-How many keyboards have you bought since we last talked, Mike?
00:00:03
Since this is a thing, you got into fountain pens,
00:00:06
and then you bought 700 of them.
00:00:08
Now I know you're getting into keyboards.
00:00:10
-I have just one.
00:00:12
-We were just talking about this before we jumped on.
00:00:14
-Just one keyboard, but three new pens.
00:00:17
-Okay.
00:00:18
-So pens still win.
00:00:20
-But the keyboard has hot, swappable switches.
00:00:25
Then the next question is,
00:00:27
how many different sets of switches are you going to buy?
00:00:29
-That is another great question.
00:00:31
I think only one because they're a pain to swap out.
00:00:35
-Sure.
00:00:35
-But you can do it and you don't need to solder anything.
00:00:38
So that's pretty cool.
00:00:39
I got the Keychron K8.
00:00:41
I backed this as a Kickstarter.
00:00:43
And basically as soon as I got this,
00:00:46
they opened up another Kickstarter for another keyboard.
00:00:48
-Yeah.
00:00:48
-Yep.
00:00:49
-But this one's pretty cool.
00:00:51
It's a standard tenkeyless keyboard,
00:00:55
which has some cool RGB stuff, which my kids love.
00:00:58
-Oh, of course.
00:00:59
-And it's got Bluetooth so it can pair with both my Mac and my iPad,
00:01:04
which I really like.
00:01:05
You know, I've trying to keep my Mac set up on my desk downstairs
00:01:10
and then just bring my iPad upstairs.
00:01:13
-Sure.
00:01:14
-Kind of mode switching for the different devices.
00:01:16
And yeah, it's kind of nice to put it up in the stand,
00:01:20
work on the kitchen table with the Keychron and the Magic Trackpad,
00:01:24
kind of use the iPad as a quasi computer.
00:01:27
-Yeah.
00:01:28
I have dipped my toe into the world of mechanical keyboards.
00:01:31
I know a lot about them.
00:01:33
But the only one I...
00:01:35
Well, I shouldn't say that.
00:01:36
I own two.
00:01:37
I'm in the process of selling one of them.
00:01:39
I have a DOS keyboard, but then I have a DOS 5Q,
00:01:43
like the one that's all internet connected,
00:01:45
so it can light things up as things happen.
00:01:47
But the trick with that is you can't get the switches that are in that one.
00:01:52
I can't get a Devorac layout for that keyboard.
00:01:56
So, what is the thing I struggle with?
00:01:58
Everybody's like, "Can I get a Mac keyboard key set for it?"
00:02:02
Well, sure, but I want to rearrange the entire key set.
00:02:06
So, it doesn't always work out.
00:02:09
The A's are the same and the M's are the same.
00:02:12
I think that's it.
00:02:13
I think that's all that lines up.
00:02:15
The numbers, of course, are all the same.
00:02:17
Anyway, we didn't come here to talk about keyboards and fountain pens.
00:02:20
We came here to talk about books, Mike.
00:02:21
-We did.
00:02:22
-Should we talk about books?
00:02:23
-Let's do it.
00:02:24
So, we need to jump into follow-up first, which I have none.
00:02:28
-You have none.
00:02:29
-Which means it's now your show.
00:02:31
-So, the two things are followed for me
00:02:33
where don't use the word "I" and identify other people's negotiator style.
00:02:39
I didn't really do this.
00:02:41
I haven't really had a whole lot of meetings since we recorded that last one.
00:02:46
I do think that I'm making a subconscious effort
00:02:51
to not use the word "I" and talk more about "we" or focus on the other person that I'm meeting with.
00:03:02
So, I think I've done a decent job with that one,
00:03:06
but typical Mike fashion really no way to tell whether this is done or not.
00:03:11
And then the other people's negotiator styles, I did this for a little bit,
00:03:14
like a few days after we talked about never split the difference
00:03:19
and then gave up on it.
00:03:22
-Fair enough.
00:03:23
-I haven't really been in many negotiations though,
00:03:25
so I could see that coming in handy down the road.
00:03:28
But to be honest, at this point, I don't even remember without looking at the mind map
00:03:33
what the different negotiator styles were.
00:03:36
So, I'd say that one is done, but maybe failed.
00:03:43
-All right, that's fair.
00:03:45
-Yeah, I've had a few folks in my normal Twitch streams
00:03:49
and in the Discord that I'm now running.
00:03:52
There's folks telling me, "Okay, you need to use what you learned
00:03:56
and never split the difference in the midst of your whole job transition stuff,
00:03:59
which is absolutely true."
00:04:01
And I would be lying if I had said I hadn't been using some of the techniques in that
00:04:05
in the midst of applications and such.
00:04:08
So...
00:04:09
-Great fun.
00:04:10
Glad we read it.
00:04:11
-I feel like this one's kind of tactically deployed.
00:04:15
It's not something where you are going to use it on a day-to-day basis,
00:04:19
which is kind of what I was thinking when I got done with it,
00:04:24
when I created these action items, I think.
00:04:26
-Sure.
00:04:27
-And then I just realized that the standard meeting stuff,
00:04:30
this isn't the place where this really shines.
00:04:33
By the way, I found, I think I shared it with you,
00:04:36
that Chris Voss has a master class.
00:04:38
So if you want to learn negotiating from the master negotiator himself,
00:04:45
there's a master class available, and in the ad for it,
00:04:48
they show the call audio being played on screen from the chase bank robbery at the beginning,
00:04:56
where they thought it was a bunch of people and it was just two people.
00:04:59
It's one of the first stories that he tells in that book.
00:05:01
That whole audio, I guess, is included in the course.
00:05:04
So if you want to actually hear what it sounded like, go sign up for that master class.
00:05:08
-I feel like I need to join master class at some point.
00:05:12
There's so many courses there that I want to go through.
00:05:16
And the one that always comes up is I really, really, really want to go through
00:05:20
Neil Gaiman's storytelling master class.
00:05:23
That is one I feel like I really want to jump into.
00:05:26
All because I have now listened to one of his books.
00:05:30
And that book had me hooked the whole time.
00:05:34
-All right.
00:05:35
-Let's jump into today's book because there's already jokes in the chat about it.
00:05:40
So we'll see how this goes.
00:05:43
And if you're listening to this in post and want to join us live in the future, we're on Twitch.
00:05:49
So Bookworm FM is the handle on Twitch.
00:05:53
You can follow us there and you'll get alerts and stuff when we go live.
00:05:56
But yes, you can watch us live.
00:05:58
You can join us there in the future.
00:06:00
But today's book is by Randy Zuckerberg.
00:06:04
The title of this is Pick 3.
00:06:06
-Do not call her Mark Zuckerberg sister.
00:06:09
-So you caught that.
00:06:11
She is Mark Zuckerberg's sister.
00:06:16
Was not terribly thrilled about being called that.
00:06:19
You can have it all, just not every day for anybody who's keeping up with me.
00:06:24
Yeah, I have lots of thoughts on this one, which might go like a book a few times ago.
00:06:31
We'll see how this actually goes out.
00:06:34
This is interesting to me.
00:06:36
It is a New York Times bestseller.
00:06:39
On the front cover, there is a quote.
00:06:43
And Mike, you sent this to me via text.
00:06:46
I think when you were first starting the book, maybe it's when you got it.
00:06:49
I don't know.
00:06:50
On the front, there is a quote by Inc.
00:06:54
With just one sentence, Randy Zuckerberg will make you rethink work-life balance forever.
00:07:00
And my thought was, because I hadn't caught that quote when you texted it to me, and I hadn't started the book at that point.
00:07:07
But whenever I got that quote, I was like, "Okay, two things."
00:07:10
Number one, what is that sentence that they're referring to?
00:07:13
And number two, that's a tall claim.
00:07:16
Like, that's a big, big setup for this book.
00:07:20
Yep.
00:07:21
I'm curious, Mike, what was your first impression of this book before you read it?
00:07:27
Were you excited about reading this?
00:07:28
Were you scared to death or read this?
00:07:31
Where did you land?
00:07:33
I had some preconceived notions going in because the cover lists the five different areas that we're going to talk about.
00:07:42
One of them is sleep, and she's basically saying, "You can pick any three of these, but you can't pick all of them."
00:07:49
And I was like, "Well, I have to pick that one, so I guess I'm down to pick two if I follow your method?"
00:07:55
I don't think I like this.
00:07:59
So, yeah, I wasn't super excited about her approach.
00:08:06
I kind of thought going in that I was going to disagree with her on some points.
00:08:11
I tried to go into it with an open mind.
00:08:13
I would like to believe that I did, but I disagree with her on lots more points, I think, as we got into it.
00:08:21
Which we'll talk about.
00:08:22
I do think there's some good stuff here, but the exact text I sent you after that picture was, but it's still 250 pages.
00:08:30
Yes.
00:08:31
And now, having read it, I can tell you that that cover pretty much summarizes the entire book.
00:08:38
Yes.
00:08:39
Yeah, so there's...
00:08:41
Let's just jump in here because this could be either a short episode or we have lots of opinions to cover.
00:08:50
And the first... so she breaks it into three sections.
00:08:55
And the very first of those is, "What is pick three?"
00:08:59
And that particular question is then predicated by her explaining where the concept of pick three came from.
00:09:07
Which is her being on panels and always being asked, "How do you balance a career with being a mom?"
00:09:13
Which, number one, is kind of an annoying question because you hear that on every single panel where there's a female who works full-time.
00:09:21
Like, they always ask that question. It's kind of annoying.
00:09:23
Yeah.
00:09:24
Because everybody knows the answers to those questions.
00:09:26
So they ask her that question and she's sick and tired of getting asked that question and comes up with this.
00:09:32
You know, they're the five things and I have to pick three every day.
00:09:35
It's purposefully imbalanced.
00:09:38
And that is the sum total of pick three is that you have these five areas which we'll go through.
00:09:46
And each day you have to pick three because you're not going to be able to do more than that in a given day.
00:09:55
I do have to say that, like, right at the end, like, the very last thing she says, though, is like, "Oh, by the way, you can pick your own pick three."
00:10:01
Yes.
00:10:02
And then you don't have to be the categories that you use.
00:10:05
And I was kind of like, "Is she going to go there? Is she not going to go there?"
00:10:08
And at the end she went there and I'm like, "Ahh!"
00:10:11
You should have told me that at the beginning.
00:10:13
Yes. Yes. Because...
00:10:16
All right. So... I need to stop.
00:10:19
So what is your impression of the concept of pick three because the entire book is dependent on you buying into the fact that you can only pick three in a day?
00:10:31
I don't like it. I think I disagree with it and I think my life is evidence that it doesn't...
00:10:39
The framework she's proposing here is not... I can pick more than three things.
00:10:48
Now, I'm not advocating for doing a bunch of things too, so there's a lot of nuance here that I want to unpack.
00:10:54
But first of all, I feel like I need to say at the beginning here, I feel bad even criticizing anything about this book.
00:11:02
Because she's really smart, not just because she's Mark Zuckerberg's sister.
00:11:07
She got into Harvard. And that's kind of the story she tells at the beginning is that the admissions person told her that you can be well-rounded or you can be well-lopsided.
00:11:16
We want people who are well-lopsided to fill in the holes because everybody else here is the same.
00:11:21
And I totally agree with that point and I think that's really cool that she got in for her musical ability.
00:11:26
She talks about imbalance being the key to success and happiness.
00:11:30
I totally agree with that part of it.
00:11:32
Also, I can't say that I understand what it's like, but I empathize with her being asked like every single interview she does.
00:11:42
Welcome, Mark Zuckerberg's sister. How do you balance family and a job?
00:11:47
I totally get why that is so incredibly annoying and I feel like any sort of criticism that I would have over her book at this point is going to come across as a little bit of mansplaining.
00:12:00
Yep.
00:12:01
And I don't know how to negate that, but there are things that I completely disagree with in this book.
00:12:09
And that's fine.
00:12:10
Like she's got her thing. It works for her. I've got my thing. It works for me.
00:12:13
But yeah, I don't know. So that being said, I guess, I'll continue to just do what I do and hopefully not sound like too much of a jerk.
00:12:24
Well, here's the thing.
00:12:28
All right. So the next section of the book is the big five. And these are the five caters. We'll run through these five.
00:12:36
Probably not in a lot of detail, but the five are work, sleep, family, fitness and friends.
00:12:43
And to your point, she has the caveat off, you can pick different categories.
00:12:47
You don't really think of that whenever you're going through this, but the concept of picking three, like I was trying to run through my mind of these five.
00:12:59
How many of these do I focus on each day?
00:13:03
Now, obviously, like Sundays and weekends and stuff are different than the normal workday, but like sleep is always fairly high up there.
00:13:13
I say that knowing that last night I struggled with sleep sorely and I'm like on the edge of migraines right now.
00:13:18
So if I'm a little bit funny looking, that's why.
00:13:21
So like sleep is something that's usually way up there for me. Family is way up there for me with everything I've been doing work wise, like work is way up there.
00:13:32
I do try to spend a lot of time with friends. Fitness I don't do a whole lot with because I'm so active and other things.
00:13:41
Like I move sound equipment three or four times a week.
00:13:45
Some of those boxes are 50, 60, 70 pounds and you're moving them a long way.
00:13:50
Like you basically are getting a workout when you're doing that.
00:13:53
So I feel like I have all of these almost daily and yet I'm told I need to pick three here.
00:14:00
Like, well, why?
00:14:02
And I feel like so much of this is routine.
00:14:05
It's not you need to focus on this versus that.
00:14:08
Like even she goes through and like is spelling out what a normal week looks like and she only picked sleep I think twice, maybe three times on her pick three.
00:14:17
Yeah.
00:14:18
Throughout the week.
00:14:19
And my thought was, well, then you're like short cutting everything else you're choosing.
00:14:23
Like you have to pick that one every time like that.
00:14:26
Maybe it's just that one that we both struggled with, but I don't know.
00:14:31
I just I had a difficult time reconciling this concept of pick three, which is the entire basis of the book.
00:14:41
Yeah.
00:14:42
So I mean, I get what she's saying.
00:14:45
Like you can't do everything every single day.
00:14:49
I get that, but I think that can come from choosing how much time you put into each of these, like the five that she's got here work, sleep, family, fitness, friends.
00:15:03
If you structure your day, right, you can do all of those in every day.
00:15:07
Yeah, I agree.
00:15:08
I think maybe with the way that she works, if you pick that one, it dominates everything else.
00:15:16
So my work situation is very different than the Facebook culture that she describes.
00:15:21
Yeah.
00:15:22
I know that that is going to be more freeing for me to pick other things.
00:15:27
So maybe we're both right in this instance.
00:15:30
It'd be.
00:15:31
You know, the way that she works and she's more successful than I am.
00:15:35
So she could say, well, I really meant like, if you're really going to be successful in the world of work and you're going to climb the corporate ladder, you're going to make a name for yourself.
00:15:43
I'm not the one who's appearing on the CNBC interview shows.
00:15:48
I'm not the one singing on Broadway.
00:15:51
So.
00:15:52
Right.
00:15:53
I recognize that, but I also have no desire to do that either.
00:15:56
So yeah, we're wired different.
00:15:58
That's for sure.
00:15:59
But yeah, in that first section I put in my mind not file, my issue sleep is non-negotiable.
00:16:04
I have to pick this one.
00:16:06
I've shared on this podcast before I've been diagnosed with epilepsy.
00:16:09
And one of the things that causes a seizure is not getting enough sleep and not taking that chance.
00:16:13
I'm going to be very careful, make sure I get enough sleep and I get good quality sleep.
00:16:17
That's why I've been tracking my sleep for years using apps like Sleep Cycle till it's stopped working with my watch and auto sleep and all that stuff.
00:16:26
And it's why Apple isn't gone far enough with the new stuff that they're adding.
00:16:30
You know, I don't think it's, it's cool that they're talking about adding that to like the watch OS 7, but it's not enough for me.
00:16:38
And I recognize like I'm an oddball that I prioritize it that much.
00:16:42
But that's my frame of reference.
00:16:44
And on page 19 she uses a quote, she uses it as an example.
00:16:49
I don't think she said this herself, but the quote is, I guess I'll have to survive on four hours of sleep tonight.
00:16:55
Not happening for me.
00:16:56
I'd have a migraine.
00:16:57
If I got four hours of sleep, I better not get in a car and drive anywhere because I'm putting other people at risk.
00:17:03
Right.
00:17:04
So my whole day is derailed if I get four hours of sleep.
00:17:10
Someone's got to be watching me every single moment of the day to make sure nothing happens, which sounds a little bit extreme.
00:17:20
It's really not that big a deal.
00:17:22
You know, that's, that's the thing.
00:17:23
It's like, it's not that hard to get a good night's sleep every night.
00:17:26
It is possible.
00:17:27
You can do it.
00:17:28
Yeah.
00:17:29
Yeah.
00:17:30
Even with young kids, like I've got five kids.
00:17:32
Don't give me that garbage.
00:17:33
You're like, well, I got, I got a little kid.
00:17:35
So I guess I'm not going to sleep till they're 18.
00:17:37
Right.
00:17:38
You can.
00:17:39
If it's important enough, you'll figure out a way and yeah, there's going to be the time maybe when they're little babies where they're crying in the middle of the night.
00:17:46
You got to get up and you deal with it.
00:17:47
You know, you push through like that, that season, but it's a season.
00:17:50
It'll, it'll pass.
00:17:51
Yeah.
00:17:52
Yeah.
00:17:53
Yeah.
00:17:54
There's, so I'm watching the chat at the same time, but one of the members in our chat, Otter, is a pilot.
00:18:00
And he's saying he's legally not allowed to fly on four hours of sleep.
00:18:04
Yeah.
00:18:05
Like that should tell you how important this is.
00:18:07
Exactly.
00:18:08
While it's aren't allowed to fly with that little sleep, then this should be yes.
00:18:13
I'm with you, but this might also be like we're, we're picking on sleep here.
00:18:19
And it might be that like with my health fight over the last two years, plus your diagnosis, like we're kind of on the extreme end likely.
00:18:29
When it comes to the sleep preference, I know that some people don't have that strength, I guess.
00:18:37
I also know that there were years that I was spent getting up at five a.m.
00:18:42
Before I felt this way.
00:18:44
And I look back on that and I kind of have a regret that I did that.
00:18:50
Like, yes, I got a lot done in the mornings.
00:18:52
I had a lot of time to myself and I could do a lot of different things in that time.
00:18:56
But I know that knowing how I feel now, having gone through the process of making sure I do sleep well enough,
00:19:04
I was not near as effective throughout the rest of the day as I am now.
00:19:08
Yep, absolutely.
00:19:09
Even though I have less time to put towards it.
00:19:11
But that doesn't mean because you have less time that you can't do the other things.
00:19:15
That's the thing.
00:19:16
Right.
00:19:17
Like, so I would say I have picked four, maybe five every day for the last several months.
00:19:25
Sure.
00:19:26
And this is all stuff that I've been rethinking and reconsidering since the COVID-19 quarantine stuff started in March.
00:19:34
Basically, as soon as that started, the weather was starting to get nice.
00:19:39
And I was like, I'm going to get outside every single day.
00:19:42
I'm going to go for a run.
00:19:43
I'm going to go for bike ride.
00:19:44
It doesn't matter.
00:19:45
Like, I just got to do that.
00:19:48
Yep.
00:19:49
And I have been doing that every single day since the middle of March.
00:19:54
I put in over 300 miles in August.
00:19:58
Nice.
00:19:59
It, like, I literally have not missed a day.
00:20:01
And I think that's been really important.
00:20:03
I think there's a lot of emotional benefits that come from getting outside and just giving myself that time to think.
00:20:08
And that was a choice.
00:20:10
And I would argue that is me picking fitness.
00:20:12
So now I've picked sleep and I've picked fitness.
00:20:15
But I've also picked family.
00:20:17
We play board games almost every single night.
00:20:20
And we do a lot of stuff that we hadn't done previously as a family because we were busy running people to different lessons and things.
00:20:28
And we've completely rethought that now instead of spending all Monday night at the local music store.
00:20:33
Literally as we record this, our kids just got done doing virtual lessons with the missionary that we support in Costa Rica.
00:20:38
Sure.
00:20:39
Yeah.
00:20:40
We don't have to go anywhere.
00:20:41
It's one right after the other.
00:20:42
Right.
00:20:43
My wife doesn't even have to manage it.
00:20:44
We do it from home.
00:20:45
Like this is better in every possible way plus it saves us so much time.
00:20:50
So that just kind of shows me that, and again, this is a little bit different.
00:20:56
We're in the middle of a different time now as we record this than she was when she wrote this even though it was only a few years ago.
00:21:04
So maybe if we were able to talk to her directly, she would say, "Well, yeah, I can see how that happens now.
00:21:11
And this is why I was thinking this way previously."
00:21:14
And all of the social norms around this stuff have changed.
00:21:17
So great job.
00:21:19
But that really the whole world changed.
00:21:22
So that's not what I was talking about.
00:21:24
I recognize that that is a possibility.
00:21:27
But then there's work, which I don't know.
00:21:32
I'm working with Blonk Media.
00:21:34
I'm doing bookworm.
00:21:35
I'm doing focus.
00:21:36
I feel like I'm picking work every day.
00:21:39
And we're pumping out products or pumping out podcasts.
00:21:44
Like this is stuff that I love to do.
00:21:47
I'm not complaining in any way, shape, or form.
00:21:49
But this is work.
00:21:50
I would argue that is picking work.
00:21:52
I'm doing that five days a week.
00:21:54
You know, I'm able to not do it on the weekends.
00:21:57
And I feel fortunate that I'm able to do that.
00:22:00
But on those weekdays, doesn't mean I don't pick family.
00:22:04
Doesn't mean I don't pick fitness.
00:22:06
Doesn't mean I don't pick sleep.
00:22:07
Like this is my life.
00:22:09
And I would argue I am successfully picking four every single day with the addition of friends once in a while.
00:22:17
I've been trying to think like you said something that sparked a thought in my mind of trying to go back to my corporate days.
00:22:24
I was trying to think through if I was coming from that mindset.
00:22:29
I haven't done this.
00:22:30
So this is me spitballing.
00:22:31
If I go back to that time and think through this concept, if I think back to that time and compare this to that, I think that it's possible that this would be a lot more relevant.
00:22:47
Sure.
00:22:48
Because you're right.
00:22:49
We're in a pandemic.
00:22:50
Everybody's, you know, a lot of events are shut down.
00:22:52
So people have more time on their side.
00:22:55
So being able to focus on these different on more than three makes more sense.
00:23:01
But if you go back, if I go back in time and try to think through, okay, I was traveling three out of four weeks a month.
00:23:09
I was gone a lot.
00:23:11
I was when I was home, I was on phone calls with Switzerland at six a.m.
00:23:18
and I would hang up my last call at about six p.m. as I would start the call whenever I'd hop in the car to pull out the garage door and I would hang up the next one whenever I shut the door when I got home.
00:23:29
Like that was the schedule that I was maintaining every day that I went to work five, six days a week. Thankfully, they would at least try to make sure I had Sunday mornings at home.
00:23:39
So that one was at least provided easily for me.
00:23:43
But if you come at it from that stance, like, okay, with all that travel, work was an easy when you picked every day because you didn't have an option.
00:23:52
Sleep was maybe like that one.
00:23:55
I don't like there were times I can think of that I would land.
00:24:00
My flight would land at 11 p.m. and I had seven a.m. meetings the next morning, which meant by the time you got to hotel, it's midnight 12 30 or later.
00:24:10
You're up by six, six 30 so that you can run through email quick before you're at the next like your five, five and a half hours of sleep, most nights.
00:24:19
So I could see how that is maybe one that I wasn't picking family. I wasn't picking because I wasn't there fitness. I wasn't picking because I'm in meetings and work all the time.
00:24:30
And friends were on the weekend. So like if you think about it from that stance, I could see how you kind of get there. Like you can get two, maybe three in that scenario.
00:24:43
But you really got to focus on them to get those to work. Like you would have to make it an intentional decision to make fitness happen in that life scenario.
00:24:52
I also don't know how many people live in that scenario. Like today it's not near as many as it was nine months ago.
00:25:01
But if you come at it from that lifestyle, I could see how maybe this has a little more validity. I still think it has zero validity to me today.
00:25:09
But do you get what I'm trying to do? I'm trying to figure out what type of work scenario or life scenario would this apply to more than what we're in.
00:25:21
The thing that the underlying unspoken assumption is that if these are all big rocks that you are trying to fit into your jar, which is your 24 hours, work is disproportionately huge.
00:25:38
And I don't think that's the case. And I think people are discovering that working from home. They're discovering what probably you and I have known for a long time that you're not doing eight hours of work in a day anyway.
00:25:49
You're lucky if you get three to four really good hours of deep focused work and at that point you're exhausted.
00:25:57
Or I guess the other option is that people are working from home and they're just in meetings all day every day.
00:26:03
And so nothing really changes and I feel for those people. But yeah, I don't have those meetings and I'm glad.
00:26:10
I don't want to create that scenario just so I can say there I picked work.
00:26:14
Totally fine with working this way, which feels way better than the societal norm. And I think that's the big takeaway here is challenge the norms, break all the rules.
00:26:28
And then figure out how to design the life that you want to live. I guess my reaction to the title pick three is kind of the advice I would give anybody when they're trying to figure out what are all the pieces of a fulfilling
00:26:43
life to them is when someone says, okay, you can pick this or you can pick this, say, no, I want both. Now, how do I do that?
00:26:51
Because there is a way you just got to figure it out. Sure. Yeah, no, it makes sense. But I'm on your side here.
00:27:02
So if you go coming back to the book, if you go through the three sections, the first is what is pick three, which is basically the memoir behind where this came from.
00:27:11
The next section is the big five. We've kind of been jumping around this. I don't know if you want to dive into any of these specifically, Mike, you know, work, sleep, family, fitness friends.
00:27:21
The thing here is that she goes into each of these and she has these like personas of sorts where people who take it to the extreme and they, and people who like eliminate it from their life where they make products for it.
00:27:37
I feel like that was just a stretch to try to get more content for the book. This is definitely one I feel like should have been a blog post, but it's a New York Times bestseller.
00:27:48
So they paid for the accolades. Sorry, there's a bias coming out.
00:27:54
Yeah, so the approach here, just real briefly, the picture persona, she mentioned those in the what is pick three section.
00:28:02
And then in these, the next section where she's breaking down these five different categories, she's basically explaining them through the lens of the different personas in the different areas.
00:28:13
So the personas are the passionista, the eliminator, the superhero, the renovator, the monetizer and the expert.
00:28:20
I don't think she ever mentioned the expert when she was going through the other sections.
00:28:25
She kind of picks and chooses the ones that she defines in the different areas.
00:28:28
Yeah, she didn't do all of them for every of those, for each of those five.
00:28:33
Yep. She just picked and chose.
00:28:34
Yeah, so it's a little bit weird, but I suppose the bookworm formula here would be to tackle each one of these one by one and just kind of talk about some of the underlying assumptions underneath those areas in terms of picking them.
00:28:53
And the first one is work, so if you want, I can go here because I jotted down page 25.
00:29:01
She says, "I regularly worked 12 hour plus days, but never thought twice about it because all my friends across every industry I knew of were doing the same."
00:29:10
And I put in parentheses, "This is not the voice to listen to for this one."
00:29:15
So that's kind of my evidence for why I think this one is disproportionately big.
00:29:24
If you got 24 hours a day and work is costing you 12, then what does it even look like to pick fitness or to pick family?
00:29:31
It's obviously not putting another two other 12 hour blocks inside of your jar.
00:29:37
So I'm thinking through how do we get these as we're going to pick them to be more equal? Or what does success in these areas look like?
00:29:46
If I get six hours of work in, is that a successfully picked work day? There's no way I'm going running for six hours.
00:29:54
If I run for an hour, I'd argue that I picked that one.
00:29:57
So it's worth defining what success looks like, but I feel like right at the beginning, her definition of success for picking work and mine are a little bit different.
00:30:05
Yeah, I'm with you there. I think that if I look at my day job, my current day job is an IT director to church.
00:30:12
It's a successful work day and I've successfully picked that one to use her terminology.
00:30:18
For that day, when the job that day is complete, things are ready for the following day and any real emergencies are taken care of, or a plan is at least made for them.
00:30:33
Whenever those things are complete, that work day is finished. That's what that means.
00:30:40
But that's different whenever you start going, like you and I are content creators when I'm not at work work.
00:30:48
We create content in different forms, whether it's a video or a stream or a podcast or a course, a blog post.
00:30:56
We make things. It's easy in that realm to say, "Here is the schedule. This is the plan. If I've accomplished the work today, that would make sure that I'm on track to accomplish said plan, today is complete."
00:31:13
That is a hard line that is very easy to materialize. When that's finished, you can be done.
00:31:23
I would argue you and I, whenever we hit those points, we quit for the day.
00:31:30
But she doesn't. It's 12 hours as much as you can possibly do.
00:31:38
If you work 10 hours and you have those two hours remaining, they add more projects so that they have more to do.
00:31:48
They make it up, which in my opinion would mean they're not choosing the effective projects.
00:31:52
They're just filling time, choosing things to fill time.
00:31:55
Yeah, she even talked about when she was at Facebook. This is a quote.
00:31:58
"It's his idea of a break from work was to work on other things."
00:32:01
Yeah.
00:32:02
She was the one behind Facebook Live and that was created during a hackathon, which should we define a hackathon?
00:32:11
Listen, there's no way a hackathon is.
00:32:13
I want you to define it.
00:32:15
I've participated in these sorts of things before.
00:32:19
My brother works for a company based out of Silicon Valley, which has raised funds.
00:32:26
He's been in that startup world. I'm familiar with the concept. Never attended one myself.
00:32:31
But it's basically, "Let's get together. Let's work on a project."
00:32:35
We'll do it 24 hours straight. At the end of the day, we've got a shippable product.
00:32:41
How'd I do?
00:32:42
Some of them are one day. They're 24 hours straight. You start and you don't stop until it's done.
00:32:48
One of them that I participated in was a little less evil, I would say, in that it was three days.
00:32:59
So then it was three eight-hour workdays.
00:33:02
Okay.
00:33:03
But then you were forced to quit.
00:33:05
But it was start and stop. There were timers that start and stopped whenever you were participating in it.
00:33:11
So that, I think, is a little... I'm more in line to do that one versus the old school way of hackathons,
00:33:19
which I think they still do them in that form where you're going to start at, say, 8 a.m. on this day,
00:33:26
and then you go until 8 a.m. the next day, and at that point, you then do a presentation to show off what you did.
00:33:32
Because 24 hours is the work time. It's not necessarily the presentation time in those.
00:33:37
But they're different depending on which one you're in.
00:33:39
Yeah, it's usually on a weekend.
00:33:41
Yeah, usually like a Saturday into Sunday morning or something.
00:33:45
Yeah.
00:33:46
So this sounds horrible to me now.
00:33:49
We don't really do that when we're building online courses.
00:33:53
No. So again, totally different world here.
00:33:58
I have not created Facebook Live.
00:34:01
Katy Perry doesn't want to use anything that I've created to launch her world tour.
00:34:06
I haven't received calls from the White House saying they want to use my stuff for a town hall.
00:34:11
So I defer on this one, but I'm okay with that too.
00:34:18
This all kind of comes down to choices and how you define this stuff, but I find like the book, she wrote it from her experience.
00:34:29
So her bias is coming through.
00:34:31
And I guess just me personally as I read it, I disagreed with a lot of the different definitions.
00:34:36
And I kind of think maybe if I was in a different stage of life, I would have agreed with it a little bit more, but it still feels a little bit extreme to me.
00:34:47
And right away in this work section, I'm kind of like, okay, let's get to the end of this one because I know there's not going to be anything that I want to apply from this.
00:34:57
Your definition of work is not how I want to work.
00:35:00
So I am kind of tuning out at this point.
00:35:03
I did read through all the different work personas.
00:35:06
She does have like different lists with each of these ways to make the most of your work, passionista lifestyle.
00:35:16
So like be a thought leader, learn how to be a great presenter, get comfortable delegating, just say no, become an email ninja.
00:35:22
I thought those lists were actually kind of cool.
00:35:24
I feel like there's a lot of gold in some of those.
00:35:27
But again, there's some that I don't really agree with too.
00:35:30
That one in particular though, under the work passionista, like the end of that section, I agree with just about everything that's on here.
00:35:40
So I just want to kind of call these out because I feel like if you're going to read this book and you're looking for like takeaways, this is where the stuff is.
00:35:48
Sure.
00:35:49
So like the passionista, for example, be a thought leader.
00:35:51
What does that mean?
00:35:52
It doesn't mean that you just learn as much as you can about the thing and write as much as you can about the thing.
00:35:57
I think it, a thought leader is not just based on like the volume of content you pump out around a subject, but it's connecting the dots and
00:36:09
presenting it in a way that is authentic.
00:36:14
So like you can tell when someone's taken the time to think through things and they're trying to share like their perspective on something and someone who's just regurgitating what somebody else said.
00:36:23
And so like be a thought leader.
00:36:25
That's kind of what I think of.
00:36:26
Learn how to be a great presenter.
00:36:27
Totally agree with this.
00:36:28
That's where Toastmasters comes in.
00:36:30
Get comfortable delegating.
00:36:32
Totally agree with that.
00:36:33
I suck at it, but I know I need to get better at it.
00:36:36
Just because I know that it's a thing I should do.
00:36:40
It does not mean I actually put it into action and accomplish that thing.
00:36:44
Yeah.
00:36:45
And so this is where I feel like there's kind of a missed opportunity in a way because this is like a one page list with a couple of sentences behind each one.
00:36:53
But there's some really good stuff in here.
00:36:55
This is kind of where her experience I think shines through.
00:36:58
And I would have liked to see her kind of unpack this stuff a little bit more because I feel like there's some good stuff in here.
00:37:05
If you were to really consider some of these points, but it gets lost in the 200 something pages that is this book.
00:37:13
Yes, there's a lot.
00:37:15
Because you have a good point towards the end of each of these chapters as she's going through these poor personas.
00:37:20
Like that's where some of the great stuff can be.
00:37:24
It seems like you kind of have to dig it out.
00:37:26
Yep.
00:37:27
Like to what you're saying like there's that nugget in that.
00:37:30
That right there.
00:37:31
That's a good one.
00:37:32
But outside of that, it's difficult.
00:37:35
So let's look.
00:37:36
I feel like these first two or ones that we're going to probably spend the most time on sleep is the next one.
00:37:42
We kind of talked about this already, but she does have like again the personas where people are way into sleep and build entire industries around sleep.
00:37:54
Ariana Huffington being one of them that she's mentioned, which we did go through her book, The Sleep Revolution.
00:37:59
So like that concept is definitely there.
00:38:03
I don't know what else you want to say about sleep.
00:38:05
Like we both like it.
00:38:07
There were some interesting statistics in this section.
00:38:10
She mentions that the average American sleeps 6.5 hours per night, which is lower than I thought it was.
00:38:15
I thought it was more like seven, which is still not enough.
00:38:17
Not going to lie, given the way that she tells some of her stories, I'm less inclined to trust her.
00:38:24
Her data sources.
00:38:26
So for what it's worth.
00:38:28
Sure. Fair enough.
00:38:30
Another one she cited was that on four hours of sleep, your 4.2 times more likely to catch a cold than on seven hours or more, which is kind of interesting.
00:38:38
And she mentioned that heart attacks go down with the late savings ends and people get an extra hour of sleep, which is kind of interesting.
00:38:45
There was a quote in here on page 93 where she's talking about somebody who has made the switch to prioritizing sleep.
00:38:55
So I guess she would define them as a sleep passionista.
00:38:59
And these stories are another thing that is kind of cool about this book.
00:39:05
So she goes through each section and each chapter basically like the work chapter and the sleep chapter.
00:39:14
And she's got a quote at the beginning.
00:39:15
And then she basically tells a story about somebody that she knows or even a personal story in the different areas.
00:39:22
And the people that she talked about, the stories that she told, I felt like these were pretty good and I was interested in the lives of the people that she was talking about.
00:39:32
Not all of them, but for the majority of the work.
00:39:34
So this person that she told the story on in the sleep section, she's describing this person and the change now.
00:39:41
She says, now she's still getting things done, but has a sense of joy and fulfillment.
00:39:44
That's much more easily available to tap into when she's fully recharged.
00:39:48
And I comment on that was, well, doesn't this kind of contradict the big theory?
00:39:53
Like if the whole idea behind the system is to make sure that you are living the kind of life that you want, the kind of life that you enjoy, and that joy is gone when you don't sleep well.
00:40:09
What's the point?
00:40:11
Is that fair?
00:40:13
Well, even, you know, the chat brought it up earlier when we were first diving into sleep, how she talks about the book, why we sleep and how terrible it is not to sleep during this section.
00:40:27
And yet earlier in the book, she's talking about how you got to pick three, but you can't always pick sleep.
00:40:35
Like that's what she's saying.
00:40:37
It's like, so even she is arguing for us in that sleep is something you should pick regularly every single time.
00:40:48
So I don't know what you do with this.
00:40:51
Yeah.
00:40:52
This is where my sense is as you go through each of these sections, she's making the argument for why you should pick it every day.
00:41:01
Yep.
00:41:02
And then tells you you can't do that.
00:41:05
So she still wants everything, but then she's telling you you can't have everything.
00:41:09
Which, to be honest, is a little bit refreshing in the productivity genre because I feel like a lot of the books that we read kind of make it sound, oh, it's so simple.
00:41:23
You just got to follow the formula.
00:41:24
And if you do this, everything's going to be great.
00:41:27
She's at least admitting that you can't do everything.
00:41:30
And she's making the case for why you would want to pick the different areas, but you're right, that can kind of make you feel bad in a sense.
00:41:38
Well, I need to pick all of these and I can't.
00:41:40
Like, for me, I don't know what you would even describe me as, I guess like an optimizer type person.
00:41:47
I would be like, okay, I want to be able to produce the maximum amount of benefit by picking and creating the right combinations of all these different things that I can.
00:41:55
And I would sit there and I would analyze it for days, weeks, months, years, maybe trying to crack the code.
00:42:03
And she's basically saying like, no, don't even try to do that.
00:42:08
You can't.
00:42:09
So be okay with that.
00:42:11
But I feel like that's hard for some people, myself included, to receive.
00:42:17
It's fair.
00:42:18
It is fair.
00:42:19
I, you know, I'm not one that I might eat these words.
00:42:23
I'm not one that gets into trying to find the absolute perfect way of doing something every single day.
00:42:29
Like, because I will have a tendency to change what I do day to day simply because it didn't work as well as I thought it would yesterday.
00:42:37
So then I'm kind of the iteration thing, but my tendency is to not sit and analyze over and over and over and over again without putting it to practice.
00:42:48
My issue is kind of the opposite.
00:42:51
I'll put it into practice and then realize, oh, whoops, I shouldn't have done that.
00:42:55
Like, that's, that's my tendency.
00:42:59
Sleep though.
00:43:00
Like, I have not been good at, I say like this is super important and yet like the last three nights I've struggled with.
00:43:07
Not because I'm not spending enough time in bed just because I've had a lot on my mind and had a lot moving in a lot of different ways.
00:43:14
We were talking about this a little bit before we went live in that like I'm in the middle of potential house sale by scenarios.
00:43:23
I'm in the middle of job transition stuff, which I'm still trying to nail down.
00:43:27
So like those are things that I am working towards plus there's all the content stuff I do online plus by the way, I have a job right now that I'm still doing.
00:43:39
So they know where I sit on a lot of this stuff too.
00:43:43
So like there's just a lot going on and yet I feel like I'm still picking at least four if not five of these things every single day.
00:43:51
So right anyway, side notes there, I guess.
00:43:55
All right, sleep.
00:43:56
So what's next family?
00:43:58
Yep.
00:43:59
You and I are pretty big family people.
00:44:01
I think that she does have stories here of family that's willing to go out of their way.
00:44:10
She talks about how her husband was willing to go to New York City as she's performing on Broadway and then helps them make the move to go to Broadway, but to go to New York City.
00:44:25
So they make the move to New York and then he gets a different job in order to accommodate that.
00:44:30
So like family being willing to stick by each other.
00:44:34
This is where earlier on she's talking about how she didn't like being introduced as Mark's sister.
00:44:42
And yet whenever we get to this section, she tells the story about how Mark cut short a meeting with the president to come to one of her shows.
00:44:57
You're you don't want to be associated with Mark and yet you want to be associated with Mark. You want the good parts of being his sister, but you don't want to be identified as that.
00:45:07
You got to pick one or the other, you can't pick all three.
00:45:12
Yeah.
00:45:13
Anyway, that's me being nitpicky. Like if we're going to go down this road.
00:45:18
She makes the point in this section, which I think kind of works against having family as a pick three category.
00:45:30
She says on page 109, no matter which pick three I choose, family always chooses me.
00:45:35
That's true, especially if you have kids.
00:45:38
So I guess there's a couple different ways that you could deal with that.
00:45:42
You could just say, well, I got to put up with it and make the best of it and I'm going to pick the other stuff.
00:45:48
It's more important to me anyways. Right.
00:45:50
That just feels sleazy to me though.
00:45:54
Feels like if I were to do that, I'm kind of being a selfish jerk.
00:45:59
And it's almost like, well, if my family is going to choose me, I have to choose my family, at least my immediate family.
00:46:07
And part of that is the season of life I'm in where small kids at home that aren't always going to be small.
00:46:13
So I want to make the most of the time that we've got together.
00:46:16
I think if I had extended family that maybe we didn't see eye to eye, we didn't share the same values.
00:46:25
And they really wanted to be a part of my life, but there just wasn't synergy there.
00:46:31
I could see making a tough decision and be like, well, I'm sorry, but we're not going to spend that much time together.
00:46:37
Because whatever reason, I could totally see where, let's just talk about the sleep thing that you were mentioning.
00:46:46
Where you got a lot on your mind and so it means that you don't sleep that well.
00:46:51
This is an argument that a lot of people make, I think, and why people don't like tracking their sleep is because they don't want to be shown how bad they are at it.
00:46:59
But there's root causes for you not being able to sleep.
00:47:03
And the big one is stress.
00:47:05
So if stress is causing you to not sleep, the long term solution is get rid of that stress.
00:47:12
And that stress can be from trying to sell your house.
00:47:17
It can be from a boss who's a jerk at your job.
00:47:21
It can be from a lot of different things.
00:47:24
And identifying that stress and recognizing whether it's worth it or not, that's kind of the whole idea behind all of these different areas is you decide for yourself what you're going to put up with and what's worth it.
00:47:37
But I could totally see, especially in an extended family scenario where you could say this person, they're causing stress in my life and yeah, they're family, but it's just not worth it.
00:47:47
I'm going to limit the amount of time that we spend together.
00:47:50
So I guess that was my approach to this family section, but sometimes it's tricky.
00:47:57
I mean, she mentions, go back to your point about being associated with Mark.
00:48:02
She worked at Facebook for a long time working with family is.
00:48:07
It's interesting.
00:48:08
Let's just say sketchy.
00:48:10
It can be very, very difficult.
00:48:12
She makes a point when you're working family blend together can be difficult to separate them.
00:48:16
Yes, yes, it can.
00:48:17
Working with family is tough.
00:48:18
Yes, yes, it is.
00:48:19
It doesn't mean it can't be done, but the more distinctions you make between those two, the better off, I think you're going to be.
00:48:31
And it's hard when you have one view of where the lines are and people that you're working with who are also family members have a different view of where those lines are.
00:48:41
Right, right.
00:48:42
Yeah, for sure.
00:48:43
I just want to call out one thing like you were talking about tracking sleep.
00:48:48
I don't use sleep cycle of any kind, like any actual technical sleep tracker, but I do track my stress, mood and amount of sleep every day in the bullet journal, of course.
00:49:04
Yep.
00:49:05
That's the way to do it.
00:49:06
If you want to see how I do that, I've got some stuff on analog Joe.com where we've gone through some of that.
00:49:14
But what I've just been doing is like that shows me a correlation of as my stress goes up, I can generally see how my sleep falls as I look across that graph.
00:49:26
And that tells me a lot as far as like, okay, what's going, so then I can see like as my stress starts to climb.
00:49:34
Like, I know that means I need to get to bed sooner because I generally will take longer to get that amount of sleep whenever I do that.
00:49:43
So anyway, yep, that's a side diversion from family here, but I'm with you in that like family will pick you.
00:49:51
And every time I come home from work, the girls are super excited and it's like, well, they just picked me in that moment.
00:49:59
If I'm not there and I'm thinking about something else, I have not been effective in that day.
00:50:07
So I feel like you have to pick that one.
00:50:09
Exactly. What are you going to do at that point? Are you going to be frustrated that they want to be with you?
00:50:14
Or, right.
00:50:16
So just roll with the punches.
00:50:19
You know, that's the only thing I've learned during this whole quarantine thing is my kids are barging into my office all the time.
00:50:24
I do my best to say, like, don't interrupt me right now. Got a hue light for the basement stairs that's red right now to tell everybody that I'm recording, but Malachi may still come in.
00:50:34
Yeah.
00:50:35
You know, and if that happens, it happens. You know, it's not the end of the world. Even if I'm in the flow and I'm cranking out the words, like when that interruption happens, recognize the interruption happens and just go with it.
00:50:47
If it's right to do something fun. At that point, you know, I can be all upset that I was interrupted and it's going to take me while I get back into the flow, or I can be like, yeah, we may as well just take a break right now and go show hoops or something.
00:50:59
Sure. Sure.
00:51:01
The next one on this list is fitness.
00:51:04
And some people make a huge priority out of this and they'll have an hour, two, three, four hours a day of fitness.
00:51:12
I've been back and forth on this one. I've had times in my life where I've done 45 minutes and done a bike ride, you know, three or four times a week.
00:51:23
I've done seasons where I do just 10 minutes in the morning and we just do a quick, simple yoga practice. So like, I've had those scenarios.
00:51:32
Right now, I don't have one at all.
00:51:36
Which as an ADD person is not always great because that's super helpful for someone in my situation. But I simply don't take the time for it.
00:51:47
Like, there are too many other things that I feel are more important. So if there's one of these that I'm not going to pick, it's going to be this one.
00:51:53
Right. Because I'm picking family and my work and making sure I get enough sleep.
00:51:59
Like, those are things I'm picking over fitness, time with friends, we'll get to that. So like, choosing fitness is just not a thing I'm going to do.
00:52:08
I just don't find myself doing that right now.
00:52:11
Once I've got some of all these big transitions in life completed, I may revisit that. But that's at least half a year or more out, at least if not longer.
00:52:23
So I won't be picking that one for a while.
00:52:26
So let me ask you, do you still have a meditation habit?
Because fitness is anything related to physical and emotional health, she says. And I agree with this.
00:52:41
Sure.
00:52:42
But that's not what you think of when you think of fitness.
00:52:46
It involves movement. Not sit still and don't do anything.
00:52:51
And that's not the story, the moral of the story that she tells either.
00:52:56
Because she talks about how she ran the Chicago Marathon.
00:53:00
And she trained forever. This was a goal that she had. She did it. She almost died. And she's like, "I'm never doing that again."
00:53:08
I probably, but you get my point. She's like, "That was awful. I never want to do that again."
00:53:13
Okay. So I have been there. I have done that exact same thing in my comment in the mind of my life.
00:53:20
Because this isn't the way to do it.
00:53:23
So not to rehash the entire story because I feel like I tell it too often.
00:53:28
But I went from not running to running a half marathon. And I did it the goal oriented way where I picked my race.
00:53:35
I'm going to be ready for this race. I over trained my patella tendon slipped off of my kneecap the week before the race.
00:53:43
Ran it anyways, finished. And I remember crossing the finish line and being like, "Now what?"
00:53:49
Okay. I accomplished that goal. I got to set another one.
00:53:52
Problem being, I knew my leg was messed up. And I had like 12 weeks of physical therapy ahead of me.
00:53:58
So I can't just pick another race at that point.
00:54:01
Yes.
00:54:02
So that's the problem with setting that major goal, making the plan and doing the thing.
00:54:08
And that's kind of the frame of reference for a lot of these different areas. But fitness specifically,
00:54:14
I felt like when I got done with this, she was advising people to do. And I think that is very dangerous.
00:54:24
I feel like a much better approach. And I learned this because I've since run a couple other half marathon since then.
00:54:32
Several other races. And I went about it not really caring about the time, caring about the distance.
00:54:39
I was just wanting to learn to enjoy the process. And I have done that. And so now I just enjoy getting out and going for a run.
00:54:48
I'm not worried about getting in a certain number of miles necessarily or hitting a certain pace.
00:54:54
If I do, that's cool. If I have a really great run, I've got a couple guys who are into running.
00:55:00
I'll send them a screenshot. Hey, check this one out. For the most part, they just smoke me.
00:55:05
But that's the way to do this sort of thing where it's sustainable and you're not going to give up
00:55:11
whether or not you hit that goal. I feel like Randy Zuckerberg and these type of people who would write books like this,
00:55:21
they are very goal oriented. And I can relate to that. I've been that way myself where they'll set the goal
00:55:30
and they will do absolutely whatever it takes to accomplish that goal.
00:55:36
And there is a certain amount of success that can be had with that. But my advice to anybody listening would be,
00:55:42
don't do it that way. You can maybe check something off of your list that way, but it's not going to be sustainable.
00:55:51
And habits are really the way to design the life that you want to live. That's my big thing with all of this stuff.
00:55:57
This is a method to make sure you're picking things that are important to you.
00:56:01
So are the daily questions which I continue to do from triggers? And I really like that method better than the pick three method.
00:56:08
Yeah. I mean, the chat's got the comments like, this is the atomic habits approach. It is a habit approach
00:56:15
where you're focusing on building in these routines that happen every single day that fit these five categories.
00:56:25
There's actually a category I want to talk about when we're done here that I think she missed.
00:56:29
But fitness is one that, you know, if you want to claim mental fitness, sure. Like, then yes, I'm picking this one every day
00:56:40
in a lot of different ways. But I don't think that's what she intends. She's talking about physical fitness in a lot of ways.
00:56:46
So that's one that, you know, I'm not choosing if I have to choose amongst these.
00:56:53
But friends, however, is one that I do choose regularly. And this is one that I try to make sure I'm doing.
00:57:01
Lately, it's been a lot of like phone calls and texts more than anything because, you know, COVID.
00:57:08
So that's a thing. And, you know, it's not great to do things that way.
00:57:15
You know, this is good for you and I because we get to see each other, you know, video to video.
00:57:19
And it's a nice, separately in your own homes.
00:57:22
Yes, yes. I have the shirt. I didn't wear it today, but I didn't mean to rep the hustle.
00:57:29
If you want, I'll send you an affiliate link for the hustle newsletter. But the thing that, you know, we're able to do via video isn't the same as if we were face to face.
00:57:43
And we know that. But it's something that we all struggle with right now because we're not all able to do a lot of the events and such that we used to.
00:57:52
So we'll get there, you know, eventually COVID will go away. But until then, like, there are other ways that we have to go through in choosing how to, and we have to be a lot more deliberate in how we're going about maintaining friendships and such.
00:58:07
Yep. Be mindful. That's really what a lot of this stuff comes down to. Be intentional.
00:58:13
That's the value, I think, of the pick three approach is it forces you to choose things that are important to you.
00:58:21
I think if you are coming from a background of just going through the motions and whatever happens today happens and I'm going to roll out the punches and you never think about how you actually want to spend your time and your energy and your attention.
00:58:34
Then this is probably breakthrough revolutionary.
00:58:39
This whole section on Friends specifically, this is probably the hardest one for me. She mentions that it's tough for introverts.
00:58:46
But one of the ways that she describes to do this, not getting into the personas necessarily is to make connections.
00:58:54
And this is something that I feel I am pretty good at. I want to be better at it. And I would argue that I want to be a better friend also.
00:59:07
She's got a whole list here on how to be a better friend. My one action item comes from this section, which is to find somebody radically different and befriend them.
00:59:19
I've already got somebody in mind. But I thought that, again, is like one of those nuggets that is really, really valuable, has nothing to do really with the majority of the content that she's trying to teach in this book.
00:59:34
But the different opinions, different voices, different perspectives, it's easy to befriend somebody who is just like you and sees things exactly the same way.
00:59:43
Interestingly, a lot of marriages tend to be people who are opposites that end up together.
00:59:49
And so you have to learn to see things from the other person's perspective.
00:59:55
I think Rachel and I are kind of that way. So I've kind of learned this ability a little bit. Definitely want to get better at it.
01:00:01
But I think that in terms of just like my friend's circle, I do tend to create the echo chamber.
01:00:09
People who think and believe the same way I do. And I don't think that's super healthy. I want to be able to understand things from other points of view.
01:00:21
So I want to try to change that a little bit.
01:00:24
Sure.
01:00:26
Yeah, I think that's very valid to try to find people who don't agree with you 100%.
01:00:32
It helps you build that empathy muscle, right?
01:00:34
Because then you're able to understand other perspectives a little better. I try to do that.
01:00:40
I have a number of friends who are completely opposite in almost every way.
01:00:46
You know, we're a big homeschooling family and I've got one set of friends that are, why would you ever want to?
01:00:53
Yeah.
01:00:54
Like they're on that side of the spectrum and people are there. That's fine.
01:00:58
I understand what they're saying. It makes a lot of sense. I just don't agree with it.
01:01:03
That's all it is. In this particular case, they can't see the other side of the coin.
01:01:09
So it's definitely a one-sided understanding. So to me, it's good to have situations like that.
01:01:17
It does help you quite a bit.
01:01:20
As far as picking friends goes, you know, if friends need something, it can become a thing where you can take your family and friends and combine those two into one.
01:01:32
Sure.
01:01:33
Like those can become one thing when you pick it.
01:01:36
So the specific scenarios I'm thinking of, if you have people over, which, COVID, so there's that, if you have people over and you have your friends over and they bring their kids, like you're kind of melding all those things together.
01:01:51
It can definitely get to be like that.
01:01:54
There are cases depending on how you want to define work. You could combine work, family and friends and fitness all into one entity. Like it can all be one thing.
01:02:06
Be careful though.
01:02:07
Yes, I know.
01:02:08
It's difficult. But you know, the things I'm thinking of specifically is if someone has a catastrophe that happens, I'm specifically thinking of what's gone on in Iowa because I was down there not long ago, helping remove traffic.
01:02:23
Remove trees from everything.
01:02:26
And if you don't know what happened, it was the retro, I think is what it's called. The specific area I was in, they had 143 mile an hour straight line wins for 45 minutes street.
01:02:37
Imagine the damage that'll do in Iowa. So anyway, that's in that scenario, you're doing work.
01:02:47
You're trying to help people put things back together. And when you're doing that, you're meeting with friends and you're doing it together. You're bringing your family along and you're doing it together.
01:02:58
It's definitely a fitness activity.
01:03:01
Them logs big.
01:03:03
So like you're putting four of these things into one bucket when you do scenarios like that.
01:03:10
And again, I'm stretching maybe the definition of what she would say is work, which is why I think there's potentially a sixth category.
01:03:18
Because how do I, where do I put things like changing the oil in my car?
01:03:24
Where do I put mowing the lawn? Is that work? Given the way she defined it and talked about it, it doesn't fit there.
01:03:31
So where do I put those things? I have general maintenance around a house, a vehicle, life in general.
01:03:42
Where does that stuff land? In my case, I'm doing a lot of that with my kids. So I'm combining family with that. But where does it go?
01:03:51
If I'm picking three, there's this other thing that's fighting those three choices. So there's got to be like a slush pick of sorts, a category that's not accounted for.
01:04:05
Because as you start thinking, taking the trash out, this thing gets to be big when you start putting all these different routine tasks that have to happen into it.
01:04:14
So I don't know what to do with that. Given her structure and her architecture of this quote unquote system, I don't know what to do with it.
01:04:24
Does it fit anywhere, Mike? Did I miss something in this book? No, it's very possible.
01:04:29
I don't know where that admin stuff fits either.
01:04:34
Yeah, I think you could create your own separate category for that kind of stuff. If you have a bunch, I would probably have a separate category called church, because there's a couple different ministries I'm involved with.
01:04:49
And we're there almost every day. So that's worth picking. But then that's, no, I'm picking five and sometimes six categories.
01:05:00
I get the flexibility that she gives you at the end, but also I feel like that just enables you to say, see the system doesn't work.
01:05:10
Right, right. Because if you take this example, put an admin category in there that catches all your maintenance stuff, put church on there, put volunteer work on there.
01:05:22
Maybe those all go into work, that grouping. Maybe that's how you get 12 hours a day is because you're just using that as like a slush throw it in there.
01:05:31
I don't think so. If you start doing that, you know, pick three doesn't work because you have so many categories that you cannot balance that many categories.
01:05:42
Right. Because just from what we've talked about, we're up to seven, maybe eight, depending on how you want to count this.
01:05:49
If you're picking three, it's impossible for you to get those well balanced and well personal growth category.
01:05:55
Yeah, maybe because I read every single night. Does that mean?
01:06:00
You know, do you get what I'm saying? Like you can't keep all these things imbalanced and yet overall balanced if you're only picking three each day.
01:06:08
Yep. Especially when I'm picking sleep every day.
01:06:11
Yeah. And that's why I love the daily questions because it's not tied to an outcome. It's simply, did you make your best effort to do whatever?
01:06:21
And then you have no limit on the number of things that you want to ask yourself questions for.
01:06:26
And just giving yourself an arbitrary zero to 10 rating.
01:06:30
If you added three more things to your daily questions, that's not even adding three additional seconds that takes you to fill it out.
01:06:38
Super simple, super quick. But I guess, you know, the big takeaway here again is just the intentionality.
01:06:44
So if there's one thing to be taken from this book, it's that be intentional about your choices and how you're going to spend your precious mental resources and the time that you have available.
01:06:54
One other thing I do want to call out from the friend section though. Well, two things actually.
01:07:00
She mentions that sometimes you have to recognize when a friendship is toxic.
01:07:04
Absolutely. This reminded me that action item I had where I went through and I raided all the people in my life.
01:07:10
You didn't make that public, did you? I did not make it public. I told you what your rating was. And that's all I'm going to do.
01:07:18
Interestingly, okay, so I'll mention a little story about this. Rachel's brother in law. Sorry, Rachel's brother. So my brother in law works at he runs a drive through coffee shop near the co-working space that I use.
01:07:33
I used to go to back in the day before COVID. And I would walk over there and get coffee and I walked over there.
01:07:40
And he was working there shortly after we recorded that episode. So I told him about that rating system. And he asked me like, well, what's my rating?
01:07:49
I'm like, oh, don't worry. Because his name is Christopher. I'm like, you're C++.
01:07:56
Nice. So we call him C++ now.
01:08:01
But for the most part, that list is private. The other thing though from this section on Friends, page 204. And this again, recognized that she worked at Facebook for a while.
01:08:15
But she mentions as for social media, it can enhance our ability to make friends and to nurture existing friendships. My note is all capitals. Yeah, right.
01:08:26
How many stories have you heard about relationships and marriages that have fallen apart because of Facebook?
01:08:35
I get the point that she's trying to make and it's totally in how you use it. But the default for just about everybody is not positive.
01:08:43
I mean, just go back to digital minimalism by Cal Newport or probably 80% of the books that we have read.
01:08:51
I'll talk about it almost. There's just so much of it. Exactly. The negative effects of social media. So I disagree with that. I recognize where she's coming from. She kind of has to say that.
01:09:03
But I disagree with it a lot. Well, that's the culture too. And pay attention to how she says that. It can create and nurture those.
01:09:15
If you pay attention to Mark or in this case her or any of the communication that comes out of the Facebook group, there's always this little qualifier there saying, if you use this correctly, it can do this thing.
01:09:30
But people don't look at Sherry Turkle and that whole book Reclaiming Conversation and all of the people, all the research she did about the young people who were frustrated with the way that social media, and I know it's bigger than social media in that book, but that's a big part of it.
01:09:43
That's what people are addicted to on their phones. So when you have an issue with your phone, most likely it's you have an issue with social media number one. And then after that, it's probably email.
01:09:53
Yes, and with you. The last section of this entire book is picking your three. And the basis of what I found in this was a whole bunch of worksheets and data collection systems.
01:10:08
Yeah. It's more than that. She's just trying to bring us to a summary of everything here. I think because she didn't have enough words to make a book. So she...
01:10:21
You've got to have three sections, Joe. You've got to have three sections. Yeah, you have to have three sections. She definitely has one that is 95% of the book.
01:10:30
It would not have been a New York Times bestseller if it didn't have three sections. They would have that have been like, nope, sorry, you're one section short.
01:10:37
But she has these charts that you could fill in and say, okay, on Monday, I picked these three. And on Tuesday, I picked these three. And then it can give you a rundown of if you got it balanced.
01:10:47
Right. This is an appendix, not a section, but it's... Yes, exactly. Exactly.
01:10:54
I think that's a good point. It has to have three sections, especially in a book called Pick Three. Like it has to. So these are charts and appendices that were put into the regular book that I feel shouldn't have because she does have a little bit of a data interest.
01:11:12
That's some of her background and some of the marketing stuff she's done. So she's going to want that in here. I'm not... I don't see anyone using this. I just don't. At least not for an extended amount of time. It's a filler. It's my opinion.
01:11:32
It is. I feel like some of the questions that she mentions on the scorecard are worth considering. Oh, yeah, that I would see. Yeah.
01:11:40
The big thing she's trying to get people to recognize is how many times did you pick each category? Which categories are you picking fewer than a couple of times? And is that usual or unusual? Which ones are you picking a lot? Is that typical or is it an outlier?
01:11:53
How do your goals differ from what actually happened and what do you want next week to look like? Like I agree with all of that stuff. Just not the system behind it.
01:12:03
Right. Right. But this is what I try to do. Plan out my week ahead of time. What is my ideal week look like? I don't really like the goals part, but there's value in identifying your plan for the day and then figuring out how close you are to being able to stick to it.
01:12:22
I personally don't do that because by feel, I've got a pretty good handle on that at this point. But Kal Newport talked about that with his time blocking thing like he's got his plan and then how he actually spends his time. That can be really valuable.
01:12:33
It's one of the things that people recognize right away when they first start time tracking is that how you think you're spending your time is very different than how you are actually spending your time.
01:12:42
And it can be worthwhile once in a while to go back and make sure that you're not way off base on that. But I don't think it's something I want to do every single day.
01:12:50
And then the rest of this stuff just kind of like keeping tabs on. Am I picking the things that I really want to pick? If I say family is important to me, but I only pick it once a week.
01:12:59
You know, there's a discrepancy there and I should make some adjustments. Right. Right. I do have one thing I got to pick on in this though because my wife picked up this book.
01:13:09
She thumbed through it. She got to this section. She reads to Dallas. Give me a break. Close it and walks away.
01:13:18
And I agree. That's kind of ridiculous.
01:13:24
Yep. Yep. Totally. Nice.
01:13:30
What else you want to say about this, Mike? I feel like I'm done with it.
01:13:33
I do think it's interesting in this section. She talks about how there are only 10 possible combinations of the five different categories.
01:13:42
That I guess, you know, I never really thought about it until she mentioned it, but I kind of assumed there would be more than that.
01:13:50
I don't know. It's interesting. I'm not really sure what you do with that other than if you were to add like different levels of things.
01:13:59
So like the first one being the main priority, the second one being like, I also picked this one on the third one is kind of like an afterthought.
01:14:07
Like if you had different weights to the different things, I feel like that would be more useful, but it's interesting to think about how this really isn't rocket science.
01:14:17
Like you're not trying to create some grandiose plan every single day.
01:14:22
You're simply picking from a couple of options and that simplicity, I think, is what makes a system like this sustainable, but I'm definitely not using this system.
01:14:32
So, yes, I'm with you. Yeah, there's 10 different ways. Like if you pick in the order, doesn't matter. If the order does matter, then there's more.
01:14:40
My math is correct. If the order does matter, the math is 120 different ways that you can configure those.
01:14:48
But because if memory serves, it's five times four times three times two is the way that that works from a mathematical stance.
01:14:56
So if you start doing that math, there's a lot of different ways that you could do it, but because she's not putting priorities or orders on them, yeah, there's just the 10.
01:15:06
But again, I'm not going to go down this route. Do you have any action items from this one? Because I do not.
01:15:11
I do have the one, which was to find somebody radically different and befriend them.
01:15:19
So I don't count. Nope, you don't. And I'd like to make this somebody new.
01:15:29
But if not, I know that there are people in my life already that would fit this category that I could just invest a little bit more in.
01:15:40
Sure. But it would be nice, I think, to be open-minded enough to recognize somebody like this that I wouldn't really consider a friend yet.
01:15:50
Make a new friend. Yep. Yep. Exactly. That would definitely get me outside my comfort zone.
01:15:56
There you go. So that's the action item stretch goal, I guess, is somebody that's not currently a friend.
01:16:02
It's a stretch goal. I like it. Are we going to add stretch goals to? Let's not do that.
01:16:10
All right. I guess that brings us to style and rating. There's a point I want to make here from a style stance in that I felt like I was reading a memoir of a celebrity that I disagreed with.
01:16:26
Did you feel that way? There was so many of these stories like, "I did this and then I did that and then I did that and then here's the thing you should learn from what I did."
01:16:36
I don't know. I mean, when you describe it that way, I think of the art of asking.
01:16:44
Yeah, that's valid. Definitely wasn't that.
01:16:48
Yes. Yeah. It had a, from a writer's stance, there was a lot of word choices and sentence structures that made me think of someone a generation younger than us that tends to throw extra words in unnecessarily.
01:17:12
So I had a hard time resonating with her just because the way that she was writing just did not register for me.
01:17:19
So just from a stylistic stance, I struggled with that. Sure.
01:17:23
So you start combining these things. Okay. I don't like your system. I think it has some major flaws. I don't like the way you write.
01:17:33
I think you have maybe a narcissistic approach to what you're telling us. You think you've done things so well.
01:17:43
I just didn't like it.
01:17:47
And when it comes to, should I recommend this to people or not? I will not, absolutely.
01:17:54
But in place of it, I would put something like essentialism or maybe atomic habits would potentially fit that bill.
01:18:02
There are other books that do the type of things she's trying to do significantly better.
01:18:07
I'm kind of shocked that it made New York Times bestseller, but I also understand some of the logistics of how you can get that done.
01:18:15
A lot of it has to do with marketing and dollars to get those titles. I get that aside. How do I rate this?
01:18:26
It's definitely not a five. I feel like it doesn't fit a four. Putting it in the middle of the three seems wrong.
01:18:40
Trying to go down to a two seems like a bit far just because I think that. See now I'm like thinking out loud as we do this after people loved my method of doing that with your quiz.
01:18:54
So I feel like two is going too far down. I think I'm going to put it 2.5. I think that's where I'm going to put it because there are a few things that will otters putting it at a one.
01:19:04
So I think there are a few things in here. It's encouraging to some degree. Like when she's going through these different personas, it's kind of interesting to see where you would fit on those different categories within these five.
01:19:18
So there are some good pieces you can pull from it. I just don't think it fits as far as a book to really help you get a feel for how to unbalance and thus overall balance what you're trying to do.
01:19:33
And have an effective life. I don't think this is the book to do that. But again, there are some nuggets in there that I have a hard time saying are bad. So I can't say the entire book is bad. You should never read this. It's a one.
01:19:45
There are some small things there. So I'll put it at 2.5. That's where I'm going to land.
01:19:51
All right. Well, the book that you want to recommend to people who are interested in this topic is the one thing. I feel like that is the holy grail in terms of creating intentional imbalance, which is really what this book is all about.
01:20:10
That's where that idea, intentional imbalance actually came from for me. And so much better at defining the different areas and which ones you should prioritize.
01:20:22
Interestingly, in that book, if you remember, they talked about all the different areas and you're trying to juggle all these balls.
01:20:28
And they talk about in that book, how work is the one that's rubber. So you should feel free to grab that one and chuck it anytime you want.
01:20:36
That's totally not the feeling you get when you read this book. It's exactly the opposite because work has been her life for a significant portion of her life.
01:20:46
But I agree with a lot of the things that you said about this book and I'm not a big fan of it either.
01:20:53
I think the, to separate the content from the style for a moment, I actually kind of liked the style. There's lots of stories in here. I feel like she's a pretty good storyteller.
01:21:05
She does a good job of not just telling her story, but bringing in other people who are interesting and kind of fill in some of the holes.
01:21:17
Because if you're talking about these five areas, one of the obvious struggles you have is that not all these things are going to be as important to you as one another.
01:21:29
So you've made your choices and you kind of have to have some examples of people who have made other choices and prioritize other things and the kind of results that they've gotten.
01:21:38
So I feel like she did a good job with that. I do stand by my original text message to you where the thing on the top of the book says, you know, one sentence and then it goes on for 200 something pages.
01:21:51
My fears were realized there.
01:21:56
This definitely, you know, as much as we harp on productivity and sell help books as being like 250 pages that could have been 80, like one third the length.
01:22:07
This one could have been even shorter. We didn't even really describe the different personas and that's because they don't really matter.
01:22:16
Right. She literally in these sections is talking about like superhero monetizer. She's literally just plugging in, work, sleep, whatever, into the definitions.
01:22:27
So monetizer is somebody that makes money by helping other people prioritize, fill in the blank.
01:22:32
Okay, so we really need to have a section on a monetizer in every single one of these. No, no, we don't.
01:22:39
I also, like I said at the beginning, feel really bad. We're two white dudes complaining about.
01:22:46
We are. We are. It's so true. So true.
01:22:50
So I recognize that. But again, I can't control that. All I can really do is, you know, share my reaction, which is not that positive because I feel like we're coming from very different places, different perspectives on this stuff.
01:23:07
I, if this works for her, great. This isn't the thing that I would recommend other people to look at.
01:23:14
I disagree with a lot of the content that's in here. I think I'll, I don't know.
01:23:19
I do think that the stories make it a little bit of an entertaining read. It's not something that, like I was dreading picking up the book and reading every single night as I was going through this.
01:23:33
So it's at least an entertaining read. There's just not a whole lot of meat here, I think.
01:23:40
So I'm going to rate it 3.0. And yeah, I'm not going to be recommending this one to people if you really want to dive into the whole topic of intentional imbalance, pick up the one thing instead.
01:23:53
It's very valid. Very valid. 3.0 and a 2.5. I'm writing it down so I don't lose it.
01:24:01
All right. I will happily put this one on the shelf, Mike, which means the next book up is your pick, which is how to be everything by Emily Wopnik.
01:24:13
We're going to become multi-potential lights, Joe. Yes. I probably am one already.
01:24:19
Yeah, I think you and I both have multi-potential light tendencies, if nothing else.
01:24:24
So I'm kind of interested to see what this book, I haven't started this one yet. I know about it because Jay Miller has mentioned it to me previously.
01:24:35
I am interested in the topic and I feel like this one could go one of two ways very quickly.
01:24:41
Yeah, yeah, it could. It could.
01:24:46
So, you know, it has a good point. It's like we're going from pick three things to pick them all.
01:24:51
Yep, exactly. That was kind of the thought process behind it.
01:24:55
Well, the one following that, this is one that's been heavy on my mind considering, you know, we're looking at buy, sell house, but the minimalist home by Joshua Becker, we did a book by Becker, the less is more, the more is less.
01:25:15
Which one is it? I was going to back up. The less is more. And this one, I have a lot of interest in simply because I want a minimalist home.
01:25:25
I don't know how far down that path I want to go, but I'm hoping this will help bridge that gap.
01:25:32
That's the hope. Speaking of gaps, what's your gap book? Did not intend that segue, but I'll take it.
01:25:38
I do have a gap book. It is the listening book, Discovering Your Own Music by W.A. Mathau.
01:25:47
I think that's how you say the last name. This is a book that I heard recommended on the Productivity as podcast.
01:25:56
Mike Vardy was interviewing Derek Sivers, which?
01:26:01
Sivers. Okay. Sorry. Yeah. I don't know how to pronounce his name, but it sounds like a really smart dude.
01:26:10
That was a really interesting interview. The founder of CD Baby, and I've read his other book, Anything You Want.
01:26:17
But he mentioned this book specifically. He just seems like an experimenter, you know, somebody who is naturally curious about a lot of different things.
01:26:28
And this is one of the books that he had mentioned throughout the course of that interview, not like a big thing.
01:26:34
Like, "Oh, you got to get this one." But just when he said it in the point that he was making, I was like, "Oh, that sounds really interesting."
01:26:39
I know that listening is something I want to get better at anyways, so I'm going to go through this one.
01:26:44
I have a feeling this one might make a good bookworm book at some point in the future, but I'm going to take the first stab at it before I drag you down that path with me.
01:26:55
All right. I'm game. If you want to go down that road.
01:26:59
[laughs]
01:27:00
I guess that brings us to the end here. So if you would like to get a hold of Mike's Mind Node files, I know he's referenced that a couple times here.
01:27:12
You can do that at club.bookworm.fm/membership. So if you go to bookworm.fm/membership, it'll get you there as well.
01:27:20
It'll redirect you where you need to be. But it's just a few bucks a month, helps support the show, helps us keep the lights on, and helps us to pay the hosting and such for those things.
01:27:30
But if you'd like to support the show, you like bookworm, you'd like it to stick around. That's the best way to do it.
01:27:36
You can join the club. Become a big part of the bookworm club. We'd love to have you there.
01:27:40
Yes, yes, we would.
01:27:42
I'm also going to throw out a plug here. I should have done this earlier in the episode. But relay is raising funds for St. Jude during September.
01:27:52
So if you only have five bucks to spend, go give it to the kids that are dying from cancer.
01:28:00
Right.
01:28:01
If you have some extra and you want to support bookworm, that's cool. But St. Jude is an amazing place.
01:28:07
I kind of can't wrap my head around it. I heard since they were founded, which is now 40-50 years ago, it's a research hospital, they have changed the mortality rate for childhood cancer from something like 80% to 20%.
01:28:22
So where it used to be four out of five kids would die when they were diagnosed with cancer. Now four out of five survive, including Steven Hackett's son, who was a patient there in St. Jude doesn't charge any of the families that received care there a dime, which knows much about it.
01:28:36
As much as we're going through stuff right now, imagine having a kid with cancer and how are you going to pay those medical bills?
01:28:45
Well, with St. Jude, you don't have to worry about that. That's kind of amazing. So relay is raising funds during September, which is childhood cancer, where in this month, and if you want to donate to that, you can go to stjude.org/relay.
01:28:59
But thank you to everybody who supports the show. If you are reading along with us, pick up "How to Be Everything" and we will talk to you in a couple of weeks.