that question, wait, hold up.

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(laughs)

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- Yeah, I didn't think you would be able to identify them.

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I thought you would just pick a number

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and maybe you would just the right one.

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But you did better remembering them

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than I thought you would.

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- Sure.

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- I definitely would not have gotten that.

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(laughs)

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All right, so now we've got some length-based questions

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just because I tabulated all this stuff

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and how this is kind of interesting.

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So what is the length of the shortest bookworm episode?

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Is it A, 52 minutes, four seconds,

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B, 54 minutes, 19 seconds,

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C, 58 minutes, 53 seconds,

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or D, one hour, two minutes and 16 seconds.

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- In my head it was an hour 15, so let's see.

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(laughs)

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I feel like I've seen a 52 before.

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- Let's see, I'm not allowed to go to the website, am I?

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- Nope.

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- Not cheating.

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- Can I go to my website?

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- Don't do it.

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- 'Cause mine has all the durations calculated.

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- Nope, nope, no cheating.

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(laughs)

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- You could just scan the list.

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(laughs)

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I wanna say it's 52 minutes

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'cause I feel like in my head I've seen that number

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in an RSS feed of durations

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'cause I had to build that at one point.

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That's, this is complete guess off of

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a very, very, very tiny vague memory.

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(laughs)

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- All right, final answer?

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- Sure.

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- You are correct.

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- What?

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- Yep.

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- Now the bonus question,

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what episode was that?

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Oh gosh.

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- I have no, it would have to be an early one

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'cause we got longer.

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- Yep.

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- Over time.

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- Is it like Peter Drucker's book?

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'Cause it was such a short book.

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- Managing oneself, episode 13?

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- Yeah, right.

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That would be a guess,

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but this whole question is a complete guess.

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(laughs)

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- That is incorrect.

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So no bonus point.

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The book was The Obstacles Away, episode four

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by Ryan Holiday, which I kind of can't believe

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we went through that whole book in 52 minutes.

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- I know, I know.

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I totally would have expected that to be a lot longer than that.

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- Yep, me too.

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- Interesting.

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- Okay.

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- All right, question number seven.

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What is the length of the longest bookworm episode?

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One hour, 57 minutes, 38 seconds.

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One hour, 59 minutes, 24 seconds.

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Two hours, 17 minutes, 48 seconds.

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Four, two hours, 18 minutes and 22 seconds.

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- See, putting two of them within a minute of each other

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is just mean.

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(laughs)

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- Well, you would be surprised how many

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of the times were actually very close to each other.

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- Really?

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- Mm-hmm.

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- Okay.

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Well, I'm pretty certain it's over two hours.

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'Cause I feel like I've seen a two.

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- This is awesome.

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I was totally in your head when I was making this.

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(laughs)

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- Yeah.

00:19:59

- You're making the exact logical deductions

00:20:01

that I was hoping you would make.

00:20:02

(laughs)

00:20:05

- This is almost scary.

00:20:06

(laughs)

00:20:07

- Oh, let's see.

00:20:09

I'm pretty certain I've seen a two hour deal.

00:20:12

Whether it's 17 or 18,

00:20:15

I have no recollection of that at all.

00:20:21

So it would just be a complete guess

00:20:24

on this and Isaac is absolutely correct in the chat.

00:20:28

(laughs)

00:20:29

It's up, dude.

00:20:29

I'm going to guess

00:20:32

the two hours, 18 minutes.

00:20:36

That's my guess.

00:20:37

- All right.

00:20:38

D two hours, 18 minutes, 22 seconds.

00:20:41

- Yes.

00:20:42

- That is incorrect.

00:20:46

- Is that the 17?

00:20:47

- Yes.

00:20:49

- So episode 56, hyper focus with Chris Bailey,

00:20:53

because we had the interview with Chris at the end,

00:20:56

was two hours, 17 minutes and 48 seconds.

00:20:59

So the correct answer is C. - Interesting.

00:21:02

- Now, I thought that you might just go

00:21:05

for the longest one. (laughs)

00:21:06

So I wanted to make sure there was a longer option.

00:21:09

(laughs)

00:21:10

- Yeah, thanks.

00:21:11

Appreciate that.

00:21:12

- So the other one is made up. (laughs)

00:21:14

- Thanks.

00:21:15

- But there is one that's very close to that,

00:21:18

which was the one thing, episode 60,

00:21:20

which was not a special episode,

00:21:21

just a normal episode.

00:21:23

That was less than a minute shorter,

00:21:25

two hours, 16 minutes, 57 seconds.

00:21:28

So we have had some very long episodes.

00:21:31

We have tried over time,

00:21:34

you have tried to reign me in.

00:21:36

- Give me closer to an hour and a half.

00:21:38

(laughs)

00:21:39

- I try to every time, like 90 minutes

00:21:41

is kind of where I feel they should be,

00:21:43

if not like 80.

00:21:44

- So that's where we shoot for, but.

00:21:47

(laughs)

00:21:48

- It doesn't really get there, ever.

00:21:50

(laughs)

00:21:52

- Yep.

00:21:54

- Interesting.

00:21:56

Okay, but yeah, we have had some over two hours,

00:21:59

well over two hours.

00:22:00

So interesting.

00:22:01

- Okay.

00:22:02

- All right, so since you now know

00:22:06

what we are shooting for with the episodes

00:22:09

and you know that we tend to go long

00:22:12

and you know that the earlier episodes were shorter,

00:22:16

question number eight,

00:22:17

what is the average length of a bookworm episode?

00:22:20

Is it one hour, 49 minutes, 13 seconds.

00:22:25

That's option A, option B, one hour, 35 minutes,

00:22:30

seven seconds, C, one hour, 36 minutes, 12 seconds,

00:22:35

or D, one hour, 38 minutes, and 46 seconds.

00:22:39

- Those are all really close to each other.

00:22:44

- Huh, I don't feel like,

00:22:47

like an hour 49 is too long for that.

00:22:53

Like I feel like it's too,

00:22:54

we do shoot for an hour 30

00:22:58

and we have had some super short ones

00:23:00

that I'm sure are throwing the average.

00:23:03

They're a bit,

00:23:03

my thinking says it's probably like an hour 36,

00:23:09

but I also feel like you're possibly playing games with me

00:23:13

on that.

00:23:14

(laughs)

00:23:15

I'm definitely playing games with you at this point.

00:23:17

(laughs)

00:23:19

- Okay, so knowing that when we record

00:23:25

generally the recording files

00:23:29

are about an hour 45,

00:23:32

like that much I have a pretty good feel on,

00:23:37

at least that's what my recorded files are generally.

00:23:40

And I know that we edit those down,

00:23:42

but not a ton, at least you do.

00:23:44

- So option A is off the table then, right?

00:23:48

One hour 40 minutes, 13 seconds.

00:23:50

- Correct, okay.

00:23:50

- Because we shoot for an hour 30

00:23:53

and we're rarely there,

00:23:55

I don't think it's the hour 35,

00:23:59

which makes me think it's possibly not the 36,

00:24:02

which makes me think it is the hour 38.

00:24:04

That's gonna be my guess.

00:24:07

All right, so hour 38, 46 seconds.

00:24:10

That's my guess.

00:24:12

All right, option D, that's your final answer.

00:24:16

Isn't correct.

00:24:19

It is actually one hour 35 minutes or seven seconds.

00:24:22

- See, a new plan.

00:24:23

- So we're not far off of what we've been shooting for.

00:24:28

- Well yeah, but when you throw in

00:24:29

the 52 minute pieces into the average.

00:24:32

(laughs)

00:24:33

- Yeah, there weren't that many of those.

00:24:35

There were only, let's see, one, two,

00:24:40

two episodes that were less than an hour.

00:24:43

- Sure, but still it's half.

00:24:45

- Yep.

00:24:46

- Interesting. - True.

00:24:47

- The total time, by the way,

00:24:49

fun fact is 156 hours, 56 minutes and one second.

00:24:54

- Wow.

00:24:56

- So if you were to start and just play

00:24:59

through the entire Bookworm catalog,

00:25:00

it would take you six days, 12 hours, 56 minutes.

00:25:05

- Just play it, start to finish.

00:25:07

- To play every episode. - Interesting.

00:25:09

- Before this one. - Interesting.

00:25:10

- Yeah.

00:25:11

(laughs)

00:25:13

Not bad for a couple of introverts.

00:25:15

(laughs)

00:25:16

- So to stream the other, what is it?

00:25:21

It's 100 episodes, so this is actually the 101st time,

00:25:24

but we had like the bonus one throwing in.

00:25:26

So if you listen to those 100 episodes,

00:25:29

it would take you over six days to do it.

00:25:31

- Yeah, and actually I did not put

00:25:33

the author's corner episode in this.

00:25:37

- Okay.

00:25:38

- I counted it because of your thought process.

00:25:41

- Sure.

00:25:42

- When you were trying to figure out the guests

00:25:44

and the ratings. - Yes.

00:25:45

- So I kind of modified that on the fly.

00:25:47

- Okay, sure.

00:25:48

- Once I saw where your brain was going.

00:25:50

- Yes.

00:25:51

- But that's not part of the Bookworm canon, so to say.

00:25:54

- Yeah, so the core episodes, sure.

00:25:56

I get it. - Yep.

00:25:57

- Makes sense.

00:25:59

- You totally played games with me on that average.

00:26:01

(laughs)

00:26:05

Now I'll switch into some of the ratings.

00:26:09

- Okay.

00:26:10

- All right, so what is the lowest rating ever given

00:26:15

on Bookworm?

00:26:17

Is it 0.5 stars, 1.0 stars, 1.5 stars,

00:26:22

or 2.0 stars?

00:26:25

- 2.0. - 2.0.

00:26:27

- 2.0, final answer.

00:26:28

(laughs)

00:26:33

I think, oh, let's see.

00:26:36

'Cause I know we just did the crossroads,

00:26:42

and that was, I think, my lowest, which was 2.0.

00:26:45

And I think 2.0.

00:26:47

Wait, what did you rate the...

00:26:51

Oh, shoot, what's the book?

00:26:56

Your favorite.

00:26:56

I'm totally drawn a blank.

00:26:58

The art of asking.

00:27:01

Amanda Palmer.

00:27:03

There you go.

00:27:04

Yeah, Otter got it for me.

00:27:06

What was that one?

00:27:07

What did you rate that one?

00:27:08

I don't think you rated it 1.5, did you?

00:27:10

It's not 1.0.

00:27:13

I know it's not 1.0.

00:27:14

I know it's not 0.5.

00:27:16

It's either 1.5 or 2.0.

00:27:18

It's one of those two.

00:27:19

I know that.

00:27:20

I think...

00:27:23

I think you rated it at 1.5, though.

00:27:29

You're just smiling at me.

00:27:33

I just enjoyed watching you go through this.

00:27:36

This is me mending.

00:27:37

(laughs)

00:27:38

This is so entertaining.

00:27:39

(laughs)

00:27:41

Okay, 'cause I'm pretty sure that I rated

00:27:46

the crossroads at 2.0.

00:27:49

And I think you potentially beat me on that.

00:27:53

'Cause we were talking about this a few episodes ago

00:27:56

about the lowest rating.

00:27:59

I think it's 1.5.

00:28:02

I'm gonna go with that.

00:28:04

I'm gonna say 1.5.

00:28:06

All right, so you're changing your answer.

00:28:07

C, correct?

00:28:09

Yes. 1.5.

00:28:10

That's your final answer.

00:28:12

Sure, yeah.

00:28:13

You are correct.

00:28:16

Yes, 1.5.

00:28:16

That's only the one.

00:28:18

Now, the bonus question,

00:28:21

and I think I know what your answer's gonna be,

00:28:22

but I just wanna hear it formally from you.

00:28:25

What book was that rating for?

00:28:29

It was the art of asking.

00:28:30

You did it.

00:28:32

That is incorrect.

00:28:34

What?

00:28:36

So the art of asking is episode 35.

00:28:41

Okay.

00:28:43

And I gave it 2.0.

00:28:44

Oh, really?

00:28:47

I thought you went more than that.

00:28:48

No, I gave the art of asking the same score

00:28:51

you gave the crossroads a shit and must just couple

00:28:53

of episodes ago.

00:28:54

(laughs)

00:28:56

Yep, but the 1.5, I did give a book of 1.5,

00:29:01

and that was episode 89,

00:29:03

Zen in the art of motorcycle maintenance.

00:29:06

Oh, that's right.

00:29:07

That's right.

00:29:08

You are correct.

00:29:09

So I disliked that one even more than the art of asking.

00:29:13

Interesting.

00:29:14

That's good to know.

00:29:15

An awful otter, I did not burn it

00:29:17

because I never actually owned it.

00:29:18

(laughs)

00:29:19

I listened to it.

00:29:20

I started to read it,

00:29:21

I borrowed it from the library,

00:29:23

I can't do this.

00:29:23

So I got the audio book

00:29:25

and just listened to it on my run.

00:29:27

(laughs)

00:29:28

Which was the same thing that I've done,

00:29:30

did with the Zen in the art of motorcycle maintenance,

00:29:32

by the way.

00:29:33

Interesting.

00:29:34

Yep.

00:29:35

Good to know.

00:29:36

Those are the only two books

00:29:37

I have not been able to force myself

00:29:40

to read a physical book to get through.

00:29:43

And you had to listen to them.

00:29:45

Yep.

00:29:45

Interesting.

00:29:47

Well, that's fascinating.

00:29:48

I would not,

00:29:50

you know,

00:29:51

I don't remember,

00:29:52

like I don't have a memory of you rating that one at 1.5.

00:29:55

Yep.

00:29:56

I don't.

00:29:58

But that might be because we make fun of,

00:30:00

art of asking so much.

00:30:01

(laughs)

00:30:03

But.

00:30:03

Yes, the funky mosquito,

00:30:04

it's fiction and terrible,

00:30:06

I agree.

00:30:07

(laughs)

00:30:09

Oh man.

00:30:13

Too good.

00:30:14

Too good.

00:30:15

All right.

00:30:16

I got another idea here for bonus questions.

00:30:18

So I'm gonna insert,

00:30:19

there'll be 11 questions here.

00:30:20

Okay.

00:30:21

So question number 10 now,

00:30:24

since I have this also.

00:30:26

What is the average bookworm rating?

00:30:31

Is it A, 3.9,

00:30:36

B, 4.0,

00:30:39

C, 4.1,

00:30:42

or D, 4.2?

00:30:44

That's specific.

00:30:47

It is specific.

00:30:48

That's really specific.

00:30:50

I feel like we've had a lot of like 3.5s,

00:30:53

maybe some threes.

00:30:55

I know we've had a lot of 4.5s and 4.0s too.

00:30:57

So putting these guesses around 4.0 is wise.

00:31:03

(laughs)

00:31:05

And cruel.

00:31:06

Let's see.

00:31:09

My thinking is we are probably

00:31:13

higher than 4.0

00:31:15

because I feel like we tend to go for an up,

00:31:20

because we choose books that we speculate will like,

00:31:23

generally.

00:31:25

Every once in a while we have odd balls,

00:31:28

like, you know, zen or the crossroads,

00:31:30

where one of us likes it,

00:31:32

the other one not so much,

00:31:34

which is always entertaining.

00:31:36

But then that throws in the odd 2.5 rating,

00:31:41

3.0 rating, which would bring it down,

00:31:44

which makes me think it's probably like 4.1,

00:31:47

because I know we've had,

00:31:49

well, that might be high though.

00:31:50

I feel like you're playing games again,

00:31:53

and it's probably just straight up 4.0 as you nod at me.

00:31:57

Are you giving things away?

00:31:58

I totally am playing games with you.

00:31:59

Totally are.

00:32:00

This is kind of cruel.

00:32:02

Why did I agree to this?

00:32:05

Why?

00:32:06

'Cause this is gonna be so fun to listen to.

00:32:09

(laughs)

00:32:10

And it's very fun to watch.

00:32:12

Hey, at least I'm talking out loud,

00:32:15

or thinking out loud.

00:32:16

This could be really weird if I just thought to myself.

00:32:19

I'm thinking,

00:32:22

what am I thinking?

00:32:23

I'm thinking it could be all of these.

00:32:25

I don't think it's 4.2.

00:32:26

I think it's one of the other three,

00:32:29

so 394041.

00:32:32

But where do I go with that?

00:32:35

I don't know.

00:32:37

I think I'm gonna say 3.9.

00:32:38

'Cause I'm kinda just guessing here.

00:32:42

All right.

00:32:43

'Cause just from what I remember seeing,

00:32:45

like overall banks of ratings,

00:32:48

it feels like it's a little bit below four.

00:32:52

But that's kinda just guessing.

00:32:55

'Cause memory with this sort of thing is relative.

00:32:58

So I'm gonna say 3.9.

00:33:00

All right.

00:33:02

That is incorrect.

00:33:04

Yeah, I can't see it.

00:33:05

The correct answer,

00:33:06

I thought you were gonna get it, was 4.1.

00:33:09

Yeah, I could see it.

00:33:12

I didn't think you would pick 4.0.

00:33:14

Like, I don't think it would be dead on, but.

00:33:17

Now, interestingly, I tabulated the average

00:33:22

for both you and myself with our ratings.

00:33:25

And they both came to 4.1.

00:33:28

Really? Interesting.

00:33:29

Yes.

00:33:30

But who has bonus question?

00:33:33

Who has the higher total point value

00:33:38

from all of the ratings?

00:33:39

You or me?

00:33:40

Me.

00:33:42

Correct.

00:33:43

I feel like I tend to be a little more generous

00:33:45

with book ratings.

00:33:47

It's really close.

00:33:48

You have 400 total points.

00:33:50

I'm at 397.5.

00:33:53

Well, that's like almost this.

00:33:55

That's like no statistical difference there.

00:33:57

Exactly, which is why it's the same 4.1.

00:33:59

Which is why I threw that question on there.

00:34:01

I thought that was kinda interesting

00:34:02

that we both have like the same statistical average

00:34:06

for the ratings that we give books.

00:34:08

That is interesting.

00:34:08

And we were so close.

00:34:10

Fascinating.

00:34:13

All right, last question that I have for you

00:34:18

before we get into the rating fixing scheme of 2020.

00:34:23

Yeah.

00:34:25

(laughs)

00:34:27

How many double five star books have there been?

00:34:31

Ooh.

00:34:32

A, nine, B, 10, C, 11, or D, 12?

00:34:37

I will just have to straight up guess on this.

00:34:43

I think it's probably 12,

00:34:45

'cause I feel like we've had quite a few.

00:34:46

But that's, it just has to be a straight up guess,

00:34:51

'cause there's enough of them

00:34:52

that I'm not gonna go through and come up with them.

00:34:55

If you had said like five or nine or 18,

00:34:59

like I could probably try to get there,

00:35:01

but because you're putting them so close together,

00:35:02

it's just kinda guessing.

00:35:04

So I'd say 12.

00:35:05

All right, so 12 out of 98.

00:35:08

When we do a book, there is a 12.2% chance

00:35:13

that we will both rate it five stars.

00:35:15

Sure, sure.

00:35:17

Seems kinda high.

00:35:18

That is correct.

00:35:19

Is it nice?

00:35:20

Yep.

00:35:22

Nice job.

00:35:23

Now I have a list of all of the double five star books.

00:35:27

See, I need to stop talking my way through it,

00:35:30

'cause I talk myself out of answers.

00:35:31

Just straight up guess.

00:35:32

Since we have 11 questions,

00:35:37

and you are currently at five points,

00:35:42

I will give you a bonus point

00:35:44

for each double five star book that you can name.

00:35:47

Ooh, okay.

00:35:50

Well, I know we did at the very beginning

00:35:51

with getting things done.

00:35:52

So that one I know,

00:35:56

man search for meaning.

00:35:57

I think we did it.

00:36:00

We had more early on, I think.

00:36:03

Essentialism?

00:36:07

I would say, did we do double fives on principles?

00:36:11

I'm kinda cheating in that I'm looking at the books.

00:36:16

Is that bad?

00:36:17

Should I not do that?

00:36:19

No, I go for it.

00:36:20

I'm pretty sure we did with second mountain.

00:36:23

Hyperfocus.

00:36:25

What else did we do here?

00:36:27

We didn't do that one for Bookworm.

00:36:30

40x?

00:36:34

Did we do double fives on that one?

00:36:36

I feel like there are some things

00:36:37

we probably complained about on that one,

00:36:39

so probably not.

00:36:40

All right, so don't put that one on the list?

00:36:43

No.

00:36:44

Okay.

00:36:46

We didn't with flow when we thought we would.

00:36:49

The obstacle is the way.

00:36:52

Start with why?

00:36:55

I feel like I'm gonna give you more than 12.

00:36:59

(laughs)

00:37:00

I'm gonna cut you off at 12.

00:37:02

Okay, I have the obstacles the way,

00:37:04

start with why?

00:37:05

That sounded like a question.

00:37:06

Do you want that one on the list?

00:37:07

No.

00:37:09

Okay.

00:37:10

The one thing.

00:37:10

I know the four hour work week didn't make it.

00:37:15

Oh, let's see.

00:37:18

What else?

00:37:19

You're at seven, so you got five more.

00:37:21

Oh, geez.

00:37:22

(laughs)

00:37:26

It has to be doubles.

00:37:28

There was...

00:37:31

I can't see it.

00:37:34

I know I can think of it.

00:37:35

Make time.

00:37:39

I was like, wait, what did we rate the productivity project?

00:37:45

All right.

00:37:45

(imitates drumming)

00:37:49

We did not do paid to think.

00:37:51

I know that.

00:37:52

That was fun.

00:37:53

I can't think of any more though.

00:37:57

You want me to read back your list so far?

00:38:00

Sure.

00:38:01

I got GTD, Man Search for Meeting.

00:38:03

Essentialism, Second Mountain, Hyper Focus, Obstacles the Way,

00:38:08

the one thing and make time.

00:38:10

Essentialism.

00:38:12

Said that one.

00:38:14

Managing oneself.

00:38:16

That sounded like a question again.

00:38:17

Is that on the list?

00:38:18

(laughs)

00:38:20

Yeah, I put them both on the list.

00:38:22

Extreme ownership.

00:38:24

Did we just do...

00:38:28

So with the most recent Ryan Holiday book,

00:38:31

I can't think of the name of it right now.

00:38:33

Why can I not think?

00:38:34

Stillness is the key.

00:38:35

Oh, atomic habits.

00:38:38

So stillness is the key.

00:38:41

Atomic habits and deep work.

00:38:43

Am I over 12 yet?

00:38:46

You are, but I'll allow it.

00:38:47

(laughs)

00:38:48

Okay.

00:38:49

All right, I'll quit.

00:38:50

All right, stillness is the key.

00:38:53

Atomic habits and deep work, you said?

00:38:55

Yeah.

00:38:56

Don't need to pull one off.

00:38:58

Sure.

00:39:00

Which one you want to pull off?

00:39:02

Let's pull off essentialism.

00:39:04

All right, so here's your list.

00:39:07

Okay.

00:39:08

GTD, Manstarch for Meaning, Second Mountain, Hyper Focus,

00:39:11

Obstacles the Way, the One Thing,

00:39:13

Managing oneself, Make Time, Extreme Ownership,

00:39:15

Stillness is the key.

00:39:16

Atomic habits and deep work.

00:39:18

That's your 12, right?

00:39:21

I'll go with that.

00:39:22

I don't know what I would change.

00:39:25

All right, so let me just do these one at a time, okay?

00:39:29

The part of me thinks 12-week years on there,

00:39:32

but I don't know what I would change it out.

00:39:35

All right, so the first one was GTD.

00:39:39

That is incorrect.

00:39:41

You gave it 5.0, I gave it 4.0.

00:39:43

Oh, I was thinking we doubled up right at the beginning.

00:39:47

Nope.

00:39:49

Well, we did, but not for that book.

00:39:52

The second book we covered was The Willpower Instinct

00:39:56

by Kelly McMonigal, and we both gave that five stars.

00:40:00

Got it, okay.

00:40:02

All right, the next one you mentioned

00:40:03

was Man Search for Meaning, and that was indeed

00:40:08

a five star book that was episode 44.

00:40:13

Okay.

00:40:15

Then you said Second Mountain.

00:40:17

All right, now Second Mountain was not on the list.

00:40:23

I'm trying to find that specific episode

00:40:27

and see what the final score was for that.

00:40:32

All right, so Second Mountain,

00:40:36

we actually both gave 4.5.

00:40:39

Oh, that was close.

00:40:42

Yep, so it was a silver book.

00:40:43

That's a bronze book.

00:40:45

A silver would be a 4.5 and a five.

00:40:48

Oh, right, right, right, right.

00:40:50

Okay, got it.

00:40:52

All right, the next one that you said

00:40:55

was Hyper Focus by Chris Bailey.

00:40:59

Yep.

00:41:00

That is incorrect.

00:41:02

That was also a double 4.5.

00:41:05

Okay.

00:41:07

The next one you said was The Obstacle is the Way.

00:41:10

That one didn't even make the podium.

00:41:13

(laughs)

00:41:15

I gave that a 5.0.

00:41:16

You gave that a 4.0.

00:41:18

Okay.

00:41:20

Which is kind of interesting,

00:41:21

and why we're gonna get into what we're gonna do next

00:41:23

is like, we think back on these books

00:41:27

and we're like, why did I give it that rating?

00:41:29

Yep, it's so true.

00:41:31

So that's interesting.

00:41:34

And then the one thing, let's see, where was that one?

00:41:38

All right, that was episode 60.

00:41:44

And that one also didn't make the podium

00:41:47

because I gave it five stars and you gave it four.

00:41:51

See, I'm like putting your ratings up there.

00:41:54

Yeah. (laughs)

00:41:55

Which is weird.

00:41:57

Don't you love how memory works?

00:41:59

Right.

00:42:00

I think this is like it on display or lack thereof.

00:42:04

(laughs)

00:42:05

You did pull out Managing One's Self,

00:42:08

which I didn't even remember going through that book

00:42:10

until I started compiling this list.

00:42:12

Yeah.

00:42:13

But we did both give that one five stars.

00:42:15

So nice job picking that one.

00:42:17

That was episode 13.

00:42:19

Whoo-hoo-hoo.

00:42:20

The next one you said was Make Time

00:42:24

by Jake Knapp and John Zorotsky.

00:42:26

That was episode 72.

00:42:28

That was also a five star book.

00:42:30

So nice job on that one.

00:42:31

You said Extreme Ownership, that was episode 66.

00:42:36

That was a double five star.

00:42:38

Whoo-hoo-hoo.

00:42:39

Stillness is the key.

00:42:41

Episode 95, that was a recent one.

00:42:43

That was also a double five star.

00:42:46

So you got better as we went along here.

00:42:49

You're making me feel better now.

00:42:51

(laughs)

00:42:52

Then you mentioned Atomic Habits,

00:42:56

which was episode 63.

00:42:58

That was also a five star book.

00:43:01

And the last one you snuck on that list was Deep Work,

00:43:05

episode seven, that was also a double five star book.

00:43:08

So you got one, two, three, four, five, six,

00:43:11

seven out of 12 for this bonus round,

00:43:18

which puts you at eight, nine, 10, 11, 12 total points.

00:43:23

- Out of 11.

00:43:26

- Yeah, it's a good job, you aced it.

00:43:27

(laughs)

00:43:30

- Thanks for the extra credit.

00:43:31

I'd been screwed with that.

00:43:33

(laughs)

00:43:35

- You wanna know the other five star books

00:43:36

that we did not mention here?

00:43:38

- Yes, what I miss.

00:43:40

- All right, so I mentioned the willpower instinct,

00:43:41

which was episode two.

00:43:43

Episode 18, Decisive by Chip and Dan Heath,

00:43:47

was a double five star book.

00:43:49

Principles, episode 80, which you asked as a question.

00:43:54

I know you were mulling that out

00:43:56

as you were thinking out loud,

00:43:58

but that was a double five star book.

00:44:00

- That was because we,

00:44:02

like it was a reread for me when we did it for bookworm.

00:44:05

- Yep.

00:44:06

- And I think there's only been a couple,

00:44:09

maybe three where I've done a reread for 'em.

00:44:12

- Sure.

00:44:13

- And I thought in my head,

00:44:14

every time I've done a reread,

00:44:16

I didn't put it at a five.

00:44:18

- Got it.

00:44:19

- That's what is in my head.

00:44:20

So that's why I backed off of that one,

00:44:22

but I shouldn't have, obviously.

00:44:24

- That makes sense. (laughs)

00:44:26

It's a good book, though.

00:44:28

- Yep.

00:44:28

- The others were episode 86, The Art of Gathering.

00:44:32

And episode 94 Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg.

00:44:38

So two of the 12 five star books were habit books.

00:44:45

(laughs)

00:44:47

- Yep.

00:44:48

- I think two out of the three that we've read,

00:44:49

'cause the other one was the power--

00:44:51

- We get to make time in there and--

00:44:53

- Yeah, that's true, that's true.

00:44:55

Explicitly habit books, I should say,

00:44:56

because the other big one we covered was

00:44:58

the power of Habit by Charles Duhig,

00:45:00

which neither of us liked very much.

00:45:02

- Right, yeah.

00:45:03

And I think it was because we read it after

00:45:06

one of the others, I think.

00:45:09

- Right.

00:45:10

So-- - And we should've done it before.

00:45:12

- So this last question, this is really at the heart

00:45:16

of the original idea that I floated to you

00:45:18

several weeks ago.

00:45:20

So thank you for humoring me and being the guinea pig

00:45:23

for the quiz. - Yep.

00:45:25

- I thought this was great, though.

00:45:26

I hope other people enjoyed this.

00:45:28

- That's a trip down memory lane, for sure.

00:45:32

- Yep. - Interesting.

00:45:33

- But this is the original thing

00:45:35

that got me thinking was I had that question to my head,

00:45:37

how many double five star books have we had on bookworms?

00:45:41

- Sure. - Turns out there's 12.

00:45:44

I've also been thinking a lot about,

00:45:46

as I've been collecting this stuff

00:45:48

and putting these things into Rome Research.

00:45:52

(bell dings)

00:45:54

(laughs)

00:45:55

I have audio of all the files,

00:45:56

I've got the ratings, all my notes and everything.

00:46:00

And as I was putting those in,

00:46:01

it was interesting to me what I rated

00:46:03

some of these older books.

00:46:04

So I wanted to take a trip down memory lane,

00:46:08

we did the quiz at the first part of this,

00:46:09

and then the next part, we are going to go in and change

00:46:14

up to five ratings in the canonical bookworm rating.

00:46:20

So I'm gonna take notes on this spreadsheet

00:46:25

that I've got right here,

00:46:26

and then I'm gonna go back and update the actual website.

00:46:29

So I apologize to whoever put that original graph together,

00:46:32

that's about to change. (laughs)

00:46:35

But this will be fun.

00:46:37

So you can adjust it up or down,

00:46:39

there are no limitations,

00:46:41

but we're gonna go back and forth.

00:46:43

And since I made you take the quiz,

00:46:46

I will also let you go first for changing the ratings,

00:46:48

if you'd like.

00:46:49

- Okay, thanks for that.

00:46:52

'Cause then I get like free rein to do what I want.

00:46:55

(laughs)

00:46:56

So thanks for that.

00:46:57

I think for the first one that I would change,

00:47:00

all right, 'cause I've spent a little bit of time

00:47:03

thinking this through and trying to like, okay,

00:47:06

'cause what I wanted to do is take a look at,

00:47:09

like for me, most of these are up.

00:47:11

And it's because of longevity in my thinking,

00:47:15

like the ones that have had a long-term impact,

00:47:17

but when we read them, I didn't rate them very well.

00:47:21

And the first of those I might be stealing from you

00:47:25

is "How to Read a Book" by Mortimer Adler.

00:47:31

And we originally rated this,

00:47:34

we both rated it at 4.0.

00:47:36

And to me, because of the longevity of this,

00:47:39

I think I need to put it at five.

00:47:42

Because, here's why,

00:47:44

every time I pick up a book,

00:47:47

it doesn't matter if it's fiction,

00:47:49

it doesn't matter if it's non-fiction,

00:47:50

if it's poetry, if it's philosophy, it doesn't, the Bible,

00:47:53

it doesn't matter what I pick up,

00:47:55

that book comes back to me in the back of my head.

00:47:59

And the process of how you go through a book,

00:48:01

like for example, here's a great example,

00:48:03

I get a new non-fiction book.

00:48:06

If you're watching the video,

00:48:07

I'm pointing at a stack of books behind me.

00:48:08

If you're picking up a new one,

00:48:11

what I have a tendency to do,

00:48:12

because of reading "How to Read a Book",

00:48:14

I will look at the cover, I'll flip it over,

00:48:18

read the back, I'll read the table of contents,

00:48:20

I'll kind of flip through it,

00:48:21

see what kind of graphs and stuff,

00:48:22

and if there aren't any pictures,

00:48:24

read some of the chapter titles,

00:48:26

try to get a feel for what some of the terminology

00:48:30

that they're using in the book.

00:48:32

That sort of thing I never used to do.

00:48:35

And I feel like I get a much better read on a book

00:48:41

if I go through that process.

00:48:45

But that's all because of Adler's book here.

00:48:49

So I feel like it has to go up.

00:48:51

And that's easily the number one book

00:48:54

that I find myself referencing.

00:48:57

When I thought, when we read it,

00:48:59

that like, eh, it's okay.

00:49:02

So it needs to go up, my opinion.

00:49:06

Does it deal it from you?

00:49:08

- Well, there's both your ratings and my ratings,

00:49:11

so not necessarily.

00:49:12

- Oh, that's true, that's true as you can take it too.

00:49:15

- But my first pick is not going to be,

00:49:20

how to read a book, I understand the reasoning behind it

00:49:22

and I agree with your reasoning

00:49:24

for bumping that up to a 5.0.

00:49:27

I am going to go to episode 39,

00:49:30

Mindset by Carol Dweck,

00:49:32

which is already in the silver tier

00:49:34

because you rated it 5.0 and I rated it 4.5.

00:49:37

I am going to change my rating from 4.5 to 5.0,

00:49:42

because this book has really been influential

00:49:47

and this is probably the book that I refer back to the most

00:49:51

out of anything that we have read.

00:49:53

And I really enjoyed it when we went through it,

00:49:55

which is why it's a silver book currently.

00:49:58

But it deserves gold medal status,

00:50:01

especially compared to some of the other books

00:50:03

that are on the gold medal list.

00:50:04

- Sure.

00:50:05

- Which maybe we'll take care of that in a little bit too,

00:50:07

but it's my first pick, Mindset, I'm changing that to 5.0.

00:50:12

So that's another double five book.

00:50:16

- Sure.

00:50:17

All right, so another one I'm going to change,

00:50:19

I'm going to send this one down.

00:50:21

So this may help your gold status book and change that.

00:50:28

The other way.

00:50:29

Make time.

00:50:31

I think needs to be dethroned.

00:50:35

'Cause it's a double five oh right now.

00:50:37

And I'll be honest with you, it was one of those books

00:50:43

that when you read it, it can be quite motivating

00:50:47

and can give you a lot of like small ideas.

00:50:50

I have referenced that book exactly zero times.

00:50:54

- Really interesting.

00:50:55

- Yeah, I don't pull that thing up at all.

00:50:59

And whenever I, like when I'm looking for some

00:51:03

of that motivation or just trying to reference books

00:51:07

about like time management and that sort of thing,

00:51:12

I'll tend to pull out like 168 hours

00:51:15

or one of the habit books.

00:51:17

I will, I'll never pull out make time.

00:51:19

Like it doesn't even cross my mind

00:51:21

that that's something I should go look at.

00:51:23

So I need to dethron it.

00:51:25

I'm not gonna take it very far.

00:51:26

I'll just put it at 4.5.

00:51:28

- Okay.

00:51:29

- But I don't think it, for me,

00:51:31

I don't think it qualifies as a five oh anymore.

00:51:34

- Sure, that's really the cool thing

00:51:36

about thinking about all of these

00:51:37

is you have a different feeling to awful otters point.

00:51:41

It's super interesting.

00:51:42

Some books are better in hindsight

00:51:43

and some are worse.

00:51:44

- Right.

00:51:45

- Make time specifically is interesting to me

00:51:47

because I referenced that one all the time.

00:51:50

- Do you?

00:51:50

- Yeah.

00:51:51

- Interesting.

00:51:52

Yeah, I've never pulled it off the shelf once.

00:51:53

- I have quoted that book.

00:51:54

I think three separate times

00:51:55

in my mindfulness Monday stuff.

00:51:57

- Yeah.

00:51:58

Interesting.

00:52:00

- So two very different paths

00:52:03

from the recording data on that one

00:52:06

which is what's a little bit surprising to me.

00:52:08

But that's cool.

00:52:09

All right, so you're putting that at 4.5.

00:52:11

- Yep.

00:52:12

- All right.

00:52:13

And then my second one,

00:52:16

man, there's so many I wanna do.

00:52:20

And I'm trying to decide the order here.

00:52:22

I've got one that I'm gonna keep

00:52:24

for a little bit of a surprise later, I think.

00:52:27

I'm gonna go back to episode 12,

00:52:31

The Innovators Dilemma by Morton Christensen.

00:52:34

- Ooh.

00:52:35

Okay.

00:52:36

- At the time, I rated this 3.5

00:52:39

and you rated it 3.0.

00:52:41

- Yep.

00:52:42

- And I think everything I said in that episode

00:52:45

I would still stand by that it reads

00:52:48

like a college textbook and it's super dry and boring.

00:52:52

But looking back, I learned so much from that book.

00:52:56

That is the stereotypical non-fiction book

00:53:00

that you don't wanna go through

00:53:01

but you force yourself to go through it.

00:53:03

It's like eating your vegetables

00:53:04

and then like it changes the way that you think about things.

00:53:07

I remember the example they had of Kodak

00:53:10

in that one about the digital cameras.

00:53:13

There was the stories about the steel.

00:53:16

I mean, there's so many business lessons

00:53:17

which are fascinating to me now

00:53:19

that I've got some space

00:53:20

for having to go through that book itself.

00:53:23

And I know he passed away not too long ago.

00:53:26

I kinda wanna go back and read something else by him now.

00:53:29

It's kinda like, I understand now why he was such a big deal

00:53:34

because of that stuff really, really stuck with me.

00:53:37

- Sure.

00:53:38

- And yeah, it was distasteful the first time

00:53:39

that we went through it.

00:53:40

But I kinda think, you know,

00:53:42

maybe I've just grown up a little bit.

00:53:44

Since we read that one, my perspective has changed

00:53:47

a little bit.

00:53:49

But that stuff is fascinating to me now.

00:53:51

Like one of my favorite podcasts I'm listening to,

00:53:53

I'm paying for the Dithering podcast

00:53:55

that Ben Thompson and John Gruber do.

00:53:58

And it's really fascinating to hear them go back

00:54:00

and forth on different company perspective stuff.

00:54:03

And that reminds me a lot of like that book,

00:54:06

The Innovators Dilemma by Martin Christensen.

00:54:08

I feel like, you know,

00:54:09

if he were to join in a conversation,

00:54:11

that's kinda what it would sound like.

00:54:14

So it makes me wanna go back and give him another shot.

00:54:17

So I'm gonna bump that up from 3.5 to 4.5.

00:54:22

- Sure.

00:54:23

All right.

00:54:24

What are we on?

00:54:26

Choice number three now?

00:54:27

- Yep.

00:54:28

- I'm gonna go back to episode 26.

00:54:31

This is The Sleep Revolution by Ariana Huffington.

00:54:37

We originally, you rated it at 4.5.

00:54:40

I rated it at 4.0.

00:54:43

And the odd thing about that book,

00:54:47

yes, it's about sleep,

00:54:49

but my health has been very different

00:54:52

since we read that book.

00:54:54

So when we first read that,

00:54:57

I was 100% healthy at the time, at least in theory.

00:55:02

And since then, I contracted Lyme disease.

00:55:08

I beat Lyme disease, have a carryover mold infection

00:55:11

and I'm now on the out tick side of a mold infection,

00:55:14

which theory is my last step.

00:55:17

But that's been almost a two year,

00:55:18

well, it has been a two year process.

00:55:20

So what I have learned in the span of that time period

00:55:25

is that the number one way I've been healing

00:55:31

is with like some herbal supplement mechanisms.

00:55:35

The second is sleep.

00:55:36

So those two pieces have been 95% of my healing process.

00:55:44

And the interesting thing about it is

00:55:47

that I've learned that the sleep side of it

00:55:49

helps all the other pieces.

00:55:52

So the other pieces actually don't really work

00:55:54

without the sleep piece.

00:55:55

So maybe sleep's the most important.

00:55:57

I've gone back over the last two years.

00:56:00

I've referenced that book probably at least every month

00:56:03

in the last two years and have continually found things in it

00:56:08

that show me like I'm not doing things well.

00:56:11

And I need to improve different areas

00:56:13

and such and I've realized just how important that is.

00:56:17

You don't really notice that if you really pay attention to me,

00:56:19

I always get these bags under my eyes.

00:56:21

My physique just does that.

00:56:23

Whether I slept well or not,

00:56:25

I always have bags under my eyes and it's...

00:56:27

Me too.

00:56:28

- Madening.

00:56:29

- Struggle is real.

00:56:31

- People pointed out all the times,

00:56:32

like I'm not putting on makeup,

00:56:33

but I slept nine hours last night, I promise.

00:56:37

- That's why I wear glasses all the time instead of contacts

00:56:39

'cause I got the same thing.

00:56:40

- I know, I have really debated doing like the whole blue light

00:56:44

glasses thing just to help cover some of that up, but details.

00:56:48

Anyway, what I'm getting at is the sleep revolution,

00:56:51

I feel like needs to be a 5.0 book for me.

00:56:54

That is one that I originally rated it 4.0,

00:56:56

you have it at 4.5, but I think it needs to be a 5.0 for me

00:56:59

because it's become such a huge, like a reference book,

00:57:03

but also such an important concept

00:57:06

and the material of it is super important to me.

00:57:09

So that one needs to go up.

00:57:12

- Cool, so that is now a silver metal book.

00:57:17

- Mm-hmm, yeah, where I think it should be.

00:57:20

- Cool.

00:57:21

- All right, I need to be a little mean now,

00:57:24

dethron something.

00:57:25

- Oh, you're gonna up rate the art of asking?

00:57:29

- Ah, no.

00:57:31

(laughing)

00:57:33

At least I got a hesitation.

00:57:35

(laughing)

00:57:36

- So looking through the list of double 5 star books,

00:57:40

- Yeah.

00:57:41

- I feel like there's one on there

00:57:42

that really just does not deserve to be there,

00:57:47

and that is the willpower instinct.

00:57:50

And maybe I need to go back and read that book again

00:57:54

in order for it to impact me the same way,

00:57:56

but I think my thought process on the whole concept

00:58:00

of willpower has changed a little bit

00:58:03

since I read that book.

00:58:04

I remember reading that book and thinking,

00:58:06

oh, this is the secret to all self improvement.

00:58:10

If I just manage my willpower, this is gonna be easy.

00:58:13

But everybody knows, like that's a piece of it,

00:58:16

and that can be a really big discovery

00:58:18

when you come across it and you realize that,

00:58:20

yeah, all the stupid decisions that you're forcing yourself

00:58:22

to make, that really does take a toll

00:58:24

on your mental ability,

00:58:25

and so you will find yourself not being able to do

00:58:27

the things you really wanna do later on in the day.

00:58:30

But I also kinda think to a certain degree

00:58:33

willpower doesn't really matter anymore.

00:58:36

(laughs)

00:58:37

Like it's a real thing, but it's not the one thing

00:58:40

that is going to determine whether you're successful

00:58:43

in implementing the habits that you wanna create.

00:58:46

I feel like motivation is more important

00:58:51

than willpower in a lot of instances,

00:58:54

and I also feel that motivation can be created.

00:58:58

This is an extreme example, but as a parent,

00:59:02

if your kids are in danger,

00:59:04

it doesn't matter how much willpower you have left,

00:59:07

you all of a sudden have the motivation

00:59:10

to save them from physical harm.

00:59:13

I mean, you hear stories about these little old ladies

00:59:17

who, their kid is trapped under a car

00:59:18

and they summon the strength, like lift the car off the kid.

00:59:21

That has nothing to do with willpower,

00:59:23

physical strength that's totally adrenaline and motivation

00:59:25

like I gotta save my kid.

00:59:27

And obviously you don't wanna live in that heightened state

00:59:31

fight versus flight all the time,

00:59:32

but I do think that you can kinda hack that a little bit

00:59:36

and you can create your own motivation to do things

00:59:38

and that's what a lot of like goal setting, fear setting,

00:59:42

whatever version of it you wanna consider,

00:59:45

that's what a lot of it is.

00:59:47

It's reminding yourself,

00:59:47

hey, you said you wanted to do this and this is why.

00:59:50

You know, whether you achieve that goal or not

00:59:53

has nothing to do with the amount of willpower

00:59:55

you're able to successfully manage.

00:59:57

'Cause I can also tell you that I can set up my systems

01:00:01

for peak efficiency in order to manage my own willpower

01:00:05

and I'm not the only one that's living in my house

01:00:08

at the moment, like working at home,

01:00:12

everybody's home all the time

01:00:13

when the middle is pandemic,

01:00:14

like things never go according to plan.

01:00:16

Everything is gonna get jacked up.

01:00:18

It's just how jacked up is it gonna get?

01:00:20

And at that point, you know,

01:00:21

what's the point in trying to control all these systems

01:00:24

and optimize the willpower

01:00:25

because you just gotta be flexible and go with the flow.

01:00:27

So I used to be that way

01:00:30

and I used to get really upset when someone would barge

01:00:32

into my office and hey, I wanna do this with you now, dad.

01:00:34

And I shared it on the puck.

01:00:36

It's like I've trained myself just to go with that

01:00:38

and go build the train tracker, do the puzzle

01:00:41

or shoot hoops or whatever.

01:00:43

That's way less stressful than getting upset

01:00:46

about how my perfect systems to manage my willpower

01:00:50

are now useless.

01:00:51

So I'm gonna bring this down from five stars,

01:00:56

which is what I originally headed at to 4.0.

01:00:58

I still think it's a good book,

01:01:00

but it is no longer on the podium.

01:01:02

- Sure.

01:01:04

Well, I'm gonna feel mean doing what I'm about to do then.

01:01:08

This is 4, right?

01:01:11

I'm on to 4.

01:01:12

- Yep.

01:01:13

- All right, let's go to episode 94.

01:01:15

Do I dare say what the book is?

01:01:18

I'm not, I'm just gonna say.

01:01:21

It's episode 94.

01:01:22

He's gonna go look now.

01:01:24

- I got the spreadsheet right here.

01:01:27

I'm just letting you talk.

01:01:28

(laughing)

01:01:30

- All right.

01:01:31

So episode 94 is tiny habits.

01:01:35

Currently a double 5.0 that needs dethroned, I think.

01:01:40

And I'm sorry to say that.

01:01:41

Because we've done enough of these habit

01:01:44

and routine based books that,

01:01:47

like that's where I feel like I'm spending

01:01:49

a lot of my re-rating time here.

01:01:53

Maybe I'm not entirely, but at least on two of them.

01:01:57

And it's because,

01:01:59

I feel like I've figured out which ones are better than the others,

01:02:03

from a longevity stance.

01:02:07

Not just a, in this moment, give me motivation to do a thing.

01:02:12

This is, if you want something that will stick with you

01:02:15

for a long time, I don't think tiny habits is it.

01:02:19

Yes, the concept is really good

01:02:20

of building really small habits

01:02:22

and letting those build into bigger ones.

01:02:25

I find myself referencing atomic habits

01:02:28

significantly more than that.

01:02:30

And this is partly why my wife throws a fit

01:02:32

'cause she really wants me to get rid of all the books.

01:02:35

And I always look up because these are all the bookworm books,

01:02:37

plus these.

01:02:38

- Blasphemy.

01:02:40

- I know, I know.

01:02:41

And I have a tendency to reference these books

01:02:46

on a regular basis.

01:02:47

Like certain ones, like if I'm struggling with motivation

01:02:51

or if I'm struggling with getting a routine

01:02:54

in a certain way built, like why is that?

01:02:56

And I'll go reference some of my notes

01:02:58

in the books themselves.

01:02:59

Whenever I have some form of like a habit

01:03:02

that I'm struggling to break or build,

01:03:06

I go to atomic habits every time to start.

01:03:10

Sometimes I then go to tiny habits,

01:03:13

sometimes I then go into the power of habit.

01:03:16

But I always start with atomic habits,

01:03:20

which makes me think I shouldn't have tiny habits

01:03:24

at the same level as atomic habits.

01:03:27

So I don't wanna pull it far off.

01:03:29

So I'm just gonna move it from 50 to 4.5.

01:03:32

So I don't think it needs to come that far off.

01:03:34

But I do think like I just like,

01:03:36

I want atomic habits slightly above it.

01:03:39

That has like, it's one of those,

01:03:42

I would rather raise the rating on atomic habits,

01:03:44

but I can't.

01:03:45

(laughing)

01:03:48

So I need to back this one off.

01:03:50

So. - All right.

01:03:51

There's my thought process.

01:03:52

- Okay, well, to be fair,

01:03:54

there were two habits books which were both 5.0s.

01:03:57

And I had the same thought,

01:03:58

I'm like, these shouldn't both be 5.0s.

01:04:00

- Yeah. - Although tiny habits

01:04:02

is my favorite.

01:04:03

So I'm tempted to do it when atomic habits,

01:04:07

which is kind of interesting again,

01:04:08

which books really impact us as we get further from them.

01:04:12

My implementation of it though was a little bit different,

01:04:17

and maybe it was just the timing,

01:04:18

because I was reading tiny habits

01:04:20

as I was working on the habits course for the sweet setup.

01:04:24

And I feel like there's a lot more to grab onto

01:04:27

from tiny habits in terms of teaching people

01:04:30

how to implement successful habits

01:04:32

than the James Clear book.

01:04:34

Like the four laws that he talks about,

01:04:36

that provides a solid framework for the rest of the book.

01:04:39

And it sounds really good,

01:04:41

but you, my opinion, going through that book,

01:04:44

you feel like this guy's really smart,

01:04:46

he's got this figured out.

01:04:47

And I know what to do, but I'm not sure I can do it.

01:04:50

Whereas BJ Fogg's book, it's like,

01:04:52

oh, this is all emotional behavior driven stuff.

01:04:55

And if I just put the right triggers in place,

01:04:57

then I can control this.

01:05:00

I feel like that one gives beginners

01:05:02

a little bit more hope.

01:05:04

But they're both really good.

01:05:06

And I agree, I agree,

01:05:09

there should just be one of those on the list.

01:05:12

I'm not gonna demote to atomic habits,

01:05:13

so I'm gonna leave that one.

01:05:15

- Thank you. - There's a different book

01:05:16

that I want to demote because I was going through

01:05:18

and highlighting all the gold, silver and bronze books.

01:05:21

There's a lot of them that just missed

01:05:23

that were really, really good.

01:05:25

But there's one on this list that I'm like,

01:05:27

why is this on here?

01:05:30

- Yeah. - And that is the question

01:05:33

behind the question.

01:05:34

Do you remember this book?

01:05:35

- I remember the book, but I,

01:05:39

if I were to sit down right now

01:05:41

and try to explain it to you, it would be vague.

01:05:45

- Exactly, exactly.

01:05:48

So this was episode 17 and we both gave it

01:05:51

four and a half stars.

01:05:52

So it is a bronze metal book right now.

01:05:55

As I was going through this, I'm like,

01:05:57

that cannot be.

01:05:58

When we are looking at things like,

01:06:01

the obstacle is the way, the war of art,

01:06:04

not being on this list,

01:06:07

how can the question behind the question be there?

01:06:11

And I don't really have anything really to say

01:06:14

about this book other than looking at the other ones.

01:06:17

It's kind of like the Sesame Street things.

01:06:19

One of these things is not like the others.

01:06:22

One of these things just doesn't belong

01:06:23

and that is the question behind the question.

01:06:25

- Sure.

01:06:26

- So I also remember this being a very short book

01:06:30

and that's not necessarily a bad thing,

01:06:32

but the further we get along with Bookworm,

01:06:34

the more I realize that this book

01:06:35

just really doesn't fit the standard Bookworm format.

01:06:41

And that's not necessarily a good or a bad thing,

01:06:44

but I think the ratings should take that into consideration.

01:06:47

So when we're making a list of the very best

01:06:50

Bookworm books of all time, how does this even qualify?

01:06:53

You know, so I wanna dock it, you know,

01:06:55

a half a point for me,

01:06:57

not remembering anything from the book basically.

01:06:59

And another half a point for it just being

01:07:02

an odd ball of a book.

01:07:03

And I'm glad that we cover those sometimes,

01:07:06

but again, this just should not be on the podium.

01:07:08

So we both give it 4.5.

01:07:09

I don't change mine from 4.5 to 3.5.

01:07:13

- Okay.

01:07:13

- There are a lot of other books on this list

01:07:15

that I've rated 4.0, which looking back,

01:07:17

I think these are better books

01:07:18

than question behind the question.

01:07:21

- Yeah.

01:07:22

All right, so I'm stepping into my last, right?

01:07:24

We got to do five.

01:07:26

- Five official ones.

01:07:27

I'd be willing to go an extra bonus round

01:07:29

if you have another one you wanna change.

01:07:32

- I don't know if I do.

01:07:34

The other one that I feel like should be like

01:07:38

up in that silver or not silver,

01:07:40

but bronze status that's not.

01:07:42

And it has to do with like how,

01:07:44

again, how often I find myself reflecting on the content

01:07:48

or pulling the book out itself.

01:07:51

And this has to go all the way back to episode three,

01:07:55

The War of Art by Stephen Pressfield.

01:07:59

And this is where this concept of resistance comes in

01:08:06

and you rated it 4.5, I rated it 4.0.

01:08:10

And I don't think I'm gonna put it at five,

01:08:14

but I'll put it at 4.5 simply because I think it needs

01:08:17

to get up in that top level of books,

01:08:20

like it needs to get up to those.

01:08:22

So I think that's where it needs to be.

01:08:25

And again, this is because so much of what I do,

01:08:29

whether it's creating content or writing code

01:08:33

or running events,

01:08:35

those are all very creative endeavors.

01:08:38

And although I tend to be fairly particular

01:08:43

with how I define art,

01:08:45

the translation of those concepts work really well outside.

01:08:50

The world of art,

01:08:52

even if you're considering the world of writing

01:08:55

to be artwork.

01:08:56

So I think that to me needs to come up into

01:09:01

like level three of books,

01:09:03

if you wanna call it that bronze level,

01:09:05

as you're calling it.

01:09:06

So I think it needs to come up there

01:09:08

just because like the concepts there are very core

01:09:11

to the making of a thing on a regular basis.

01:09:15

It's super important.

01:09:17

So I look at that one a lot.

01:09:19

- Sure.

01:09:20

Nice.

01:09:22

And that is kinda to my point,

01:09:23

like question behind the question

01:09:25

doesn't deserve to be there.

01:09:26

- Yeah, it shouldn't be there.

01:09:28

- Because that one is not higher

01:09:30

than the world of art, it shouldn't be.

01:09:34

- I get you.

01:09:36

Cool, all right, my last one.

01:09:38

And this is the one I'm expecting a reaction from you.

01:09:43

- Okay.

01:09:44

- Episode 68.

01:09:46

How to Take Smart Notes by Sankay Arrens.

01:09:52

- Oh my word.

01:09:53

- I am bumping this to 4.5.

01:09:56

I recently reread this

01:09:58

and it was a totally different book to me this time.

01:10:03

In the context of me rereading it

01:10:04

was my obsession with Rome research.

01:10:08

There it is.

01:10:09

I was trying to figure out

01:10:12

how I could possibly capture this system

01:10:16

that he's talking about

01:10:17

in a way that would actually work for me.

01:10:19

And I know you don't have to use an app.

01:10:22

You've got an analog Zetelcast and Notecard box thing

01:10:27

that you made.

01:10:29

I have never seen anyone use one of those successfully.

01:10:33

If it's working for you, that's cool.

01:10:35

But there's no way that I would be able to do that.

01:10:38

And when I read that book the first time,

01:10:40

I had the same reaction when he was describing the system.

01:10:45

I'm like, well, that sounds cool,

01:10:47

but there is no way that I'd be able to do that.

01:10:50

Rome research has allowed me to do that.

01:10:54

And I can't even really explain

01:10:57

what the lynch pin is to that whole system working.

01:11:02

But it helps me to think,

01:11:06

it helps me to make the connections.

01:11:07

I guess there's a term for this.

01:11:08

It's like digital gardening,

01:11:10

which I don't understand at all,

01:11:11

but it's like you go in there

01:11:12

and you just kind of follow the rabbit trails

01:11:14

and you clean things up

01:11:16

and you figure out the connections

01:11:17

and then you kind of get inspired.

01:11:20

And then there's the thing that you're going to write about.

01:11:23

I've seen that happen a lot for me recently

01:11:26

and I'm not even to the point where everything is in there.

01:11:29

- Sure.

01:11:30

- I do have all my sermon notes and stuff in there.

01:11:32

And that's been really cool I've mentioned before.

01:11:34

Like if that's the only thing that I got out of the app,

01:11:36

it's probably still worth it for me.

01:11:38

But I totally see how this influences all of the things

01:11:43

that I would be writing

01:11:45

and how it makes me a better writer.

01:11:48

And so it's already producing fruit

01:11:50

and make it easier for the stuff that I have to write

01:11:52

for the sweet set up

01:11:53

'cause I have thoughts on pages for,

01:11:55

different things that happen,

01:11:57

habits, goals, productivity, all that kind of stuff.

01:12:00

I've got all these quotes that I collect

01:12:01

and it's easy to find them and use them in different things.

01:12:04

So it's influenced not only in my writing at the sweet setup,

01:12:06

it's influenced like my speech writing for Toastmasters.

01:12:09

I have no doubt this is going to bleed over

01:12:10

into every other area of my life

01:12:12

and every other thing that I write.

01:12:14

But I'm in this for the long haul.

01:12:17

And I think that this book,

01:12:20

if I would have noticed it the first time,

01:12:23

would have had this sort of impact on me,

01:12:26

but I needed to be in the right spot

01:12:28

and be looking at it through a certain lens of,

01:12:31

this is how this can be implemented in order for it

01:12:35

to really speak to me.

01:12:38

And I know the cover is printed upside down backwards,

01:12:40

whatever, for an English book.

01:12:42

- It's so wrong, there's so much wrong.

01:12:44

- It sits weird on the shelf,

01:12:46

but I really do think there's a lot of power

01:12:49

in those ideas.

01:12:52

And it's not, again, one of those entertaining reads,

01:12:55

it's kind of like the innovators dilemma

01:12:57

where it's a slog to get through it.

01:12:59

But it's really powerful.

01:13:01

I think it's transformational for people

01:13:04

who consider themselves to be creative.

01:13:06

Anybody who writes or not just writing blog posts,

01:13:11

but videos, I mean, I've been using it a lot for that

01:13:15

as I'm cranking out a new course

01:13:17

for the sweet setup that we're working on.

01:13:19

Like, this is a phenomenal tool.

01:13:23

And there's several things that set it apart

01:13:25

from everything else that's out there.

01:13:26

I'm sure it's not always gonna be the case.

01:13:28

I know there's other stuff that's gonna come

01:13:29

and note-taking apps are kind of evolving

01:13:32

based on Rome's influence,

01:13:33

like drafts is adding like the wiki-style links.

01:13:36

And on one level, people look at that like there,

01:13:38

it's same thing, you know, no, it's not the same thing.

01:13:41

If you're really digging into it,

01:13:42

you'll realize why it's not the same thing,

01:13:43

but if it's good enough for you, that's fine.

01:13:45

You know, and I think it's gonna take note-taking apps

01:13:48

in general to a whole new level,

01:13:51

but this whole idea of how to take smart notes specifically,

01:13:55

this is a game changer,

01:13:56

especially if you're interested in reading these books

01:13:59

and connecting these ideas,

01:14:00

which is the whole point for us doing this podcast, you know?

01:14:03

So I feel like I finally got out of that book

01:14:06

what I should've got the first time.

01:14:09

And I think it's a very influential book

01:14:12

and the further that I get from it,

01:14:14

it's just gonna be more and more important.

01:14:15

It's gonna be the second time that I read this,

01:14:18

that's the season of my life where I changed things

01:14:22

for the better and I started using

01:14:24

Rome Research to connect all these things.

01:14:27

It feels like a significant tipping point

01:14:31

in my creative journey.

01:14:33

- Sure, I have a note on my notebook right in front of me

01:14:37

that I wrote down before we even jumped on this Zoom call,

01:14:42

it says, "Mike will upgrade.

01:14:46

How does take smart notes to 5.0?"

01:14:49

- Not five because--

01:14:51

- I wrote that down.

01:14:52

- Yeah.

01:14:53

- So this is not a curve ball.

01:14:54

In fact, you didn't go as far as I thought you would.

01:14:57

- Yeah, well, I still think it's formatted weird

01:15:00

and it's hard to get through,

01:15:01

which is my big beef with it, it could be better,

01:15:05

but ideas are powerful, for sure.

01:15:09

- Yeah, I probably saw,

01:15:12

if you're watching the video,

01:15:13

you saw me flipping through my notebook.

01:15:15

I have a video for YouTube that I'm in the middle of working on.

01:15:19

The title of said video is,

01:15:22

do you really need a Zettelcastan?

01:15:24

Creators want you to.

01:15:26

- You don't, that's the thing.

01:15:28

What you've been doing is totally fine.

01:15:30

Anybody who's listening to this.

01:15:33

But for me personally, it's next level stuff.

01:15:35

- Here's the point that I've been working my way towards

01:15:41

and I'll formulate it better

01:15:43

because I'm still trying to work through how I want to

01:15:46

portray this, but there's a disconnect between us creators

01:15:51

and the consumers in that we have a tendency

01:15:55

to write about, create things for about the tools

01:16:01

and the things that we're doing.

01:16:03

So if you are a creator, something like a Zettelcastan,

01:16:06

the slip box concept of connecting notes to each other,

01:16:11

can have a lot of value.

01:16:13

Like what you're saying, like you do a lot of writing,

01:16:15

you do a lot of creating of content in some form

01:16:18

and a Zettelcastan does really well with that.

01:16:22

The bulk of the population doesn't do that.

01:16:25

- Yep.

01:16:26

- So the vast majority of people who are consuming the content

01:16:29

that we make doesn't need a Zettelcast.

01:16:32

(laughs)

01:16:34

- Yeah, I know.

01:16:34

- Even in the chat, Otter's got a point.

01:16:36

It's like, makes me want a research project.

01:16:38

Well, if you don't have things that you're making

01:16:43

on a regular basis, it doesn't make sense.

01:16:45

It's overkill.

01:16:46

You don't need to take the time to go through and do all this

01:16:49

unless you want to get to the point

01:16:51

where you're a regular writer of some kind.

01:16:54

So I don't think most people need this,

01:16:57

but the problem is that you and I and other folks

01:17:00

in the space need tools or want tools like this.

01:17:05

So we tend to write about them,

01:17:07

but the general population doesn't use them.

01:17:09

That's the disconnect.

01:17:11

- To be honest, when we went through that book

01:17:13

the first time, I had the same thought.

01:17:15

I'm like, this is great for research projects.

01:17:17

I don't want a research project.

01:17:19

So no, I'm not going to do this.

01:17:21

(laughs)

01:17:22

- And that's why I generalize it into writers and creators.

01:17:24

- Yeah.

01:17:25

- It doesn't have to be just the research side.

01:17:28

- I took one look at the apps that were available

01:17:29

and I'm like, nope.

01:17:30

(laughs)

01:17:31

- Yep.

01:17:32

- Yep.

01:17:33

- And I know you mentioned, well, maybe you can do this

01:17:34

with then-ve-alt and plain text files.

01:17:36

- Oh, it's too much work.

01:17:38

(laughs)

01:17:39

- Yeah.

01:17:40

- I actually got it to where it was pretty simple for a while.

01:17:42

- Yeah, no, I think you totally could do that

01:17:44

with those tools, just like Obsidian.

01:17:46

That's basically what they are,

01:17:47

is separate text files.

01:17:49

- Right.

01:17:50

- That's not the way that I use it.

01:17:52

And this is kind of the thing is like,

01:17:53

I needed to figure out how I could apply that methodology

01:17:58

to the way that I write and have it provide

01:18:00

any sort of benefit.

01:18:02

(laughs)

01:18:03

- Sure.

01:18:03

- But I've got that now and I realize,

01:18:05

oh, well, yeah, that's really cool.

01:18:07

And the tipping point could have been the first time

01:18:09

that I read how to take smart notes,

01:18:11

but it wasn't because I was like,

01:18:12

ah, research projects, no.

01:18:13

(laughs)

01:18:15

And then I saw Thomas Frank publish a video about it

01:18:19

and I'm like, well, that's interesting.

01:18:21

And that gave me a few ideas.

01:18:22

And I saw Drew Kaufman publish a video about it.

01:18:24

And I'm like, well, that's interesting.

01:18:25

And that gave me a few ideas.

01:18:27

And then I was like, I wonder if I could use it to do this,

01:18:29

you know, and create my own cross-reference library.

01:18:31

And that's kind of the point where it's like, aha.

01:18:33

- Yeah.

01:18:34

- I get how this works.

01:18:35

I wonder if they could do that.

01:18:36

Oh, I can do that too.

01:18:38

Great. (laughs)

01:18:39

'Cause the problem, just speaking to the cross-reference notes

01:18:42

for a moment, I take sermon sketch notes in good notes.

01:18:47

I have paid for very expensive Bible software.

01:18:50

I actually have a subscription, not a subscription,

01:18:53

a library for logos and for coordinates.

01:18:57

Two separate multi-hundred dollar Bible software apps.

01:19:02

And they're great.

01:19:03

You can go look up the original Greek and Hebrew

01:19:05

and stuff like that.

01:19:06

But all the notes that you would take

01:19:07

and those sorts of things are in that app.

01:19:10

It's so annoying.

01:19:11

So it's like trying to copy paste from there

01:19:13

into something else and they're making you have

01:19:14

the stupid little references to the work in logos.

01:19:17

And I'm, no, I don't want that.

01:19:19

I just want this all one place.

01:19:20

I want all this stuff to connect.

01:19:21

I want idea soup.

01:19:23

And that's what Rome Research gives me.

01:19:25

(laughs)

01:19:27

- Well, just to make a point of clarification,

01:19:30

how to take smart notes is not about Rome.

01:19:33

- It's not.

01:19:34

You don't have to use Rome.

01:19:35

I will, though, if you've been paying attention,

01:19:38

I don't know why you would,

01:19:39

'cause you're not, you're not,

01:19:41

you are shoeing the Romans.

01:19:45

- I think it's overhyped.

01:19:46

I think it's ridiculous.

01:19:48

- Sanke Erens though did not too long ago say,

01:19:52

this is the tool that I'm using.

01:19:54

So if he were to rewrite how to make,

01:19:57

how to take smart notes,

01:19:58

he would be telling you how to do it inside of Rome Research.

01:20:02

'Cause he's publicly professed,

01:20:03

yeah, this is the best tool for that.

01:20:05

- Sure.

01:20:06

I still don't think most people need it.

01:20:08

- They don't.

01:20:09

- Just saying. (laughs)

01:20:11

- Completely fair.

01:20:12

- Like, I get it when, like, I get it's shiny new.

01:20:16

What happens when there's new shiny elsewhere

01:20:19

that does it even better?

01:20:21

How you gonna get your notes out?

01:20:22

How you gonna get it moved over?

01:20:24

It sounds like an absolute disaster to try to do that.

01:20:27

- It's all. - Usually is.

01:20:28

- It's all marked down, it's easy.

01:20:29

That's one of the first things I did was

01:20:30

see if I could get stuff out.

01:20:32

- They've said that about Ulysses,

01:20:34

they've said that about,

01:20:35

I don't know how many different things bear,

01:20:37

and it's always a pain,

01:20:38

and you have to do a lot of manual editing

01:20:40

to clean it up every time.

01:20:42

- No, I get it, I get it.

01:20:45

But for me, it's not new shiny.

01:20:46

That's the difference.

01:20:48

I shoo the new shiny.

01:20:50

This came out, and I had a friend who was really,

01:20:54

really, jacked about it,

01:20:56

and actually, when you first told me about it,

01:20:58

I'm like, "Mm-hmm, sure, you get excited

01:20:59

"about every new app, and it's gone in a month."

01:21:01

(laughs)

01:21:03

So no, I'm not even gonna look at this one.

01:21:06

- That's how I feel about Rome.

01:21:08

If it's that good, in a year and a half's time,

01:21:13

it'll be just fine.

01:21:14

- Exactly, exactly.

01:21:15

- I don't see it at the moment.

01:21:17

- Sure. - So.

01:21:18

- That's fair.

01:21:19

- It's too new, it's still a baby.

01:21:22

(laughs)

01:21:23

- It is, it is.

01:21:24

But since it's plain text, I'm not too scared about it,

01:21:27

but we'll see.

01:21:28

I admit that could end up biting me.

01:21:30

- All right, so that's my last official one.

01:21:35

Any other ratings you wanna change?

01:21:36

- I don't think so.

01:21:38

I planned on the five,

01:21:40

and I feel like I should stay there.

01:21:43

- Okay.

01:21:43

- I mean, I could go through and probably do 'em all

01:21:46

in some form, but I think, you know,

01:21:50

we're not here to curate every rating on bookworm

01:21:54

every single time.

01:21:55

- Maybe that'll be episode 200.

01:21:56

(laughs)

01:21:58

- Yeah, they're already talking about it, we need to sort 'em.

01:22:00

- No, that sounds like not very entertaining

01:22:03

if you ask me, but this was fun,

01:22:05

and I feel like the ratings are a little bit more accurate now,

01:22:10

maybe?

01:22:11

- Yeah, I'll give it that, yeah.

01:22:14

- So, cool.

01:22:15

Well, thanks everybody for listening to us ramble on

01:22:21

about episode for episode 100,

01:22:24

picking our five ratings we wanna change.

01:22:26

Thank you, Joe, for being my guinea pig for the quiz.

01:22:30

- As much as I make it sound like I didn't wanna do that,

01:22:33

it was fun.

01:22:34

- It was fun.

01:22:35

You did a great job with it.

01:22:36

I like how you were thinking out loud

01:22:38

into the microphone, like I thought maybe you would.

01:22:40

If this would have been me taking this quiz,

01:22:43

it would have been extremely boring

01:22:44

'cause I just would have been like totally quiet

01:22:46

and then given my answer.

01:22:47

(laughs)

01:22:48

I don't think out loud.

01:22:50

So, it wouldn't have worked the other way,

01:22:52

but this was really cool, and like I said,

01:22:53

I'll make a PDF version of this

01:22:55

for people who wanna download the 11 questions

01:22:59

and wanna quiz themselves.

01:23:01

Starting with the next episode, we'll be back to normal.

01:23:05

So, we'll be following up on the action items from episode 99,

01:23:09

which was the Motive Biapatric Lincioni.

01:23:12

There's not a whole lot on that list,

01:23:14

but there are a couple that you had, Joe,

01:23:16

and then that episode we'll be picking up

01:23:19

on the standard cadence where I pick Joe picks

01:23:23

back and forth, Joe picked the last one, episode 99,

01:23:26

before this special episode 100.

01:23:28

So, the next book that we're gonna cover for next time

01:23:32

is Never Split the Difference by Chris Foss.

01:23:36

And after that, you've got one, Joe.

01:23:38

- Yeah, so after that, we're gonna pick up

01:23:40

Randy Zuckerberg's book, pick three.

01:23:43

I figured with that three are,

01:23:45

I'd have to look it up again, but we got some time.

01:23:46

We'll talk about it more next time,

01:23:48

but I just know that when I first saw it,

01:23:49

it's like, "Oh, Mark Zuckerberg."

01:23:51

And, "Oh, wait, no, Randy."

01:23:52

I need to figure out what the connection is between those two,

01:23:55

if there is any, before we actually record that one.

01:23:58

- Sure.

01:23:59

You got any gap books between now and then?

01:24:03

- No, and I should, because we didn't have a book

01:24:07

for this round, so I really should have done a gap book,

01:24:10

but really I just used it to take a break.

01:24:11

- That's fine, that's fine.

01:24:12

Totally understandable.

01:24:14

I do have a gap book.

01:24:16

I found that Austin Cleon has a new book called Keep Going,

01:24:21

and I found a, he's got an affiliation,

01:24:26

or maybe just they're in the same area

01:24:27

as the company Book People down in Austin.

01:24:30

So you order the book from Book People,

01:24:33

you can actually get a signed copy.

01:24:35

So I have a signed copy by Austin Cleon,

01:24:38

and it's a typical Austin Cleon book, very visual.

01:24:41

I think there's 10 chapters in it,

01:24:42

so it shouldn't take very long to get through

01:24:45

some Austin Cleon's books in the past

01:24:47

have been very influential for me,

01:24:49

specifically steal like an artist,

01:24:51

so I'm excited to go through this one,

01:24:54

and hopefully we'll do that by the time

01:24:56

we record the next episode.

01:24:58

- Nice.

01:24:59

Well, one of the things we've done

01:25:01

over the span of 100 episodes is we've started offering

01:25:05

the Bookworm Membership, so you can join the club

01:25:08

at bookworm.fm/membership,

01:25:12

and that gets you access to a special area

01:25:14

in the community forums,

01:25:16

which are at club.bookworm.fm,

01:25:20

and when you do that, you get a special wallpaper,

01:25:22

which if you're watching us live on Twitch,

01:25:24

you'll actually see that wallpaper whenever we end here,

01:25:28

but that particular wallpaper is one that Mike put together.

01:25:31

You'll get access to some old

01:25:34

gapbook episodes that I did a while back.

01:25:36

Mike's been posting his mine node files

01:25:38

or pictures thereof,

01:25:40

and there's just some extra goodies that come with that.

01:25:44

So if that's of interest to you,

01:25:45

you wanna help us keep the lights on,

01:25:48

go to bookworm.fm/membership.

01:25:50

We'd love to have you as part of the club.

01:25:52

- All right, so thanks everybody for listening.

01:25:54

Thanks to everyone who chimed in for the live recording

01:25:59

here on Twitch, we'll put a link to that

01:26:01

if you wanna join us in the future.

01:26:03

If you're reading along,

01:26:04

pick up Never Split the Difference by Chris Foss,

01:26:07

and we will talk to you in a couple of weeks.