Bookworm Transcripts

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-Joe, you posted a picture of a keyboard and it piqued my interest.

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-It's a very nice keyboard. I'm a fan.

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I would like one that's nicer yet,

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but it is pretty good.

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For the dollars I put into it, it's pretty solid. I'll say that.

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-What did you get?

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-Do I dare spell all the details out now?

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-Yes.

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-The story here is that I am putting in a standing desk at work.

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I actually have two desks now.

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Maybe three, depending on how you look at it.

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I have my desk that's in the office area.

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Then we have a video room where we do all of our video production stuff

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for our live streams on Sunday mornings and such.

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I put a standing desk in that room.

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As part of that, I wanted things to where I could dock in multiple places.

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One of those docks is here at home,

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where I'm at right now if you're watching the live feed.

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Hi.

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The other is at that desk that I can go sit at.

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Then the third is at my new standing desk.

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The desk I sit at at work has no external keyboard.

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I just use my laptop there, so I don't really dock there.

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The standing desk, however,

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I intend to spend a decent amount of time there.

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I needed a dock, USB hubs, all the stuff,

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and decided to put in a mechanical keyboard there.

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And church, let me purchase one on their dime.

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So I picked up a keychron K8.

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So it's the 10 keyless version of their keyboard.

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And then I floated my way over to wasdkeyboards.com,

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set up a custom printed set of key caps

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and replaced all the key caps on said keyboard.

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Oh, I should note the switches on this for the mechanical nuts.

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Are the Gateron Browns.

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Because I have Cherry MX Browns in my DOS keyboard,

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which is sitting right in front of me at this moment.

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And I really, really, really have been wanting to compare the cherries to the Gaterons.

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So that experiment has begun.

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So yes, I have a new keychron.

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Nice.

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I know somebody else who just got a K8, spoiler alert, I guess.

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But I'll plug the focus podcast I do at David Sparks

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because we nerd it out about a lot of keyboard stuff in the other numbers show there.

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So I'm curious since I just had that conversation with David,

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like with the key caps, did you get PBT? Are they ABS?

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They're ABS.

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Okay. Are they double shot?

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No.

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Okay.

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Because obviously this is way down the rabbit hole.

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It is very far down the rabbit hole.

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Yeah. I do think I'm going to make a prediction right now.

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You are going to end up with eventually a new set of PBT key caps in what sort of profile did you get?

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This is the Cherry.

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Cherry profile?

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Okay.

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So a non-cherry profile, if I had to guess, I would say either an MDA,

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which is what I've got on the Melgeek Big Bone key caps that I've got.

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Or the MT3, which is the other one that nerds like us seem to really like.

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Yep. It's true.

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And you will upgrade your switches.

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That's what I got in my hot swapple cage at the beginning too, is the browns.

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Yeah.

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But I did eventually put in new ones of Holy Pandas from Drop,

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which are like an upgraded tactile switch.

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I know that's what you like too.

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So you will get another tactile switch, but I'm going to say maybe three to six months before you are unsatisfied with the browns.

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Sure.

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Sure.

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I don't know if I'm going to...

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Because here's the key, and here's the kicker.

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Not everyone realizes that a lot of... And you've probably noticed this too, because you've had both a DOS and a keychron.

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Mm-hmm.

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People don't realize that the structure of it changes the way the switches operate.

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I shouldn't say they operate. It changes the way they feel.

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And having the cherry browns on this DOS, as opposed to the Gateron browns on the keychron,

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I know a lot of people prefer the cherries over the Gaterons.

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That seems to be a fairly common opinion.

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But at this moment, that keyboard, the keychron, I'll take over this DOS any day.

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Yes, absolutely. Did you get the aluminum frame?

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Yes.

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Yeah, that's why.

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And I think that's why. It's heavier.

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Mm-hmm.

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So it doesn't ring like this one does.

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I do know, knowing the way that I type, like I like that cherry profile on it,

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but I'm not against going to like an MT3.

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Again, this is like Harley's saying in the chat,

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this is a whole 'nother language.

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That's true.

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I don't know about swapping keycaps though, or PBT,

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because like, yes, it's a different material.

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Yes, you can go double shot and get them to be nicer and such,

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but like I get that the ones I have will shine after a while.

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People talk about that.

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That's no big deal.

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Yeah, it's a fairly cheap set of keycaps that I've put on it in regards to keycaps.

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But here's the kicker, and this is why I do that.

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Joe types on a Devorac layout, which means that your standard

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QWERTY layout keyboard keycaps I cannot use.

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So whenever I'm trying to purchase said keycaps,

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I always will have to purchase two sometimes three different sets of keycaps

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to get one keyboard functional.

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That gets pricey.

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That is pricey.

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That's not just Devorac though.

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I mean, that's the keycap group buys work.

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You got to buy like the alphas and then like the tenkey lists that I've got.

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You've got the alphas and then you've got the modifier keys.

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And then because it's a, I use it with a Mac, you can get like separate Mac modifiers,

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but not all the modifiers.

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So you got to get both of those.

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Right.

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And then usually there's like a separate set for the function keys.

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And it adds up, but it does make a big difference.

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And you already told me you like the stability of the aluminum frame.

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So if you get PBT keycaps, that will make it feel even more solid.

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Can.

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Yeah.

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Well, you'll try mine and you'll be like, oh, that's nice.

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I need to get some.

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What I'm actually looking at doing is not, I think before I would swap to PBT or put in

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Holy pandas or glorious pandas or, which I think what you have is actually glorious pandas.

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There are two different types.

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Holy pandas is technically the vintage put together versions.

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So if you bought new ones, I think they're technically glorious pandas.

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If you buy them from drop, they basically go through the process, repackage them of combining

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the two sets together because it's, it's one, I forget the specifics, but it's one set of

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stems and one set of something else.

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And it's like a.

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The key.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yep.

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It is.

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It's, which is why it's fairly expensive in the world of switches.

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But anyway, what I'm getting at is I've looked at purchasing a PCB, the plate, the whole thing

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and just custom building one.

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That's what I'm debating doing because for the cost for me, whenever I'm doing all of

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this, it's expensive enough that I might as well, I might as well just custom build what

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I want.

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And you can get one that's significantly heavier, heavier has a brass plate in the back of it

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and it just sits super, super nice.

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So anyway, keyboards.

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I'm very happy for you.

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It looks really nice.

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I don't think you're done.

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That's all.

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No, I don't intend to be done.

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I just know like the keycap thing, last thing I'll say, I looked at whenever I was looking

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at doing this, the drop had the Apple.

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What was the 1983?

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What was the 1984?

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Yep.

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The extended 2048.

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Yep.

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So yeah, so there you go.

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They had those available.

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I could get everything I wanted in that.

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You want to take a crack at what it was going to cost me to do that?

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Probably about 80 bucks, 90 bucks.

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210.

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That's what it was going to cost me to get what I needed.

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Wow.

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Because I had to buy so many of the subsets in order to get just a standard 10 keyless

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setup in Devorac with the, granted I wanted some of the colored function keys and stuff

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around it.

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Yep.

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So I wanted those.

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Yeah, I was going to be over $200 time.

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I got it all put together.

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Oh man.

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It's like, I can't justify that one.

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All right.

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Well, we can move on, but we don't really have any follow up.

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So figured we'd nerd out about keyboards for a little while.

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Keyboards.

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A couple that I mentioned in the last episode that I didn't really have anything specific

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I was going to do with.

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I was just messing around with the way that I was journaling, but was pretty happy with

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the way that it was working.

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So I mentioned like using different colored highlights for different journal entries.

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I never figured out a way to do this.

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I'm not doing this.

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What I'm doing is working great.

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I'm going to keep doing stuff in Rome.

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I'm going to keep using the journal entries and to keep doing the gratitude.

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I'm going to keep doing the daily questions.

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Yeah.

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I've messed with this enough.

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I'm just going to lean into what's, what's working.

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So sure.

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And you did not have any action items.

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So I think that means we are ready to talk about today's book, which I'm a little bit

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nervous about.

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Then equals freedom by Jack O'Willink.

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We read Extreme Ownership.

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Another Jacko book.

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We both really liked it.

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I think we both rated it 5.0.

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This book is good.

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We also read this the week that the government was almost overthrown in the US.

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It's true.

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So that made it a little bit tricky with all of it because he's the next marine.

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There's obviously a lot of military language in this book.

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Navy Seal.

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Yes, you're right.

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Navy Seal.

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I'm just pointing that out.

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People will point that one out right away.

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That's a big difference.

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You're right.

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And yeah, so I don't know.

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Did you have the same sort of reaction when you were going through this?

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Like maybe six months ago, this would have been an easier read, but kind of the tone

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that he uses throughout.

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I don't know.

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It kind of left a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth, to be honest.

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But I don't think that's his fault.

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Really?

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I can't say it struck me that way at all.

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I have a tendency to compartmentalize quite a bit.

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So I shouldn't say quite a bit.

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I do that on occasion.

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And then in this case, I did.

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And I can't say that I had, as I was watching what was going on in the Capitol, it was more

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like, my perspective was really people.

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Come on.

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Yeah.

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So reading this, I was very focused on me, not necessarily other people with it.

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Yep.

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Which is his intent.

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Yeah.

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So I think that's probably why it didn't really hit me that way.

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So it didn't leave a bad taste in my mouth.

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I have a lot of, like I've got my notes here.

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I don't normally share these, but here you go.

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I got my bank of notes.

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Maybe I should share these on the club.

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I just do it.

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I don't know if you can read it or not.

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But I have, what is it, number one on this list?

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Of course, a military dude will tell me to use discipline.

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That was my first note on this book.

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Yep.

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We'll get into that in a little bit here.

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But I will just point out a couple of these chapter titles.

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For lack of a better term, basically, every two pages is a chapter.

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It's kind of like the Seth Godin, the creative version of discipline by a Navy Seal.

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Yeah.

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It's that approach to the topic.

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It's well done, which we'll get into the specifics here.

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But some of these chapters are like Draw Fire, The War Path, Destroy Your Mode, Scorched Earth.

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So know that going in.

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If that's going to bother you, maybe you don't want to pick this one up.

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But I do agree with you that I think I'm able to distill the message that he's talking

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about and kind of look past some of that stuff.

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Sure.

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Because what he's got to say is pretty good.

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I think it's different than extreme ownership, that's for sure.

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It's basically all Jaco.

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It's all like his little bits of wisdom.

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The book is organized into really four different sections with a fifth.

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That's the appendix.

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So I put it in the outline, but I don't think we'll really spend a whole lot of time there.

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Part one is thoughts.

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Part two is actions.

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Part three is not labeled part three, but it's fuel feeding the machine.

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Part four, Repair and Maintenance, Injury Prevention and Recovery.

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And then part five, that's the appendix.

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All of the workouts that he recommends.

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I want to point out real quick before he gets too far, just off of those titles.

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I think he intentionally chose not to go part three, part four.

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Because in his mind, he's talking about thoughts that then drive actions.

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And then he's got the fuel, Repair and Maintenance and then the appendix.

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And I think those last three pieces are like an augmentation to part two.

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I agree with you.

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However, the format of the book itself, like the section titles, look exactly the same.

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There are two page spread with a big title with what's going to be covered next.

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And so there isn't a clear classification.

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If you're going to do a standard outline, like this one is under this one.

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But that's the impression I got to when I was going through it.

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So.

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Yeah.

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How long did it take you to read this?

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I'm not going to be wrong at all.

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This was a very quick one for me.

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I actually went like I actually flipped through the entire book this morning before this, just

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as a refresher because it's been, I don't know, a while back now since I finished reading

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it.

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So I wanted to bring it back in my mind.

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And it only took about 20 minutes to flip through it all and have it all recur where it

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normally would take me about an hour to do something like that, which is why I don't

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normally do it.

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Yeah.

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So it was it's a very, very quick one.

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It's also a very beautiful book.

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If you can describe a military book with a bunch of pictures of guys yelling at you.

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That's beautiful.

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But it is this black and silver.

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This is like an embossed cover.

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It's kind of like a cloth cover.

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And then all of the pages have their full bleed pages and they have the block lettering,

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which kind of fits the military aesthetic and then different pictures that they use for

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the background.

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My favorite one of those is I think it's put down the donut where it's Jaco like standing

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there with his arm, like pointing at somebody like is yelling at you.

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But it's so it's very visually interesting.

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And I feel like it really fits the message that he's trying to get out, which is all

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about discipline.

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There's some interesting stuff in here because he specifically speaks to some things that

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we have heard in the productivity space for many years.

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And he's like, no, that's wrong.

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And I don't think I believe Jaco, but we'll talk about some of that.

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Sure.

00:16:18

So let's jump in here with part one.

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We'll break this down and talk about the different parts.

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I've jotted down some bullet points under each one of these because again, these chapters

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are basically two pages, a lot of times, sometimes three, sometimes one with some text

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on the page and it's not even like you would typically read text in a printed book.

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It's kind of artistically designed.

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You know, he's putting the words different places, making stuff bigger so that it pops

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and it's almost like you're reading a visual of a podcast.

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Maybe that's where a lot of this stuff came from.

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I don't know.

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I don't listen to the Jaco podcast.

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I know some people do.

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I don't either.

00:16:59

Yeah.

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But so this first section, if you look at the mine note file for this, this is like three

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force of the mine note file.

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It's this one section.

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So the mine note file is the first branch is orange.

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So there's a lot of orange in this one, but I grabbed a couple of things here that kind

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of jumped out to me.

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And I think there's some topics here that we can kind of dissect.

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And we, I really don't have like a specific direction for this.

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I kind of want to see where this is going to go.

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But obviously the place to start here because the title is discipline equals freedom is

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to talk about discipline itself.

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He defines it very first chapter, the way of discipline.

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He says that the shortcut is a lie.

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There is no easy way and that discipline is the root of all good qualities.

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You're going to hear that theme over and over as you go through this book.

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It doesn't matter what you feel like.

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Just shut up and do it.

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Ah, on one hand, I don't really like that.

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But on the other hand, I feel like maybe that's what I needed.

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Like as I'm going through this and he's telling me to get up early and stuff like that, I'm

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like, Hey, yeah, you know what?

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I should get up early here.

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So maybe it's effective.

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I don't know.

00:18:07

What was your response to this?

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This the thing that kept going through my head was the Nike slogan, just do it.

00:18:12

Yeah.

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I had that recurring through my brain the entire time.

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I read this.

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I have kind of a split opinion on this, partially because and you and I were talking about it

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this beforehand.

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If yesterday I formally had my ADD diagnosed and in the in the middle of experimenting

00:18:35

on medication with it, which is why today might be interesting.

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But flipping through that this morning, being on medication for that, it hit me very differently

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than it did when I first read it because when I first read it, I was like, dude, you

00:18:50

don't know my brain.

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This doesn't work.

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You can't just tell me to just get up and go like just do the thing you got to do.

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Like that doesn't work.

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So I was very frustrated with him when I did that previous when I went through it the first

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time.

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And when I flipped through it this morning, I remember thinking, you know, being on medication

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at the time was like, maybe that would work.

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I don't know.

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So I'm not real sure my opinion on this at the moment because I it yes, that changes things.

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But I know that when I have people say, just don't do it.

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Yes, I get that that can work for some people.

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And at the same time he talks about excuses.

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Like there's always something you bring up.

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It's like, well, no, it's not going to work that way because of X, Y and Z.

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Like the donut just looks good.

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It's like, no, don't eat it.

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Grow up.

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Like that's essentially his message.

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So if you need a kick in the pants and you need a book to just motivate you, like this

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is it.

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Like, this is just especially this first section, like motivate, motivate, motivate.

00:20:00

That's what this is.

00:20:01

What do you think about the value of that approach for where we're at right now?

00:20:07

I mean, there's a lot of crazy stuff happening.

00:20:09

We're still in the COVID times.

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And I know when that all started, it was a shock to a lot of people, a lot of people,

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even if you were working from home, you got to figure things out because now everybody's

00:20:22

at home with you all the time.

00:20:24

And I remember doing a webinar with Sean Blonk when that started back to basics because

00:20:31

everything that you knew was overnight wrong.

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And I remember Sean sharing during that that he felt that even though he had all this stuff

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dialed in and his day to day didn't really change, that he was 75% effective from where

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he was prior.

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And I feel like when that happened, a lot of people just needed some permission not to

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be productive.

00:20:59

Jocko obviously would completely disagree with that.

00:21:02

Correct.

00:21:03

Yeah.

00:21:04

He would tell you that's a complete fail.

00:21:05

Yep.

00:21:06

So what do you think is the right approach here?

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Is it, you know what, just take it easy and eventually things will figure themselves out?

00:21:13

Is it, no, you just got to shut up and do it like Jocko's saying, is it something in

00:21:17

the middle?

00:21:18

It's a good question.

00:21:19

My sense is it's somewhere in the middle, but I think if you were to, this is the issue.

00:21:25

When you tell people you can go into the middle or if you tell people it's okay to be unproductive

00:21:32

in this period, you're giving them an excuse to not do things.

00:21:36

He talks to that specifically.

00:21:37

He's like, the problem with once is that it's never just once.

00:21:41

Correct.

00:21:42

Slippery slope.

00:21:43

So that's the issue that comes up here.

00:21:47

So you give people permission whenever you say you can do something in the middle.

00:21:51

You don't have to go to the extreme of what Jocko is going to.

00:21:56

I don't think that's bad for everybody, but I think this is where the value of the book

00:22:02

comes in too, because you have him telling you, get off the couch, get up at four in the

00:22:09

morning, do your massive workout in the morning, learn Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and keep

00:22:17

going whether you want to or not.

00:22:19

I feel fine.

00:22:20

Like that's another thing.

00:22:22

So I get his perspective as far as what I would do.

00:22:30

This is not something I would write, not something I would necessarily promote this

00:22:35

level of get stuff done, but at the same time, I'm very grateful for having read this too,

00:22:43

because it is exactly what we're talking about.

00:22:47

It is very motivating.

00:22:48

It makes you want to go do stuff.

00:22:50

Yeah.

00:22:51

It doesn't really matter what it is.

00:22:52

The one thing, like one of the things that I struggled with this, and he does address

00:22:56

it in some places here and there, but the vast majority of this motivation and the discipline

00:23:02

that he's talking about involves physical actions.

00:23:05

It's not necessarily thinking work.

00:23:10

It's physical work that he talks about almost all.

00:23:13

Even the pictures that are the backdrop for the words on the page that you were talking

00:23:17

about, they are all 100% involving a gym in some form.

00:23:24

Yep.

00:23:25

Did you catch that?

00:23:26

There are times when he's yelling, but if you pay attention in the background, he's

00:23:29

at a gym when that all happens.

00:23:32

So all of the photos here are from a gym.

00:23:35

So I kind of get, the part of this that kind of frustrated me was that this is geared almost

00:23:42

exclusively toward exercise.

00:23:45

He doesn't say that, but the tone is that.

00:23:50

It definitely is that.

00:23:51

You're right.

00:23:52

I think his approach is that if you take care of the body, if you push yourself physically

00:24:00

to become strong and you discipline yourself to eat the right things, then that is going

00:24:06

to affect all the other areas.

00:24:08

He does talk about how the mind is affected by the body, but it's not a huge emphasis.

00:24:12

You're right.

00:24:13

It's easy to lose the forest through the trees.

00:24:19

The thing I'm struggling with, Funky Mosquito talks about this in the chat.

00:24:24

Mentiones that they like Marshall Goldsmith's daily questions because you can have a poor

00:24:28

day without it being so binary.

00:24:30

There's actually a chapter in here called the binary code.

00:24:33

Yes, I was going to bring that up.

00:24:35

And he says there isn't anything in between.

00:24:38

It's just yes or no.

00:24:40

And I have that same thought of like, this feels very different than a lot of the stuff

00:24:47

that we have read.

00:24:49

And part of me wants to just tell Jaco, hey, lighten up buddy, don't you know where we

00:24:54

find ourselves right now?

00:24:56

But then every time I had that thought, I'm like, you know what?

00:25:00

I think he's right.

00:25:03

As much as I don't like it.

00:25:06

I think he's right.

00:25:07

I think he's very in your face, very direct and confrontational in his message.

00:25:15

But I don't think he's wrong in a lot of what he says.

00:25:20

Yeah, yeah.

00:25:22

And when he says stuff like willpower isn't real, you just do it and then the willpower

00:25:29

comes.

00:25:31

We read the willpower instinct.

00:25:33

We've heard forever that willpower is a finite resource and you got to conserve it.

00:25:38

And this is why Steve Jobs wore the same thing every day.

00:25:41

Yada yada yada.

00:25:42

I'm like, yep.

00:25:44

I've been in that place where I know he's right.

00:25:47

Like, if I just do the thing, whether I feel like it or not, it becomes easier to just

00:25:52

continue to do the thing.

00:25:55

So part of this, I'm reading it and I'm hearing him and I want to argue with him, but it's

00:26:00

a book.

00:26:01

I can't really argue with him.

00:26:02

It's not going to do anything.

00:26:03

And then part of me is like, you know what?

00:26:05

If you were to argue against this, you're really just hurting yourself anyways.

00:26:07

So just shut up like he says and do the thing.

00:26:11

Right.

00:26:12

Right.

00:26:13

I think you maybe have to come at this from a different angle too.

00:26:16

So there are a lot of people who are considered quote unquote successful to find that however

00:26:24

you like, whether that's spending time with family every day or releasing content every

00:26:31

30 seconds or, you know, whatever successful is, you can find people who have done that

00:26:40

or who have been in those shoes.

00:26:43

And then you can pay attention to what they do day to day and how they think.

00:26:48

Like generally you can learn how they think about things.

00:26:51

If you find the people who are doing the thing you want to do, determine what their

00:26:55

mindsets are, their mental models teaser to something you can start to adopt those.

00:27:04

If you consider that and think about what Jaco is doing here, think about the lifestyle

00:27:08

and the things that he does.

00:27:10

So he's a motivator as mosquito is saying in the chat, I think he has a supplements

00:27:16

business.

00:27:17

So that might be involved here as well.

00:27:19

So he actually doesn't talk about supplements in the book though.

00:27:22

He talks about the diet that he recommends, the caveman diet, which we'll get to.

00:27:28

Yep.

00:27:29

So look at Jaco's life and the things that he does or in this case, take a look at the

00:27:35

life of Navy seals after they've left military world.

00:27:43

And once they've left, once they have come back to civilian life, what are the things

00:27:49

that they generally do?

00:27:50

And if those things are things that you aspire to, the motivation and the way that Jaco thinks

00:27:56

is exactly what you need.

00:27:59

You see what I'm saying?

00:28:00

Like if that's the lifestyle that you want to pursue, I'm trying to remember I ran across

00:28:04

this on the Ugmunk site, Jeff Sheldon, because he's, Jeff Sheldon's actually coming to analog

00:28:10

Joe here in February, which will be nice.

00:28:13

So he's going to talk us through his analog card system.

00:28:16

Anyway, I was looking through their site and he has that classic story of the Chinese

00:28:22

fisherman that had had caught tuna and was coming back and he'd only caught so much for

00:28:27

his family for the day because he wanted to go home and spend time with his kids, sleep

00:28:33

late, sip on wine all afternoon.

00:28:36

These are the things that he wanted to do.

00:28:38

But the businessman says, you could go catch a whole bunch, you could earn a lot of money,

00:28:43

he goes back and forth with this fisherman and says, essentially, well, if I do all that

00:28:46

and I make all this money, then what?

00:28:48

It's like, well, once you've spent all your extra time earning all this money, once you're

00:28:52

done with that, you can sleep in late and you can spend your afternoon sipping wine and

00:28:56

go home to the kids at night.

00:28:57

It's like, well, that's what I'm doing now.

00:29:02

So it's that mindset too.

00:29:04

So depending on which side of the spectrum you want to sit on, I think you have to decide

00:29:10

if you want to dive in deep with what Jaco is saying here or if you want to back off

00:29:16

from that a bit.

00:29:17

If you want to go to bed early and sleep late and not be up at 4.30am and take a picture

00:29:22

of your watch like Jaco does every day.

00:29:24

If you want to, I'm not kidding, check out his Instagram.

00:29:28

So if you want to do that, go for it.

00:29:32

I think that's a bit extreme for me.

00:29:35

I don't think I'm going to go down that road, but I can see why some people do because again,

00:29:39

that lifestyle is one that I think a lot of people would aspire to.

00:29:44

I think maybe there is a version of this though that is general enough to say this is the

00:29:54

way.

00:29:56

Maybe it's not getting up at 4.30, but maybe it is going to bed earlier getting up earlier

00:30:01

than you currently are.

00:30:03

I do think there's a lot of stuff in here that rings of truth to me.

00:30:08

Like on page 39 he talks about how the people who are successful decide they are going to

00:30:12

be successful.

00:30:13

Now he's very goal driven.

00:30:16

I'm not a huge fan of goals in the traditional sense of the word, but really what he's talking

00:30:23

about here is a vision and values that you are working towards.

00:30:28

And that I agree with.

00:30:29

If you have a strong vision for what you want your life to look like, then show up every

00:30:35

day, have a bias towards action, which is essentially what he's saying.

00:30:39

That seems like great advice to me, to be honest.

00:30:41

And some of the stuff he said I think brings a different way of looking at it that I hadn't

00:30:45

really thought of it that way before.

00:30:47

He talks about focus, he talks about motivation, but the way that he talks about it is a little

00:30:55

bit different.

00:30:56

There was a chapter in here called Not Feeling It.

00:31:01

And this is again the bias towards action idea.

00:31:04

And he says, "Do it anyway, even if you're just going through the motions, that's kind

00:31:09

of like James Clear atomic habits.

00:31:11

Don't miss a day.

00:31:12

The bad workouts are the important ones."

00:31:14

And then he talks about procrastination.

00:31:20

And this I thought was kind of brilliant.

00:31:22

This is one of my big aha moments from this book.

00:31:25

He says, "Precrastinate on taking a break."

00:31:27

I never really thought of it that way.

00:31:30

Usually when I think of procrastination, it's like, "Well, I have this article to write

00:31:32

because I have this deadline that's due and I drag in my feet because I'm not feeling

00:31:37

it."

00:31:38

And he's saying, "Well, flip that on its head basically and when you're not feeling

00:31:42

it and you want to take that break, procrastinate on taking the break.

00:31:44

Develop that bias towards action so that it's so strong that it compels you to just do it

00:31:49

anyways.

00:31:51

And then if you procrastinate on taking the break and say, "Well, I'll do this first

00:31:54

and then I'll take the break if I want to.

00:31:55

I'll take the break tomorrow.

00:31:56

You know, tomorrow you're not going to feel like it.

00:31:58

Tomorrow you're going to want to show up and do the thing because that's consistent with

00:32:02

your character and who you are."

00:32:04

I mean, this reminds me a lot of habits.

00:32:08

I think it's FML Alexander that the quote that people don't decide their future is they

00:32:12

decide their habits.

00:32:13

Their habits determine their future is there's some version of that.

00:32:17

You don't rise to the level of your goals.

00:32:19

You fall to the level of your systems.

00:32:21

I mean, I don't think he's wrong.

00:32:25

I just am struggling with like, "How do I apply this?"

00:32:28

Because as we'll talk about in the next couple of sections, like some of the specifics here,

00:32:31

you know, "I'm not a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu guy."

00:32:35

No, I'm not either.

00:32:37

But I don't know, I do think there is a lot in this thoughts part which if you were to

00:32:46

read just one section of this book, this would be the one to focus on because there's things

00:32:51

that you will, especially if you're familiar with a lot of the stuff that we read for Bookworm,

00:32:55

this is going to say some of those concepts in different ways and it's going to cause

00:32:58

you to kind of get a more complete picture of some things.

00:33:02

I feel like the focus section is another one that I really like.

00:33:05

This is focus comes easy in combat because the battle's right in front of you.

00:33:09

I agree with that.

00:33:11

That makes so much sense.

00:33:13

If a fight is brought to you, like you're going to confront it, you're going to do the

00:33:16

right thing in that specific situation.

00:33:20

So as it pertains to the things that you say you want to do, then maybe you do need to

00:33:25

have his attitude of the war path and every day, like you show up to ready to fight, you

00:33:31

know, but not, I don't know.

00:33:34

Like that's the part that kind of made this hard to digest for me is like, I don't view

00:33:40

showing up and doing my morning routine as fighting the enemy.

00:33:44

Yeah.

00:33:45

But maybe that's just because I've done it long enough that it's easier for me to do

00:33:50

that.

00:33:51

You know, I'm working on an update to the best habit tracking app pick for the sweet setup.

00:33:56

I think I shared on Twitter a screenshot.

00:33:58

I've got a whole page full of habit trackers.

00:34:00

Oh, that's easy bullet journal.

00:34:02

That didn't work for me.

00:34:06

I'm back on, back on streaks, which I never turned off the automations that I have there

00:34:10

for like Bible reading and prayer, because I use apps for those things.

00:34:13

And so when I went back into streaks to test things, my streak is at like 467 days in a

00:34:19

row.

00:34:20

Nice.

00:34:21

So nice.

00:34:22

I've developed some of this stuff and I have some momentum already.

00:34:25

I'm trying to disconnect from that though and put myself back in the shoes as somebody

00:34:29

who's come into this for the first time, like how would they respond to Joel Sargent,

00:34:34

Jaco, Yellen Adam, Screaming Adam?

00:34:36

I don't know.

00:34:38

But that doesn't mean I think that he's off base with any of this stuff in this first

00:34:42

section anyways.

00:34:44

The comment he makes about when you're in battle, the task is right in front of you,

00:34:48

so it's easy to focus.

00:34:51

There's, there's a, I've been realizing this lately.

00:34:54

So I grew up on a farm.

00:34:57

And it occurred to me like when I worked on the farm, I never had an issue deciding what

00:35:03

to do and what came next.

00:35:06

It was very plain.

00:35:08

And I think that's partially because the length of time it takes to do each task, harvest a

00:35:13

field that could take anywhere from three hours to three days to do that one task.

00:35:21

Now of course you've got some maintenance and, you know, starting up operating, unloading.

00:35:26

You've got all those little tiny things, but it's a whole process that just repeats.

00:35:31

So harvest that field is a very long task.

00:35:37

Send that email is a very short task and you could have a hundred of those in one day.

00:35:42

But I'm like, when you're on a farm, like you may have one task and you're going to

00:35:45

do that one task all day long.

00:35:48

But when we work on computers and the type of thing that we do, like you can do so many

00:35:52

things because they're so short.

00:35:55

And I wonder if that's partially what makes some of these things difficult to focus on.

00:36:01

But I don't think he dove into it deep enough on that part.

00:36:05

Like that aspect of it, of how do you translate focus from a battlefield to a corporate desk?

00:36:14

That translation doesn't happen.

00:36:15

You have to try to make those connections in your brain on your own.

00:36:19

So I wish he would have made that connection.

00:36:21

That's why I was saying earlier.

00:36:23

This talks a lot about physical actions.

00:36:26

Like when you're on a battlefield, it's all physical.

00:36:28

Yes, you're making some decisions, but those are small pieces of what's going on.

00:36:34

A lot of what's going on is physical.

00:36:38

So I really wanted that translation.

00:36:39

It just wasn't there.

00:36:41

You're right.

00:36:42

It's not there.

00:36:43

I think I'm a little bit different though.

00:36:45

Like I don't want Jaco telling me how to apply battle principles to the knowledge you were.

00:36:51

That's very fair.

00:36:53

I'll listen to Seth Godin for that sort of stuff.

00:36:57

Yes.

00:36:58

Here's how you handle this corporate meeting.

00:36:59

Make sure you bring your Jiu Jitsu black belt and make sure you get your handgun ready

00:37:03

and be set.

00:37:05

That's how this is going to go.

00:37:07

I remember when we read Extreme Ownership, because that book there is the story from

00:37:13

Combat and then the Leadership Principle, which Leadership again is a big thing here.

00:37:19

There's actually a chapter here in this first section called Leadership Vacuum.

00:37:24

And basically it talks about how or what happens when no one rises up to lead.

00:37:31

That's a leadership vacuum and he says that can happen in your own head as well when you

00:37:34

don't make a decision.

00:37:35

So this is kind of like personal leadership here.

00:37:40

Right.

00:37:41

But and then the last part of the chapters in Extreme Ownership is the application to

00:37:45

business.

00:37:46

I remember reading some of those business stories and I was like, this doesn't seem as strong

00:37:52

as the other parts of the book.

00:37:55

And I get why they did it.

00:37:57

That's what the business they were trying to build once they they came back and were

00:38:02

no longer in the Navy Seals.

00:38:06

So I think that that does work for a lot of people, but there isn't a direct translation

00:38:12

between those.

00:38:13

So like they probably work very successfully with some types of business people, but not

00:38:19

all types of business people, if that makes sense.

00:38:23

So you get a less, less complete application of it and a different, as soon as you change

00:38:31

the arena.

00:38:33

So I'm personally okay with him sticking to like the physical exercise, personal leadership

00:38:40

side of this, not speaking to the desk jockeys or the knowledge workers.

00:38:47

But I can see how to original point, if you are in one of those categories, you do read

00:38:54

just this book in isolation and you're like, well, what do I do with this?

00:38:59

And to be honest, I don't really know exactly what I'm going to do with this.

00:39:03

I've got a couple of action items, which we'll get to, but I don't think they are knowledge

00:39:08

work related.

00:39:10

Yeah.

00:39:11

So that's true.

00:39:13

Because I think you're absolutely right.

00:39:14

There are some things that I would want.

00:39:18

Jocko's advice on, I'd take his advice on diet and exercise any day of the week, but showing

00:39:26

me how to manage my code projects.

00:39:29

Yeah.

00:39:30

Maybe.

00:39:31

I mean, he needs to do some talking, like a lot of talking to get me to the point where

00:39:36

I feel like I would trust his opinion on how that works.

00:39:40

And maybe that's because I don't want to listen to him on this.

00:39:46

That's the other side of that coin is maybe I'm saying we don't, or both of us maybe,

00:39:52

we don't want to listen to him in that knowledge work arena because he's right and we don't

00:39:56

want to admit it.

00:39:57

Yeah.

00:39:58

No, that's true.

00:40:00

So on that topic, I think there's something in the middle.

00:40:04

So you mentioned the farm example and how like you can have a task where you're working

00:40:08

all day.

00:40:09

And then as soon as you get that task done, it is instantly clear what the next thing

00:40:15

is for you to do.

00:40:17

And it is not again, not a five minute task.

00:40:21

But for a lot of us, that's what we do is we break things down into the smallest possible

00:40:27

steps and then we have all this technology, which makes stuff super, super efficient.

00:40:34

But we don't show up and do the work anyway.

00:40:36

So, right.

00:40:38

We are the limiting factor, which again, I don't want him to tell me how to plan my

00:40:43

projects and use Omni focus, but he doesn't have to.

00:40:47

He's already told me like you got to have that bias towards action.

00:40:50

That's the next bullet.

00:40:51

I jotted down.

00:40:52

There's a couple different chapters here that deal with just begin, show up every day.

00:40:57

Make sure that you take action.

00:40:59

They're all basically saying that same thing.

00:41:02

You got to show up consistently.

00:41:03

You got to do it all the time.

00:41:05

And that is not hard to translate for a knowledge worker.

00:41:08

Those articles that you have to write or whatever you have to do, just stop dragging your feet

00:41:12

sit down on your keyboard and write the dumb thing.

00:41:15

And I don't know when I say that to myself.

00:41:19

I'm like, yeah, you already know what to do.

00:41:21

Just do it.

00:41:23

Which is his point, really?

00:41:25

Yep.

00:41:26

Even though he's not a knowledge worker, he doesn't need to know all those details.

00:41:30

He just needs to get my butt in the chair, my hands on the keys and get me moving, which

00:41:35

that party's really good at.

00:41:37

Which I think is the value of the book, honestly.

00:41:40

Yeah.

00:41:41

So this first chapter, this first section though, this theme comes up a bunch of different

00:41:46

times.

00:41:47

He says it a bunch of different ways.

00:41:49

I don't think he's wrong for doing that though.

00:41:53

Whatever it is that finally makes you take action, that's exactly what you need.

00:41:57

So in the begin chapter, he talks about don't reason with weakness.

00:42:01

Just get up and go.

00:42:02

And towards the end, he's got one action you.

00:42:05

He says, thoughts are not enough.

00:42:06

You must take action.

00:42:08

The one thing stopping you is you.

00:42:11

He's right.

00:42:12

Guilty.

00:42:13

What do you do with that though?

00:42:15

When someone's like, the only reason you're not getting that done is because you're not

00:42:18

doing it.

00:42:19

Okay.

00:42:20

Well, you're not wrong.

00:42:22

That's the hard part.

00:42:23

Yeah.

00:42:24

Because no one likes to hear that stuff, but the minute you become okay with the fact that

00:42:30

you are the one holding you back, you now have the power and the ability to change it

00:42:34

too.

00:42:35

As long as you view the fact that you're being held back by somebody else, external circumstances,

00:42:40

then you're just kind of stuck.

00:42:42

Yes.

00:42:43

Yeah.

00:42:44

The moment you have to take personal responsibility for it, you can act on it and change it.

00:42:49

Yep.

00:42:50

And notice there's in this thoughts section, I felt as though this section could easily

00:42:57

be titled mindset, but I don't think he wanted to use that term.

00:43:03

Yeah.

00:43:04

Because of the book mindset.

00:43:06

But a lot of that I had growth mindset in the back of my head.

00:43:10

Yep.

00:43:11

Very frequently as I was going through this.

00:43:13

Did you have that connection as you read it?

00:43:15

Totally.

00:43:16

He doesn't use the term growth mindset at all, but there's a couple of sections specifically

00:43:20

where he talks about questioning everything and constantly be learning.

00:43:24

And that's immediately what I thought of as growth mindset.

00:43:27

Sure.

00:43:28

Sure.

00:43:29

Yeah.

00:43:30

I mean, it's a very prevalent theme, just not called out.

00:43:34

I don't know that it needs to be though.

00:43:36

And that, I don't think it needs to be, but that is a good distinction that a lot of this

00:43:42

is really just trying to shift your perspective.

00:43:46

And some of that stuff is really good.

00:43:49

One of the, one of my favorite chapters from this whole book is the section actually titled

00:43:54

good.

00:43:55

Do you remember this one?

00:43:56

Titled good.

00:43:57

No, not off the top of my head.

00:43:59

It's basically his response whenever anything goes wrong.

00:44:05

And so people will come to him and they'll say, you know, this happened, that happened,

00:44:11

the other thing and the projected response for a leader in that position is like, well,

00:44:18

if I go tell my leader this bad news, then they're going to get upset.

00:44:22

Like, why don't you fix it?

00:44:23

Whatever his response was always one word.

00:44:25

It's good.

00:44:27

And the takeaway from that is that now you know what doesn't work.

00:44:32

So now you can try something else.

00:44:34

And he's got a big, long list of examples where like this thing happened.

00:44:40

Good.

00:44:41

Now you have the ability to try something else.

00:44:43

You didn't get the promotion.

00:44:45

Good.

00:44:46

You have the ability to develop your skills further until you do.

00:44:49

And I, I like that whole section.

00:44:53

And I, that was one of the things that really stood out to me.

00:44:56

And I feel like that section alone, that is probably enough of a reason to read the entire

00:45:03

book.

00:45:04

Sure.

00:45:06

But it's, it's really, really, it's, it's really, really good.

00:45:11

And it really jives with the personal responsibility stuff we were just talking about.

00:45:14

In another form of this is like the darkness.

00:45:17

Because this talks about how storms are going to rise.

00:45:20

Don't let them consume you as long as you keep fighting, then you win.

00:45:24

The only real defeat is if you surrender, if you give into your circumstances.

00:45:30

And again, like he's talking about this from a physical exercise point.

00:45:33

So he's, you're giving in if you don't get up at 430 and do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in his

00:45:37

mind.

00:45:38

But for me, you know, if I'm not getting up at 6 AM and writing, that's my version of

00:45:43

that.

00:45:44

Sure.

00:45:45

I think, you know, this whole good thing is interesting.

00:45:50

Because essentially what he's saying is that when you have bad things happen or you perceived

00:45:55

bad things, when you have perceived bad things happen or things that happen that you don't

00:46:00

want, that is good because now you know your mission.

00:46:06

It's like defining what your next project or task is.

00:46:11

That's at least that was my takeaway with it.

00:46:13

That seems to be what he's getting at there.

00:46:15

So yes, it didn't recall this section when you brought it up.

00:46:19

But I did once you started talking about it.

00:46:21

Sure.

00:46:22

But that's my perspective.

00:46:23

I think whenever you see something like that, our tendency is to either go down the path

00:46:29

of woe is me and wallow when you could turn it on his head.

00:46:35

You know, that's similar to shoot.

00:46:37

I'm drawing a blank on it.

00:46:39

The Ryan Holiday book we did early on.

00:46:41

Obstacles the way.

00:46:42

Obstacles the way.

00:46:43

There you go.

00:46:44

That's kind of the mindset.

00:46:46

Yeah.

00:46:47

There's when you see that you have something to overcome, you now have your mission.

00:46:51

True.

00:46:52

Yeah.

00:46:53

So the thought that is coupled with that is the fact that your perspective determines

00:47:02

whether you act and what you say determines your perspective.

00:47:07

So the other thing I had jotted down for this section is I feel fine, which this is the

00:47:13

story behind this.

00:47:14

Not every chapter has this, but this one did.

00:47:17

When you were in training and someone, something happened and they asked you, how do you feel?

00:47:25

The only correct response was I feel fine.

00:47:31

And there are a couple of reasons for that.

00:47:34

Number one, that even if you had gotten knocked unconscious, you're going to say that and

00:47:41

then you're going to believe it and it's going to affect how you act and how you think and

00:47:46

how you see, but also the enunciation for I feel fine having to say all those F sounds

00:47:52

in a row, that was a little bit tricky to do if you didn't have control of all of your

00:47:57

faculties.

00:47:58

So just the fact that you're saying that phrase shows that you are in control of yourself.

00:48:04

And then you say this and even if you don't feel fine, the moment that you say it, you

00:48:08

start to believe it and it causes you to keep going, which he didn't get into the specifics

00:48:14

of this, but I've read enough other books about Navy Seal training and all the stuff

00:48:19

that they go through to know that there are a lot of times when you don't feel fine.

00:48:25

Correct.

00:48:26

Just internalize it and it never comes out.

00:48:30

Yes.

00:48:31

And that was interesting to me that the only thing that came out of your mouth, the only

00:48:35

thing allowed to come out of your mouth, essentially, is I feel fine.

00:48:39

And it's kind of like a positive confession.

00:48:41

And I do believe there's a lot of value in a positive confession.

00:48:45

I don't like to say negative things specifically over my family.

00:48:55

I think this is a really powerful concept that he's not talking about here, but it's

00:48:58

kind of related to this is if you're going to continue to call your kids little monsters

00:49:05

or little monkeys or whatever, like that's what they're going to act like.

00:49:10

But if you say positive things over them, then they will internalize and they will believe

00:49:17

that.

00:49:19

And essentially you are painting a picture of what their future looks like, even though

00:49:23

you don't realize it sometimes.

00:49:25

So very important not to respond emotionally when you are in the parenting context there,

00:49:31

but absolutely applies in the personal context as well.

00:49:35

What are you saying about yourself?

00:49:36

Do you believe that you aren't good enough?

00:49:40

You aren't smart enough, you're not creative enough?

00:49:43

Well, fine.

00:49:44

You're not.

00:49:45

Great.

00:49:46

So.

00:49:47

Right.

00:49:48

Yeah, this is one of those which comes first.

00:49:50

Do you feel fine and then therefore you say I feel fine or do you say I feel fine and

00:49:56

thus you feel fine?

00:49:57

I can tell you which one I believe will lead to a higher quality of life.

00:50:02

Yes, absolutely.

00:50:03

So I think I'm not one that's going to, I don't think either of us are one that promotes

00:50:08

the whole positive thinking almost cult.

00:50:13

That's, you know, if I believe it, it will happen.

00:50:15

Like that's a whole nother.

00:50:17

That's another level of what we're talking about here.

00:50:20

So I think that this is more of a very small minor emotion stance, I think is what we're

00:50:28

getting at, which I definitely do hold to because if I'm telling myself that I'm feeling

00:50:35

terrible today, guess what?

00:50:36

I feel terrible today.

00:50:37

Yeah.

00:50:38

If I wake up and I'm thinking about how productive I'm going to be today, I'm usually significantly

00:50:45

more productive that day.

00:50:47

On a minute level, that does seem to be a thing that happens.

00:50:52

And I think this is playing into that.

00:50:53

When you tell someone, I feel fine after something major just happened, you're setting yourself

00:51:01

up to actually feel fine.

00:51:04

I think there is a cycle here.

00:51:06

And so it's hard to say one causes the other, but I do think they impact each other.

00:51:13

And you got to pick some point to interject some intentionality inside this cycle.

00:51:19

You know, the thoughts that you think, they're going to determine the words that you say,

00:51:28

and that's going to determine the things that you do.

00:51:33

And I do believe that that is like a flywheel, which left unchecked, just living by default,

00:51:40

is going to be pretty negative.

00:51:43

I also really believe that words have power.

00:51:48

And so words are a great place.

00:51:50

I argue for you to stick your hand in that fan and get it to stop and then say, no, we're

00:51:55

going to go the other way now.

00:51:57

Sure.

00:51:58

I do think that the words that your perspective shift makes it easier to act right.

00:52:08

Now, a lot of what he's saying could also be interpreted the other way, like, doesn't

00:52:13

matter what you feel like you just show up and do the thing and that's going to impact

00:52:17

your thoughts and your actions.

00:52:20

And I think that's true too.

00:52:21

But if I had to pick one as a place to start, it would be get a handle on your thoughts

00:52:26

and get a handle on your words.

00:52:28

Very valid.

00:52:29

All right.

00:52:30

There's lots of other stuff in here, but I think that's good enough for part one.

00:52:33

Let's go to part two, which is significantly shorter.

00:52:36

This is actions and there are lots of different chapters in here, pretty much all related

00:52:46

to physical stuff.

00:52:49

There's a couple here related to things that we've talked about before.

00:52:54

And so I wanted to touch on these.

00:52:56

The first one is stress.

00:52:57

He talks about good and bad stress.

00:53:00

He talks about what happens when you feel stressed.

00:53:03

Cortisol levels go high.

00:53:05

Your immune system can become repressed if it's there for a long time.

00:53:10

You got to be careful not to stress your body and mind too much because of that, but also

00:53:15

you need stress in order to get better in order to grow.

00:53:19

I think this is absolutely true.

00:53:22

I am curious though, because this is a short little chapter.

00:53:25

Do you have any insights?

00:53:26

The distinctions there between good and bad stress?

00:53:30

Not specifically.

00:53:33

People think of good and bad stress pretty commonly.

00:53:37

I don't know that he has anything groundbreaking here, at least not to me.

00:53:42

That I read.

00:53:43

I mean, there are definitely things in life I've dealt with in the last 18, 24 months

00:53:49

that I would term as both good and bad stress, but even the bad stressors I've learned a

00:53:57

lot from.

00:53:59

If I look at the results of said stress after having gone through them, I think you could

00:54:04

potentially redefine some previously known bad stressors as good stressors.

00:54:12

But that's learning from failures most likely in the vast majority of scenarios.

00:54:16

When I read this section, I instantly thought of the conversation we had about hustle.

00:54:23

Oh, sure.

00:54:24

Because I think hustle is a version of good stress that can very easily become bad stressor,

00:54:32

overly done stress.

00:54:34

Now you're on the verge of burnout.

00:54:36

Again, he's not giving you jocko.

00:54:39

It isn't any specific distinctions here between these two.

00:54:43

But just the realization that not all stress is bad.

00:54:46

I think is a big takeaway here.

00:54:50

The fact that you are feeling stressed doesn't mean that you should be looking for a way

00:54:55

out of your current situation.

00:54:59

Now lots of nuance there, which we're not qualified to talk about.

00:55:05

No, not even close.

00:55:07

But I think that you can kind of figure this out for yourself.

00:55:11

If you do need some professional help, then absolutely go and get it.

00:55:17

But I think the general takeaway for most people is to at least recognize that not all

00:55:24

stress is bad and start to ask yourself these questions about like, well, where do I draw

00:55:30

this line?

00:55:31

What is the difference between this is something that is going to prod me to become a better

00:55:38

version of myself than I would have in my default lazy state.

00:55:44

And now it's getting unhealthy and it's chronic and it's affecting a bunch of other things

00:55:51

negatively.

00:55:53

Maybe that's the thing is I'm talking through this that you got to be looking at is what

00:55:56

sort of effect that stress is producing in other things.

00:56:00

It can be hard because it can be cumulative.

00:56:04

But what is the cause and what is the effect of the processes and the systems that you

00:56:09

have in your own life?

00:56:11

One of the things I would add to that though is if you do have bad stressors, yes, you can

00:56:17

go down the path of trying to remove them.

00:56:21

That's a definite thing you could do.

00:56:23

At the same time, you can sometimes make the choice to not remove them intentionally.

00:56:28

Do you hear what I'm saying?

00:56:30

Like if I try to remove bad ones, yes, I can get the bad one out of my life.

00:56:37

But at the same time, if I keep a bad stressor, I'm very likely to learn some pretty valuable

00:56:42

things from it.

00:56:44

I've had a number of things that I would love to remove, some of which I can, some of which

00:56:51

I can't, that I would consider bad stressors in the realm of life.

00:56:58

And I've specifically chosen not to remove them in the last probably 18 months again.

00:57:06

So I can't say that those are all things you should be trying to extract.

00:57:14

Sometimes you need to lean into them, even though you don't like them.

00:57:17

Exactly, which gets us back to his core message.

00:57:21

Yes, yes.

00:57:23

Yeah, I don't really know what else to say to anybody who's still struggling with where

00:57:29

that line is.

00:57:30

You kind of have to find it for yourself.

00:57:34

But I think the big thing for me as I read this is just to consider kind of what are

00:57:41

the inputs that are producing the stress and then what are the outputs?

00:57:46

What's the fruit from that?

00:57:49

I think it's fairly easy to see where, like if you were working one on one with Chaco,

00:57:57

he's going to get in your face, he's going to make you get up at 430, he's going to

00:58:01

drag you to the gym, force you to do the workouts.

00:58:04

And you could look at that and none of that is going to be comfortable, none of that is

00:58:08

going to be pleasant.

00:58:10

But you do it for a couple of weeks and you're going to start to see some results from it,

00:58:15

right?

00:58:16

At that point, it's a lot easier to continue to show up every day because you're like,

00:58:20

"Oh, yeah, I guess this is working."

00:58:23

Sometimes there's not an instant anyways response or connection from the input to the output.

00:58:31

Sometimes it's a little bit delayed, which is why so many people have trouble with stuff

00:58:36

like habits and New Year's resolutions and stuff like that.

00:58:40

But I think if you have that perspective and you're constantly looking for those connections,

00:58:44

you'll be able to find them for sure, which kind of leads us to the next one, which is

00:58:49

the whole idea of sleeping, getting up early.

00:58:51

I'm not getting up at 430.

00:58:53

What about you?

00:58:56

I used to be a 5am guy for a long time.

00:59:00

Yeah.

00:59:01

Yup.

00:59:02

Years.

00:59:03

I was a 5am person.

00:59:04

There's even a blog post on my site about why get up at 5am.

00:59:11

I forget what it's titled, but it involves 5am and getting up early.

00:59:15

Why get up early?

00:59:16

Something like that.

00:59:18

I talk about being a 5am person.

00:59:22

When I did that, I will say this.

00:59:24

I accomplished a lot during that time and valued it very highly, not realizing that the

00:59:32

migraine issue I was dealing with at the time was very directly connected to that.

00:59:37

Okay.

00:59:39

I was getting migraines once or twice a month at the time.

00:59:45

When I stopped trying to get up at 5am and I cut sugar and stuff out of my diet, migraines

00:59:52

almost completely disappeared.

00:59:54

I've had very few in the last two years since I've made that shift.

01:00:01

Reading this, I know I can get up at 5am.

01:00:05

I know I can do that and I know I can do it regularly.

01:00:09

But I know I'm going to pay for it.

01:00:11

Well, I'm curious because you mentioned two things that you did at the same time which

01:00:16

eliminated the migraines.

01:00:18

So because he talks about the sugar stuff too, he mentions what is he?

01:00:23

He's got a chapter called sugar-coated lies or something like that.

01:00:27

He's very, very anti-sugar.

01:00:29

He views food simply as fuel for doing what you need to do.

01:00:33

Do you think if you decoupled those that you would still have the migraines?

01:00:36

I think that if I were to, like what I've learned through some of the habit tracking

01:00:43

and things I track in my notebook, I've learned that if I have bad sleep, that is a much bigger

01:00:49

trigger for my migraines than sugar.

01:00:51

Okay.

01:00:52

It's not granted.

01:00:53

If I've had a lot of sugar and then I sleep poorly, almost guaranteed I'm going to have

01:00:56

a migraine the next day.

01:00:58

So that does happen.

01:01:00

But I think that for me, I can introduce the sugar slightly and it's okay.

01:01:06

But if I have two or three nights of bad sleep and then try to eat a piece of pie, that next

01:01:14

day is going to be a fun one.

01:01:16

Sure.

01:01:17

Well, you just answered my question because you've made a stronger connection to the lack

01:01:20

of sleep than you have to the sugar.

01:01:22

Correct.

01:01:23

Yeah.

01:01:24

But when I first removed, when I was first able to get away from the migraines, I had

01:01:28

removed both at the same time.

01:01:30

Sure.

01:01:31

Gotcha.

01:01:32

And that's the step I would advise anybody who is thinking about making these changes

01:01:35

to do is to do one thing ahead of time and figure out what are the things that are triggering

01:01:43

the pain in your own life.

01:01:45

Yep.

01:01:46

And it's so true.

01:01:48

Having read this though, are you going to get up early?

01:01:52

Earlier.

01:01:53

Let me share a little bit of context here.

01:01:57

I have trouble with this section and I had a couple of these together, the getting up

01:02:02

early and the sleep because he talks about how well the way to get up early is simple.

01:02:05

Just go to bed earlier.

01:02:06

Yes.

01:02:07

And then he even talks about how much sleep you really need.

01:02:10

And that part I disagree with.

01:02:12

And I am in a unique situation here because I have been diagnosed with epilepsy.

01:02:20

One of the things that can trigger a seizure is a lack of sleep.

01:02:23

I have not had a seizure in 20 years now.

01:02:29

I'm going to keep it that way.

01:02:31

Sure.

01:02:33

And the way that I do that is I make sure that I get at least eight hours of sleep per night.

01:02:38

I don't always get eight hours of sleep, but I do everything I can to set myself up for

01:02:42

success.

01:02:43

And if I don't get enough sleep, then I am going to take a nap the next day or I'm going

01:02:48

to go to bed early and I'm going to get more sleep because I'm not going to accumulate

01:02:52

any of that sleep that his whole tone is like you need seven hours tops and just push through

01:02:58

it.

01:02:59

The sleepiness will leave.

01:03:00

And I'm like, no, the sleepiness will not leave because there's something else that may

01:03:03

happen.

01:03:05

So I am not going to take his advice on how much sleep I need.

01:03:10

And that kind of changes all of the specifics about when to go to bed and when to get up.

01:03:16

That being said, like awful otter is mentioning in the chat.

01:03:21

There is something to be said about having time to do things before other people are

01:03:27

up.

01:03:29

And with all of the stuff that we've gone through over the last year, my bedtime and

01:03:35

my wake up time has slowly been creeping the creeping later.

01:03:42

Part of that is five kids at home.

01:03:45

Yes.

01:03:46

And finally get everybody in bed and you're just like, okay, now we can finally have some

01:03:51

time to ourselves and you don't want that to end.

01:03:54

Yes.

01:03:56

Next thing you know, it's 10 p.m., 10 30, sometimes 11.

01:03:59

Exactly.

01:04:00

Oh, but I can get so much stuff done.

01:04:01

The kids are all down.

01:04:02

Yep.

01:04:03

And then they're up before you doing stuff for you in the morning.

01:04:06

Now that being said, the beginning of this year, I fasted a little bit.

01:04:12

I gave up coffee, which no caffeine, obviously easier to go to bed earlier, found myself

01:04:19

getting up earlier as a result.

01:04:21

So I feel like I've kind of been working on a reset regarding my bedtime, wake up time

01:04:28

anyways.

01:04:29

And I do want to start getting up a little bit earlier.

01:04:32

I'm thinking probably the optimal time for me is 6 a.m.

01:04:36

Maybe if I can swing it 5 30, but I can't go to bed before the kids go to bed.

01:04:44

So that's kind of like my hard boundary on the end of my day.

01:04:50

Right.

01:04:51

And we have actually since everything got shut down, we did recalibrate even like the

01:04:56

kids bedtimes and they do go to bed earlier than they used to.

01:05:00

So kind of the whole family is working in this direction.

01:05:03

But even so, I don't know, I've got a teenager now.

01:05:08

I can't tell him to go to bed before 9 o'clock.

01:05:12

Right.

01:05:13

It's just, you know, I got to give him a little bit of freedom there too.

01:05:18

So I don't know exactly what I'm going to commit to.

01:05:21

I don't know exactly where this is going to land, but this is one of my action items,

01:05:24

is to start getting up earlier.

01:05:27

Sure.

01:05:28

I have kind of rethought the morning routine and how I enter my workday.

01:05:34

And actually for the last week or two now, I have been getting up a little bit earlier,

01:05:39

going through the morning routine and then just like clicking right in because I know

01:05:42

exactly what I'm going to be working on in the morning.

01:05:45

Getting an hour, sometimes two hours worth of work done and then going back upstairs

01:05:50

and seeing that everybody is awake.

01:05:52

Yeah.

01:05:53

That is pretty great.

01:05:54

I've debated setting an alarm.

01:05:57

I don't think I would set an alarm.

01:05:58

I would be more focused on getting to bed on time because I don't use an alarm.

01:06:02

I'm one of those, you know, people who are able to do that.

01:06:05

I know not everyone can.

01:06:06

I think you're the same for the most part, but I have debated trying to make sure I'm

01:06:12

out of bed at 6 15 or so right now, like because, you know, I'm not getting to sleep

01:06:20

till 10 or a little later.

01:06:22

I've been sleeping till 6 30 pretty regularly.

01:06:26

My kids get up at 7.

01:06:28

So by the time I get up, get through a shower and get myself dressed there up.

01:06:33

Yeah.

01:06:34

And that gets tough.

01:06:36

Like there really isn't much of a morning routine outside of breakfast.

01:06:40

Right.

01:06:42

And then it's off to work.

01:06:43

So there's not much there.

01:06:45

There is time to, you know, make sure I've got my bullet journal ready, but I do that

01:06:50

with my kids at the breakfast table.

01:06:54

So like there's some of that that happens, but I've been debating trying to get up a little

01:06:59

earlier, but I don't think I would be setting an alarm.

01:07:01

I would be setting a bedtime, like getting to bed sooner if I can.

01:07:06

Sure.

01:07:07

That's tricky.

01:07:08

That's tough.

01:07:09

I have been using the, there's a haptic wake now for the alarm on Apple Watch.

01:07:15

Oh, yeah, I have that.

01:07:16

Which I think is kind of a happy medium between the wake up window and an audible alarm.

01:07:27

Yeah.

01:07:28

Because I'm not going to feel it right away when I'm really in a deep state of sleep,

01:07:34

but also it's not going to wake everybody else up.

01:07:39

You know, it seems to be working and I think I'm probably going to continue to use that.

01:07:46

Sure.

01:07:47

I'm also going to try, I think, to get a workout in the morning.

01:07:51

So one, the other thing, you know, he's talking about in this section, he talks about the

01:07:55

home gym and the workouts and stuff like this.

01:07:57

So he mentions doing a workout right at the beginning.

01:08:02

He mentions doing multiple workouts throughout the day, which at first when I read that, I'm

01:08:06

like, "Who's got time for that?"

01:08:07

And then I'm like, "Right.

01:08:08

Right.

01:08:09

Maybe I could make that work."

01:08:10

Nice.

01:08:11

Nice.

01:08:12

Because you can't see in the video, but right behind me here is a weight bench and I've

01:08:18

got adjustable dumbbells literally in my office because there's nowhere else for them to go.

01:08:24

And one of the big things that came out of the last year, I made a point to get outside

01:08:36

every day and that meant that I was running or biking every single day and a lot of days

01:08:46

actually doing both.

01:08:49

I loved the experience of that and I want to keep that going.

01:08:56

Obviously it's not great outside right now.

01:08:59

So I still run outside a couple of times a week.

01:09:02

I'm not biking outside in the snow.

01:09:03

I don't have one of those fat tire bikes.

01:09:05

Ah, nice.

01:09:06

But I did look at my fitness totals for the year.

01:09:14

And in 2020, I had 558 miles from running workouts.

01:09:22

Cycling I had 1,230.

01:09:25

Compare that to 2019.

01:09:27

I had 500 running miles for workouts and that was when I was training for a half marathon.

01:09:33

I didn't actually get to do a half marathon last year.

01:09:37

And cycling I had 216.

01:09:40

So I shattered this and I've established this habit essentially already.

01:09:46

And so if the stuff is in my house, why wouldn't I be able to keep this going?

01:09:52

Sure.

01:09:53

Which then he gets into like the home gym and the stuff that you need.

01:09:57

I have a lot of this stuff already.

01:10:01

One thing I think I will be looking at is getting an exercise bike or a rowing machine.

01:10:07

He has stuff in the recommended order of what you should get.

01:10:11

Starting with just a pull-up bar.

01:10:14

So I have most of the beginning stuff already.

01:10:16

Just like the free weights and the bench and all that stuff.

01:10:19

But the rowing machine or something that I could do that's not running outside.

01:10:24

I don't have a treadmill.

01:10:26

Something I could do inside in the winter that's kind of like a whole body.

01:10:29

And I don't have any research.

01:10:35

But I guess my action item is to look into this stuff.

01:10:37

I don't know if I'm going to actually end up getting one of these machines or not.

01:10:40

I have no idea how much they cost.

01:10:43

But he's got me motivated to try it anyways.

01:10:46

Sure.

01:10:47

When I went through this section on home gym stuff like the thing that stuck out in my

01:10:50

mind is the, if you're familiar with Nerd Fitness, nerdfitness.com.

01:10:55

Do you know this?

01:10:56

I've heard of it.

01:10:57

I should definitely check them out if you don't.

01:10:58

So nerdfitness.com has a like a body weight home workout system that you can do.

01:11:07

I have a barbell downstairs and some free weights and such.

01:11:11

So like I have some of that here.

01:11:14

I've done that beginner workout a number of times.

01:11:19

The problem is the best time for me to do that is in the morning.

01:11:22

And like I was talking about earlier, I'm usually waking up too late to do any of that.

01:11:27

So that's part of why I would like to get up a little earlier so that I have time for

01:11:31

that.

01:11:32

But I mean, I don't see the need for like a rowing machine or something like that.

01:11:36

That's not something that I would use or a friend of the show.

01:11:40

Josh has a really nice one, but to each their own.

01:11:45

So there's a lot of things that you could do in this camp, but I find that just doing

01:11:51

a free weight or a mostly body weight workout does fine for me.

01:11:58

But I'm not huge into fitness and trying to do it to build a body image and stuff like

01:12:06

that is not my intention at all.

01:12:07

It's just mostly to keep me moving.

01:12:09

So I don't know.

01:12:11

I'll try to do that more often.

01:12:13

Maybe that's an action item.

01:12:14

I don't have anything actually written down here.

01:12:16

I probably should be writing these.

01:12:17

But you know, if I'm going to do something like that's probably it.

01:12:20

I'm going to be trying to make sure I'm getting up early enough to do a workout and try to

01:12:24

do that daily as an attempt to help my overall health for sure.

01:12:31

You better have an action item after reading a Jack O'Willink book.

01:12:33

I know, right?

01:12:34

I definitely need to be writing these down for sure.

01:12:36

Yeah.

01:12:37

So maybe we should talk about some of the thoughts around specifically our exercise routines.

01:12:43

You kind of shared yours.

01:12:44

You're going to use the nerd fitness style stuff.

01:12:47

I've got some, I mentioned the freeways here in my office with the bench.

01:12:54

And because I tend to time block specifically for exercise, that means that that stuff actually

01:13:03

has kind of gotten neglected a little bit.

01:13:05

I still do it just not as consistently as I was before.

01:13:09

I've kind of gone the other way and done a lot more cardio, the exercise or the running

01:13:15

and the biking.

01:13:17

And so what I'm thinking is that stuff, usually I time block later in the day.

01:13:22

My favorite time to go for a run is about 10, 30, 11 a.m. because I've put in some solid

01:13:29

usually writing time before then.

01:13:32

And I can push myself physically, come back and have lunch at that point, after I run.

01:13:40

Usually it's like four or five miles.

01:13:42

And I think that I could definitely add some of the strength training stuff that I have

01:13:48

not done as consistently at the beginning of my day if I started getting up a little bit

01:13:55

earlier.

01:13:56

And that would probably help get me moving and provide some focus benefits when I sit

01:14:00

down to actually write.

01:14:02

So I think I'm going to try to incorporate some of that stuff into my morning routine.

01:14:08

Makes sense.

01:14:10

And Otter's got me looking at these Concept 2 Roars now.

01:14:17

Don't do it.

01:14:19

But I do think that this is worth considering because he does make the point that the best,

01:14:25

like where should you start when it comes to exercise?

01:14:28

He's like, just do anything.

01:14:30

So he's got a bunch of stuff that he recommends and like the martial arts and the order that

01:14:34

you should do them, but I kind of feel like that's sort of optional.

01:14:40

Am I wrong in thinking that?

01:14:42

I think he wants you to just do something.

01:14:45

Yeah.

01:14:46

He wants you to...

01:14:48

See this is the section where he wants you to do exercise.

01:14:54

He wants you to build martial arts into this in some form and recommends Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

01:15:01

as a beginning point and then working your way towards Muay Thai.

01:15:05

So there's...

01:15:06

I don't know why I know this stuff.

01:15:09

Like how to pronounce it and stuff.

01:15:10

So anyway, I think there's a lot of potential in what he's saying and I'm not telling him

01:15:18

he's wrong.

01:15:20

But again, like the lifestyle that we were talking about earlier, that concept of if

01:15:24

you want to look and live the way that US Navy SEALs look and live when they come back

01:15:32

to civilian life, if you want to be like that, you need to do this, I would say.

01:15:38

It would be very hard for me to find someone who doesn't need to do that.

01:15:42

If that's what you want.

01:15:43

I don't have an interest in building my body and developing those skills.

01:15:49

So that's not something I'm going to pursue.

01:15:53

If you told me that you wanted to find a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu class or group locally, I would applaud

01:16:03

you, Mike.

01:16:04

But no, I'm not taking the time.

01:16:08

That's a lot of time to devote, I feel, to something that I don't think I'm going to

01:16:14

gain much value out of personally.

01:16:16

Now I could be completely wrong because there's something about it I don't see, but that's

01:16:20

not something I'm going to pursue.

01:16:22

I'm not committing to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, though I see a path forward for that because

01:16:28

one of my sons is interested in it already.

01:16:30

So...

01:16:31

Oh, fine.

01:16:32

We'll see.

01:16:33

Let's go to the next section, which is Fuel Feeding the Machine.

01:16:36

I'm not sure I have a whole lot to say here.

01:16:40

This can be easily summarized, I think.

01:16:42

He talks about how your body is constantly trying to maintain balance.

01:16:47

One of the ways that it does that is by creating glucose or blood sugar when you eat a lot

01:16:58

of carbohydrates, so his basic advice is cut out that stuff and then your body will start

01:17:03

burning fat for energy instead of storing it.

01:17:07

I can't argue with that.

01:17:10

However, his Paleo caveman diet does not necessarily appeal to me.

01:17:15

I will say if I had read this prior to doing brainwash, I probably would have tried at

01:17:22

least some of this, but I'm pretty happy with how I've dialed things in.

01:17:28

I have a salad every day now, which is a big deal for me.

01:17:32

Wow.

01:17:33

I'm impressed.

01:17:34

Yeah.

01:17:35

So I'm happy with the changes that I made and I don't feel like I need to disrupt this

01:17:39

at the moment.

01:17:40

I think having read brainwash, this diet as far as the technicals go is almost identical

01:17:50

to what the pearl mutters recommend in brainwash.

01:17:56

The kicker here is that Jaco distills it much further and makes it easier to understand.

01:18:01

Yeah, he's got a list of, "This is what you can't eat.

01:18:03

This is what you can't eat."

01:18:05

Correct.

01:18:06

They're broad categories and such, namely, don't eat anything processed and stay away

01:18:12

from greens.

01:18:13

That's really his perspective on it.

01:18:16

And potatoes.

01:18:17

Yep.

01:18:18

But the thing, the only one with my diet, the only thing that's really different from

01:18:23

what he recommends is I do have greens.

01:18:26

Granted it's almost always whole greens.

01:18:29

They're not refined or stripped of any nutrients in any form, so I'm pretty particular about

01:18:35

that.

01:18:36

But outside of that, like you're saying, it's a pretty straightforward.

01:18:41

He wants you to eat wild stuff, essentially.

01:18:45

Whole products and wild stuff.

01:18:47

Yeah.

01:18:48

He does mention fungi, so mushrooms.

01:18:51

I'm sure that made you happy.

01:18:53

Yep.

01:18:54

Very happy.

01:18:55

Bring on the--

01:18:56

Roots.

01:18:57

Yeah.

01:18:58

Yes.

01:18:59

My talking team.

01:19:01

I think the big takeaway for me is just try to stick to your diet and don't eat the junk.

01:19:08

He would say it this way.

01:19:10

Stay 100% clean.

01:19:11

Don't make any exceptions.

01:19:13

Put down that donut.

01:19:14

He really doesn't like donuts.

01:19:17

He really does like donuts.

01:19:18

He just doesn't want you to eat them.

01:19:21

Very true.

01:19:22

Very true.

01:19:23

So yeah, I think whatever diet you're going to land on, just make sure that you're viewing

01:19:29

it as a way to keep you going.

01:19:32

It's not a source of happiness, so to speak, which I think maybe is where I get off with

01:19:39

the-- some of this stuff is like, you don't need the pizza and the stuff like that just

01:19:45

in order to change your mood.

01:19:47

Actually that stuff has a negative effect to it, which is really what he's focused on

01:19:50

in all of this stuff.

01:19:51

So viewing food as simply fuel and not an experience, so to speak, which is easier to

01:19:59

do when you eat a meal at home.

01:20:01

True.

01:20:02

True that.

01:20:03

He also talks about fasting, which I mentioned.

01:20:06

This is something that I just did and I plan on doing more frequently.

01:20:12

He says it very directly in typical Jocko style.

01:20:16

He says, "You don't have to eat."

01:20:20

And there's lots of benefits that come from fasting, like recalibrating your hunger demand,

01:20:27

and it helps you exercise your will, which is tied obviously to the big idea of discipline.

01:20:34

So simply that in terms of an exercise for developing that, I think is valuable, but

01:20:40

I think that there's a bunch of other benefits that he didn't even really speak to with this.

01:20:44

So reminder for me to practice this more regularly and something I want to work into my routine,

01:20:52

although I haven't figured out quite how often I want to do that yet.

01:20:56

Mosquito has a point that I want to bring up because this is, I have this written down

01:21:00

as a point that I want to bring up too.

01:21:02

In that, now that we're at the end of this section, fuel feeding the machine, we're addicted

01:21:07

to sugar.

01:21:08

Here's the diet you should have, you should fast.

01:21:11

The problem I have is that this is purely a food is a tool to be used and not an experience

01:21:20

to enjoy.

01:21:22

If I were to take the mindset that food is merely fuel, I believe my wife would throw

01:21:30

a fit.

01:21:33

My wife does 99% of the cooking in our household.

01:21:38

She is huge into cast iron, cooking things the way that they taste best, old world cooking

01:21:47

styles.

01:21:48

These are all things that she has a tendency to do and a lot of that emphasis is based

01:21:53

on enjoying the experience of what you're eating together.

01:21:58

That's a big deal to her.

01:22:00

If I were to just say, nope, I got to get this eaten because I got to get back to work

01:22:04

and I've got things to do and I've got a mission to destroy and I need to take on the world,

01:22:10

I don't think she would be very happy with me.

01:22:15

So I think that there is something to be said about not spending two hours at a table.

01:22:22

I think maybe that would be a more appropriate perspective on it, but I like the food that

01:22:29

my wife makes so I'm not going to just treat it like it's a tool.

01:22:33

I think that's fine.

01:22:35

I don't think that's in contrast to what he's saying.

01:22:40

That's interesting.

01:22:41

I make that connection because the junk for me typically happens when I haven't thought

01:22:48

about what I'm going to do for a specific meal.

01:22:52

So I'm like, oh, well, I'll just order a burrito or something.

01:22:57

Or the stuff that happens in between meals, which is again, not at all the same thing

01:23:03

that you're talking about where we're going to sit down together at this time and we're

01:23:06

going to share a meal together.

01:23:09

I agree there's something additional to that experience beyond the nutritional value of

01:23:16

the food and feeding the machine.

01:23:18

But I think the approach of you don't need the extra stuff whenever you have the tiniest

01:23:26

little craving, that is the big takeaway here for me.

01:23:32

And I agree with that 100%.

01:23:35

For me, it usually is like if I've had a long day after dinner, kids have gone to bed, like

01:23:42

that's the point where I'm just find myself in the kitchen from a drink through the pantry

01:23:47

looking for something to eat.

01:23:49

So speaking directly to me is like that nine o'clock snack that you have, like you don't

01:23:54

need that.

01:23:55

And it's never anything like potato chips or ice cream.

01:24:00

Usually it's like stuff that's on his list.

01:24:02

We've got a big thing of peanuts.

01:24:04

I'll grab some peanuts, but I just find myself not even thinking about it sometimes, just

01:24:09

standing in the pantry looking at stuff.

01:24:13

What can I grab off the shelf and eat right now?

01:24:16

That's what I'm looking for.

01:24:17

So now when I open that pantry, I'm going to see Jaco's face.

01:24:20

It's like back away.

01:24:23

You don't need to eat.

01:24:24

That is amazing.

01:24:26

So that's fuel.

01:24:28

The last one here is repairing maintenance well before the workouts.

01:24:33

After maintenance, injury prevention and recovery.

01:24:36

Shortest section in the book.

01:24:38

There's two chapters here.

01:24:41

One on stretching.

01:24:43

I'm curious.

01:24:44

What did you think about this chapter?

01:24:46

I've heard a lot of things about stretching.

01:24:48

Doesn't matter.

01:24:49

I don't know if that's true or not.

01:24:51

I've seen some studies that show if you could stretch, if you stretch before you work out

01:24:57

versus not stretching before you work out makes no difference.

01:24:59

Like I've seen some studies around that, which is interesting to me.

01:25:03

But I think in the perspective I had on it with that background is that while stretching

01:25:09

does help you get blood flow going and get your metabolism or not metabolism, but your

01:25:15

heart rate up a bit, they don't really talk about that aspect of it.

01:25:19

In the studies that I'm referring to, they generally are talking about muscle tearing

01:25:23

and such in that process.

01:25:25

So I don't think it's a good thing to skip your stretching routine before you do a workout.

01:25:31

But I can't say there was anything in his particular explanation of this that I would

01:25:38

say is, "Yes, absolutely.

01:25:39

Oh, that's life changing."

01:25:40

Like, "Oh, well, stretch."

01:25:42

So that was my perspective.

01:25:45

All right.

01:25:46

So he did not convince you to start stretching, it sounds like.

01:25:49

Not for stretching, sake, no.

01:25:52

Okay.

01:25:53

Well...

01:25:54

Did it you?

01:25:55

I've been doing this for years, to be honest, because I have dealt with sciatic nerve pain.

01:26:01

Okay.

01:26:02

And I went to the physical therapist for the stuff with my knee.

01:26:09

They gave me some stretches which help not only with the ligaments, because it was my

01:26:18

tendon had slipped off of my kneecap and on the side of my leg, which is why I had to

01:26:22

go to the physical therapist in the first place.

01:26:24

But I've got a whole custom routine that I do for back and legs, core stretches essentially

01:26:34

every single morning, which has alleviated the sciatic pain altogether.

01:26:38

Sure.

01:26:39

So this is absolutely life changing for me.

01:26:42

Sure.

01:26:43

Because every once in a while, I'll wake up with that sciatic pain and it's just burning

01:26:49

down both of my legs behind my knees.

01:26:52

And it's just dull, but also intense pain to the point where I can't sleep at night.

01:27:00

And I'm uncomfortable basically no matter what I do.

01:27:05

And so I never want to experience that again, and stretching has greatly reduced that for

01:27:10

me.

01:27:11

So maybe I should introduce this.

01:27:12

I don't know.

01:27:13

I should maybe look at...

01:27:15

I have some logs from when I was doing yoga daily.

01:27:19

I don't know that I ever connected differences in mood, stress, and such whenever I was in

01:27:26

the middle of that.

01:27:27

I have to go look.

01:27:28

I don't know.

01:27:29

Yeah, I think...

01:27:30

Now I'm curious.

01:27:31

I think everybody is going to have their own version of what are the stretches that provide

01:27:36

the most benefit.

01:27:39

But I could totally see a scenario where everyone has something that they could do that would

01:27:44

improve their life.

01:27:46

Not just prevent injury.

01:27:49

But alleviate pain, which obviously is tied to a whole bunch of other stuff.

01:27:55

I don't know anything about what you were talking about with stretching prior to working

01:27:59

out and things like that.

01:28:00

I've just always done that.

01:28:02

Yeah.

01:28:03

Usually before I go for a run and then after I go for a run.

01:28:05

Correct.

01:28:06

That's what I do.

01:28:07

I do know that the days that I don't stretch when I come back, I feel it the next day.

01:28:14

Sure.

01:28:15

I almost never...actually I do never go for a run and never exercise without stretching

01:28:22

first.

01:28:23

So I can't speak to...

01:28:25

It just seems weird.

01:28:26

It feels weird too.

01:28:27

It does.

01:28:28

I don't think I would feel real great about going out for a long run without stretching

01:28:33

first.

01:28:36

And then the other thing here with dealing with injuries and illness, he makes the point

01:28:40

that you are going to get injured.

01:28:42

You are going to get sick.

01:28:44

And the advice here I think is spot on that when that happens, do what you can.

01:28:51

And if you can't do something specifically because you are injured, if you hurt your

01:28:54

leg, you're not going to go for a run.

01:28:56

Find something else that you can do.

01:28:58

I kind of had to do this when I did hurt my knee when I was running.

01:29:02

I couldn't run for a long time, but I could use the exercise bike at the gym.

01:29:07

So I did that instead.

01:29:09

And then they told me through physical therapy that that's actually really good because it

01:29:14

builds up the muscles and keeps your tendon where it's supposed to be.

01:29:17

It's either build up those muscles and hope the tendon goes back or have surgery.

01:29:20

And I'm like, "No, I don't want to have surgery."

01:29:22

Okay, I'll do whatever you say.

01:29:25

Whatever you say, I'll do it.

01:29:27

So I like that.

01:29:29

And I think that's an approach I can take with other areas of my life where if you can't

01:29:35

do something, doesn't mean you can't do anything.

01:29:39

So look for the alternatives.

01:29:41

In other words, keep doing actions.

01:29:44

Don't stop.

01:29:45

Exactly.

01:29:47

Just maybe not the actions Jocko would recommend because the last section here is the appendix.

01:29:51

That's all the workouts.

01:29:52

I have no interest in doing any of these.

01:29:55

I've kind of dialed in specifically the workouts that make a difference for me.

01:30:01

And like I said, I've gone through physical therapy.

01:30:03

So I know that there are certain things that I do need to incorporate into my routine like

01:30:07

regular biking or cycling.

01:30:11

And I'm not going to drop all of that and do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu instead.

01:30:19

But I think if you're into that sort of thing, I don't know nothing about CrossFit.

01:30:24

But this seems to me like this would be very similar, the types of things that you would

01:30:29

be doing.

01:30:30

If you don't have access to a CrossFit gym and you're looking for something you can do

01:30:32

from home, the stuff that he recommends at the end because it's broken down into like

01:30:37

beginner, intermediate, advanced, that probably is a great place to start.

01:30:41

But I'm not going to.

01:30:43

Right.

01:30:44

Right.

01:30:45

Yeah, I would agree with that.

01:30:46

I had a chance to pre-COVID ran sound at a CrossFit gym for it was like an anniversary

01:30:54

celebration that they did for the CrossFit gym itself.

01:30:58

So every year they would do some big celebration.

01:31:01

And the band was asked to come in and play music.

01:31:05

So I went and ran sound for it.

01:31:06

So I got to talk to a lot of the people who go to the gym and did not know until that

01:31:12

night that one of the band members was a member of the gym and participated in CrossFit.

01:31:17

Didn't know that.

01:31:18

So it was very fun to learn that too.

01:31:20

But a lot of the activities that I learned about from folks who were at that event seemed

01:31:27

to correlate very strongly with what Jocko recommends here.

01:31:32

I know that just from seeing a lot of the pictures that are on every single page of

01:31:38

the entire book in the background, it seems like there's a lot of the same equipment that

01:31:43

I remember seeing at that CrossFit facility.

01:31:46

So I think he's a fan of CrossFit would be my guess.

01:31:49

Probably.

01:31:50

Yeah.

01:31:51

All right.

01:31:52

That's everything.

01:31:53

Anything else you want to add?

01:31:55

This is exactly what you would expect from a Navy SEAL when it comes to motivation.

01:32:00

That is true.

01:32:01

That is exactly what I would expect.

01:32:04

Do the thing.

01:32:05

Don't say it's too hard.

01:32:07

No excuses.

01:32:08

Get your tail to work.

01:32:09

Like that is exactly what you get with this book.

01:32:12

And I don't think I was disappointed at all on this.

01:32:18

This is a case where I think I got exactly what I expected.

01:32:21

I will say the form factor of it was very different from what I expected.

01:32:25

But it's definitely a motivation book through and through a little bit of application, but

01:32:30

mostly a motivation book.

01:32:31

Yeah.

01:32:32

I have no military experience, but it occurs to me that maybe the reason that they take

01:32:41

that approach is because they have proven it over and over and over and over and over

01:32:47

again.

01:32:48

Sure.

01:32:49

Like from the moment that you arrive in basic training, they're forcing you to do things

01:32:53

that you didn't really think you could do.

01:32:57

And I don't know.

01:32:59

Maybe I need some of that.

01:33:00

Sure.

01:33:01

Yeah.

01:33:02

Maybe not.

01:33:03

I don't know.

01:33:05

I think there's no harm in pushing yourself to see what you're capable of.

01:33:14

Even for someone like me who like with the sleep section, you know, I have medical reasons

01:33:20

why I'm not going to do certain things in a specific way.

01:33:23

But even with that, I think a lot of the stuff that would hold me back from doing what he's

01:33:30

telling me to do is just kind of preference stuff.

01:33:33

And at that point, you know, if I really want to reach my full potential, then I should

01:33:39

give it a shot.

01:33:40

And yeah.

01:33:43

So I guess getting into style and rating, I like this book in the format.

01:33:49

I had a little bit of trouble as I mentioned with some of the military language just because

01:33:54

of what happened recently in the US.

01:33:57

Yeah.

01:33:58

But I was able to go through it and distill the principles.

01:34:04

But I can see that being off putting for some other people.

01:34:06

So just know what you're getting into if you're going to pick this one up.

01:34:10

Recognize who Jackal Willink is and what his tone is going to be.

01:34:14

If you got a problem with that, then stay away.

01:34:17

Skip it.

01:34:18

But I think that a lot of the stuff that he talks about, especially in the thoughts section,

01:34:25

if you were to package just that part into a book, I feel like it would be worth it.

01:34:31

The actions are, I thought the action section was pretty good too.

01:34:35

When you got to the fuel and the repair and maintenance, that was definitely the weakest

01:34:39

part in my opinion.

01:34:41

But you're right.

01:34:42

Those two parts, those are basically the main sections of the book.

01:34:47

That's really what he wants to focus on is the mindsets and then the actions that come

01:34:52

from those mindsets.

01:34:54

He does a really great job.

01:34:55

I feel like no matter what your situation is of inspiring you to take action, whatever

01:35:01

that looks like for you.

01:35:03

Obviously, there's a physical exercise tone to a lot of this.

01:35:09

But I was we talked about at the beginning, I feel like there's a lot of direct application

01:35:13

here for knowledge workers that he doesn't need to speak directly to that part in order

01:35:18

for you to get it.

01:35:21

Very easy read because of the way that it's put together.

01:35:25

It's a pretty thick book.

01:35:26

It is 200-something pages, but some of the pages have like what, 50 words on them at

01:35:32

the most?

01:35:35

It's a work of art, basically.

01:35:38

It's not just a bunch of words that you read like you would think of for a typical book.

01:35:44

I am glad to have gone through this.

01:35:47

I am not sure how transformational this is going to be.

01:35:51

I also don't think you can rate this on the same level with some of the other stuff that

01:35:56

we've read.

01:35:57

I don't think it's on the same level in terms of like completely changing your perspective

01:36:03

as something like extreme ownership even.

01:36:06

So I'm going to rate this at 4.0.

01:36:10

I do think that just about anybody can go through this and get something out of it.

01:36:15

I do think there's a lot of good stuff in here.

01:36:17

I feel like he challenges a lot of the norms that maybe you've just believed a certain

01:36:24

thing for a long time.

01:36:25

He's kind of intentionally trying to destroy your thought processes around certain things

01:36:32

and get you to try something a little bit different.

01:36:36

I feel like he's very successful with that.

01:36:39

I got done with the book and did not feel bad like I was being yelled at for a long time.

01:36:46

I felt inspired to start getting up earlier going to bed earlier, changing some of my habits

01:36:54

and things like that.

01:36:56

A mission accomplished in my opinion with this book.

01:36:59

But recognize that's what you're getting.

01:37:02

If you're not looking for something that is motivational to get you to just show up and

01:37:06

do the things that you know you need to do, if you really have no idea where to even start,

01:37:11

maybe this isn't the best book for you.

01:37:12

Maybe something like atomic habits or tiny habits or something like that would be a little

01:37:19

bit better.

01:37:20

But I thought it was great for where we are and recognizing the bank of knowledge that

01:37:26

we already have from the books that we've gone through.

01:37:27

I feel like this is a good compliment to a lot of that stuff.

01:37:30

But not your traditional bookworm book.

01:37:33

I think that's a good thing though in this scenario.

01:37:35

Yeah, I think that's very valid.

01:37:37

This is something that I'm very grateful for having read.

01:37:42

I can't say that this is one that I would tell people to read in isolation from other

01:37:49

books like what you were saying.

01:37:51

It's a really good one if you have a bank or I would also say if you have listened to

01:37:59

a bunch of bookworm episodes and then you read this, I think it would be helpful.

01:38:04

Because I don't know that having actually read the books but at least understanding a

01:38:09

lot of the principles that we cover here on bookworm on the podcast, then picking this

01:38:15

up is a good move, I would say.

01:38:18

I think you nailed the rating at 4.0.

01:38:21

I will join you there.

01:38:24

So we have a double four.

01:38:25

But I think this is one that for me, I'm grateful for him destroying some of the, one

01:38:34

of the things was, "Where did it go?

01:38:38

Don't do what makes you happy.

01:38:40

Do what makes you better."

01:38:42

That was one of his quotes in the book.

01:38:44

It's like, "I'm with you on that because you can kind of redefine what better means.

01:38:49

But so many people tell you, find what makes you happy and do that every day."

01:38:52

That's what they tell you.

01:38:53

That's just a load.

01:38:57

It's just not what you should be doing day to day.

01:39:01

If you do what makes you happy, usually if you just focus on that, it's very narcissistic

01:39:06

and you end up hurting other people.

01:39:08

If you really, really get into that, that's not what you should be doing.

01:39:13

So don't focus on making yourself better and the people around you better.

01:39:18

And if you do that, that's what you should be focusing on every day.

01:39:21

That's I think some of the undertone in this book and it's some of what he's trying to

01:39:26

break down some of the excuses and the walls that we put up to prevent ourselves from doing

01:39:31

that because trying to make yourself better is not an easy task and it's not one that's

01:39:36

easily endeavored.

01:39:38

So it's one that I think he does a good job motivating you to take on.

01:39:42

So I think it's a great motivation book, which is exactly what he wrote it to be, I believe.

01:39:47

I'm one of the things that's a little weird to me is he calls it a field manual.

01:39:51

Yeah.

01:39:52

And when I saw that, in my head, I thought I was getting a motivational book and then

01:39:57

I saw a field manual on the front of it and my head, I was thinking, okay, well, now I'm

01:40:01

I going to have like action items every day for things to do?

01:40:05

Like in my, an actual manual of things you need to do, but that wasn't it until at least

01:40:10

the very end.

01:40:11

You're getting into crosshood.

01:40:12

It is.

01:40:13

Yeah, absolutely.

01:40:14

Yeah.

01:40:15

If you want to take his exercise routine and follow his sleep and, and all of the schedules

01:40:20

he puts in place, yeah, absolutely.

01:40:22

It's a manual, but he doesn't really call that a thing you have to do.

01:40:26

These are just suggestions.

01:40:27

It's not an actual bank of tasks to take on.

01:40:30

So again, it's a motivation book and that's exactly what you get.

01:40:33

If you are having a hard time getting yourself to do things, procrastinating and such like

01:40:40

he'll completely debunk almost every excuse you can come up with.

01:40:44

So it's great for that.

01:40:46

I'll say that.

01:40:47

So yes, I'll put it at 4.0.

01:40:49

So in terms of motivation, then do you have any action items from this?

01:40:54

I do.

01:40:55

I have one.

01:40:56

I'm going to, I'm going to try to my best to do the morning workout.

01:41:00

I don't know if that means getting myself to bed earlier, cutting my sleep slightly shorter

01:41:05

than normal.

01:41:06

I want to try to get to where I'm doing that daily.

01:41:09

So I don't know what that is going to mean, but that is the task that I'm going to take

01:41:13

on.

01:41:14

Cool.

01:41:15

Yeah.

01:41:16

I think I mentioned it in the episode, but I'm going to try to get a strength workout

01:41:20

in kind of as part of my morning routine.

01:41:23

I've got this stuff right here.

01:41:24

It doesn't have to take long.

01:41:25

It would be like 15, 20 minutes to be honest if I would just settle down and do it.

01:41:28

I just haven't really found the time to do that as part of my regular routine.

01:41:33

And I think that makes a lot of sense to do it there.

01:41:35

I'm also going to try to get up a little bit earlier.

01:41:38

I will report back on what time that ends up being.

01:41:41

But it's not going to be 4.30.

01:41:43

I'll tell you that right now.

01:41:46

I think a picture you're watching is what you're supposed to do.

01:41:48

Not happening.

01:41:49

Not happening.

01:41:50

I am also going to put some thought into the way I wrote it is completing my home gym.

01:41:58

It's not going to be complete though.

01:42:00

I'm going to figure out what else, if anything, I need.

01:42:04

I'm going to start with looking at the rowing machines.

01:42:06

Maybe I will get scared away by the price very quickly.

01:42:09

I do not know.

01:42:10

But sure.

01:42:11

I haven't been to the gym gym in almost 9 months.

01:42:17

And to be honest, I don't really have a desire to go back.

01:42:20

Before everything got shut down, I was there 6 days a week.

01:42:25

I'm still working out 6-7 days a week, but recognize that I don't need to get in the

01:42:29

car and go there.

01:42:30

So kind of why would I?

01:42:33

But I need to think through what are the things I really want to be able to do at home.

01:42:38

And then do I have the equipment in order to do that?

01:42:41

I feel like I'm pretty close, but I need to spend some time thinking about that.

01:42:44

Sure.

01:42:45

Cool.

01:42:46

Cool.

01:42:47

All right.

01:42:48

So let's put this field manual on the shelf.

01:42:51

What's next, Joe?

01:42:52

The next one up is the organized writer by Anthony Johnston.

01:42:56

And I found out this did come out in November of last year.

01:42:59

So this is a fairly new one.

01:43:00

And my head it was a new or an older one, but it's not.

01:43:05

So I'm kind of excited about diving into this because I think it's one that will be

01:43:10

helpful for both you and I since we tend to do a decent amount of writing and I'm like

01:43:15

getting into more of it.

01:43:16

So I think it'll be a good one to cover.

01:43:18

It's like how to put together the tasks, actions and such as a writer.

01:43:23

So I think that'll be kind of an interesting topic for us to cover.

01:43:26

So yes, that one's next.

01:43:28

Cool.

01:43:29

And then I'm excited to read that one.

01:43:31

After that, we are going to cover a recommendation from many, many moons ago because it is now

01:43:38

in stock again and that is the great mental models, volume one by, I don't know the author.

01:43:47

Shane Parrish.

01:43:48

Shane Parrish.

01:43:49

Okay.

01:43:50

It's sponsored by automatic, the WordPress company.

01:43:52

It's a really pretty book and it talks about a lot of the concepts that we talk about a

01:43:57

lot.

01:43:59

But I think this will be interesting.

01:44:01

So this will be a great conversation.

01:44:03

I think there's going to be a lot of stuff that we can talk about from this one and how

01:44:07

we're going to apply this.

01:44:09

I'm excited about that one.

01:44:10

I followed Shane Parrish.

01:44:11

He writes the blog at Farnham Street.

01:44:13

Yes, Farnham Street.

01:44:15

That's it.

01:44:16

Yep.

01:44:17

Yeah.

01:44:18

So he's, I followed him for a long, long, long, long time.

01:44:21

Super bright guy.

01:44:22

So I'm excited about going through that one.

01:44:24

That'll be fun.

01:44:25

And if you like that book, I mean, there's three or four different volumes, I believe

01:44:29

now.

01:44:30

So they're, they look cool.

01:44:33

Sure.

01:44:34

Got any gap books?

01:44:35

No.

01:44:36

All right.

01:44:37

Well, I do, I do have one.

01:44:39

I ordered this a while ago.

01:44:41

It came not too long ago.

01:44:42

Michael Hyatt has one of those little books out called No Fail Habits.

01:44:47

So about the same size as like No Fail Meetings, stuff like that.

01:44:54

Habits is a thing that I am, I'm studying a lot at the moment.

01:44:58

True.

01:44:59

But yeah, for the last three years.

01:45:02

Totally.

01:45:03

Well, I mentioned I'm working on an update to the best habit tracker app for the suite

01:45:08

setup.

01:45:09

I'm actually going to be doing a webinar, not too far in the future on habits.

01:45:12

So I'm just kind of like relooking at everything, trying to see what else is, is new since the

01:45:19

last time I looked at this stuff.

01:45:21

And I don't know, beginning of the year, this is the time to think about habits, right?

01:45:25

Make adjustments to the, the systems in your life.

01:45:28

So that's kind of what I'm, what I'm doing.

01:45:30

Cool.

01:45:31

All right.

01:45:32

Thank you everybody for hanging out with us today.

01:45:36

Thank you specifically to our premium club members, the people who not just show up and

01:45:43

listen or attend the live recordings, but actually put some money towards maintaining

01:45:50

the show.

01:45:51

That really means a lot to both Joe and myself.

01:45:54

If you want to become a premium club member, it's five bucks a month.

01:45:57

There's a yearly option as well.

01:45:59

And you get a couple of perks.

01:46:02

One of the things that I added recently is the, the book notes that I take.

01:46:07

I've mentioned it even in this episode.

01:46:09

I create these MindNote files.

01:46:11

Those are in a separate section in the bookworm club where you can download those, but I'm

01:46:14

also starting to put all of those inside of a public room graph.

01:46:18

And there's a link that you can get to that.

01:46:20

So everything is connected.

01:46:22

It's got all the quotes and things like that because I recognize that a lot of people were

01:46:26

using my mind maps as like a starting point for the books.

01:46:30

So I think this might be a cool idea to allow like the community to build this out together.

01:46:37

And the hope is that this turns into like a more complete collection of notes, kind of

01:46:41

like a wiki of everything that has been done in, in bookworm.

01:46:45

I shared it with Joe.

01:46:46

You don't need to have Rome in order to view it.

01:46:49

It's a website you put in the URL and you can click between the different things.

01:46:52

And I'm pretty, I'm pretty, I'm pretty happy with how that has, has turned out.

01:46:57

So if you want to get access to that, that's another perk.

01:47:00

You've got a wallpaper you can download.

01:47:02

Joe's got a couple of gap book episodes.

01:47:05

And really you do have our undying gratitude.

01:47:07

You know, if you're willing to chip in a couple of bucks a month to help support the show,

01:47:11

that really does mean a lot to us.

01:47:12

So thank you to everybody who has done that.

01:47:15

Absolutely.

01:47:16

And if you want to, I just want to point this out quickly.

01:47:19

If you want to see the live video recording, working on getting those up on our YouTube

01:47:25

channel as well.

01:47:26

So you can do that as well in the future.

01:47:29

So yes, if you are following along with us, if you're one of those who's willing to read

01:47:34

the books in two weeks before we release, check out the organized writer by Anthony Johnston.

01:47:42

We'll cover that in a couple of weeks and we will see you then.