Bookworm Transcripts

00:00:00

There's this really cool new app that came out on the App Store this week, Mike.

00:00:03

Oh, yeah, what's that?

00:00:05

It's Obsidian for mobile.

00:00:06

I need to get my bell out now so we can start hitting the bell for Obsidian every single

00:00:12

time it comes out.

00:00:13

Blake's got the emoji in the chat for you.

00:00:16

There you go.

00:00:17

Nailed it, Blake.

00:00:18

So you've been on the Insider build for quite a while, right?

00:00:20

So you've been using Obsidian on mobile for a while, right?

00:00:25

Is that true?

00:00:26

I have, yep.

00:00:27

Okay.

00:00:28

What are your thoughts on it?

00:00:29

It's solid.

00:00:30

It's kind of amazing that they took essentially all of Obsidian and smashed it into an iOS app.

00:00:36

Sure.

00:00:38

It's not exactly the same, obviously, but one of the genius things I thought they did

00:00:43

was on an iPhone, you can swipe down from anywhere but the top of the screen, which

00:00:48

triggers either control center or your notifications.

00:00:51

And that triggers the command palette, which is the exact same gesture that opens up spotlight

00:00:56

inside of or in iOS on your home screen, which in a video for the upcoming course that I'm

00:01:03

working on at the sweet setup, I actually described the command palette as sort of

00:01:10

spotlight for Obsidian.

00:01:12

So that just instantly fit.

00:01:14

It's got the little mobile toolbar above the keyboard for like quick actions and things.

00:01:20

It really does a pretty good job of taking advantage of some of the interface differences

00:01:25

and using them in a positive way, but it still gives you access to the core and community

00:01:30

plugins, all the sync, all the stuff that's there on the desktop is there on mobile.

00:01:37

It's a pretty impressive launch.

00:01:39

I know like Federico Vitticci is using Obsidian primarily on an iOS device.

00:01:44

And I think at this point, I would recommend even mirror mortals like you and me that is

00:01:50

totally doable with this application.

00:01:52

Hmm.

00:01:53

Okay.

00:01:54

So let me just say that the sync on my side was painful to get set up.

00:02:03

So the way to set up sync with the iOS version is to open up the iOS app, create an Obsidian

00:02:12

vault stored in iCloud, which will then create an Obsidian folder in your iCloud drive.

00:02:19

Okay. And then a separate subfolder for the vault that you just set up.

00:02:25

So if you name your vault notes, it's going to be iCloud drive slash obsidian slash notes.

00:02:30

Then what you do is you take all of your stuff, if you're going to migrate it from the Mac,

00:02:35

you're going to dump it all in that iCloud drive folder and then you let iCloud drive

00:02:39

be the sync.

00:02:40

You don't actually use the obsidian sync service.

00:02:43

I agree.

00:02:44

I got some wonkiness when I was beaming stuff up and beaming stuff down.

00:02:47

There are advantages to doing it that way.

00:02:50

You get a year of revision history and it's all end to end encrypted.

00:02:54

So there's people who that's the right solution for, but everybody else, save yourself the

00:03:00

four slash eight bucks a month and just put it in an iCloud drive folder.

00:03:05

And if you put it in a get repository, this is going to be completely painful for you.

00:03:09

Just going to say that because it forces you into that.

00:03:13

So you end up with a scenario where, like for example, I had my notes in an iCloud folder,

00:03:24

but that doesn't work.

00:03:26

Like I couldn't just reuse that and open it in obsidian because it has to be in its little

00:03:31

sandboxed area in the obsidian folder.

00:03:35

Yep.

00:03:36

Correct.

00:03:37

So you have to move it there if you want to use that.

00:03:39

You can create a local.

00:03:42

Not sure why you would do that when everybody wants sync and such.

00:03:47

So I had to do like moving my Git repo on my Mac and then yes, basically reconfigure

00:03:55

almost all of it to get it to continue working, which I wasn't expecting.

00:04:00

In my head, I was like, oh, well, let me just open a vault.

00:04:02

I've already got the notes and working copy.

00:04:04

Let's see if it will actually let me use the file system on the phone and the answer

00:04:09

was no.

00:04:10

You couldn't do that.

00:04:11

I'll just put it over.

00:04:12

So just be aware that if you're going to use it, that's a thing outside of that.

00:04:16

I haven't used it a ton, but I have used it a little bit and I can't really say what I

00:04:25

would use it for outside of a potential inbox.

00:04:29

In-sought like on my phone, but drafts serves that purpose.

00:04:32

So I haven't really figured out why I'm using it on my phone yet.

00:04:35

So I'm glad I didn't pay the extra just to be on the insider to get it ahead of time

00:04:41

because I'm not sure I'm going to use it.

00:04:44

It's there.

00:04:46

It's kind of cool.

00:04:47

I'm glad that they were able to get it out because I know that it has because of it being

00:04:52

an electron app, there's a ton that it is able to do from day one and they don't really

00:04:57

have to rewrite much at all to make it work.

00:05:01

So there's that.

00:05:02

Yeah, and also if you use the iCloud Drive Sync over the Obsidian Sync service and you

00:05:09

keep it in that iCloud Drive folder, it opens itself up to a lot of shortcut automation

00:05:15

through the Files app.

00:05:17

I actually use drafts to capture things.

00:05:20

And so if you're just going to use Obsidian to capture stuff, there are better options.

00:05:24

But if you want a note-taking app kind of with the intended purpose of using it for

00:05:30

creation, I think it's the best option out there at the moment.

00:05:34

Yeah, it's fair.

00:05:35

I mean, I'm doing a lot of my stuff through drafts and such into working copy, which then

00:05:42

syncs via Git.

00:05:44

And then it shows up that way with the automatic stuff.

00:05:47

So I do a lot of that, which is fine.

00:05:50

But it's just an edge case and an edge scenario that's not typical for people.

00:05:56

So just be aware that if you're one of these weird nut jobs like me, that's a thing.

00:06:00

You've got to be aware of.

00:06:02

Fun times.

00:06:03

All right.

00:06:04

So should we do some follow-up?

00:06:06

Let's do it.

00:06:07

You want me to go first?

00:06:09

Sure, why not?

00:06:10

All right.

00:06:11

I didn't do these.

00:06:14

I kind of did them.

00:06:15

The PopTeg and OmniFocus I did not do, but I don't think I looked at OmniFocus this

00:06:20

week.

00:06:21

So fail.

00:06:24

Identify tasks to delegate.

00:06:26

I don't have a big list of these.

00:06:27

But I have delegated tasks.

00:06:29

So this is kind of win.

00:06:32

I have an assistant now, which is great.

00:06:36

And one of the things that I am terrible at doing is remembering to go post on my own

00:06:44

personal site about the podcast that I published.

00:06:49

I have no problem publishing book or amount time.

00:06:52

I have no problem publishing intentional family on time.

00:06:54

I have no problem publishing focus.

00:06:56

But all of those live on different servers.

00:06:59

There's different processes associated with all of those.

00:07:02

And then I never go back to my own site and write a summary post and be like, hey, you

00:07:06

know, in this episode, Joe and I covered this book.

00:07:09

And so I now have delegated the process for all three of those podcasts to an assistant

00:07:15

who is doing a great job preparing the posts.

00:07:18

And then I just go in and publish them within 24 hours after she creates them.

00:07:25

And I've been doing that just so I can make sure that she doesn't have any questions.

00:07:28

And she understands the process, but she's doing an awesome job.

00:07:31

So I'm ready now to just let her hit publish on her own, which sounds like a stupid little

00:07:37

thing.

00:07:38

But what I've realized with this, because these at least post literally take like five, maybe

00:07:41

10 minutes at the atops to create on my site, but it's the kind of thing where it's like,

00:07:46

Oh, I know I should do that at some point.

00:07:49

And then I don't do it because I'm doing something else, but it's in the back of my

00:07:53

mind and it causes me to always go back and think about that.

00:07:56

And so I can't the thing that I'm doing takes longer.

00:07:59

So the actual cost for me not doing these is probably many, many hours.

00:08:04

If you add it all up and I've delegated now, don't think about it.

00:08:09

So that's pretty cool.

00:08:10

I've also delegated some podcast editing.

00:08:14

Intentional family is now being edited by my son who did a phenomenal job.

00:08:18

I showed him kind of my approach to editing.

00:08:21

He's using Fairwright on the iPad and then I'm like, okay, now you try this one, you

00:08:25

know, and he's editing it on a Saturday and I'm there with him so I can answer any questions

00:08:30

that he has.

00:08:31

How did you handle this one?

00:08:32

You know, I showed him like first five minutes.

00:08:33

He did the rest of the episode and then he gave it to me to spot check.

00:08:37

I made three additional edits.

00:08:40

He got on so quick.

00:08:43

He's probably better at it than I am.

00:08:49

So yeah, I don't have to edit intentional family anymore, which is pretty cool.

00:08:55

And then the last one, identifying tests to batch this I did not do.

00:08:59

I probably should still do this.

00:09:02

Just figure out like what are all my admin tasks, kind of like a shutdown routine sort

00:09:06

of a thing, which I think that's what this is going to morph into.

00:09:10

For me, I've been thinking about that is redefining my morning and evening routines.

00:09:16

And I think a shutdown routine would be a logical addition to that.

00:09:21

But just identifying a bunch of things that I can batch do whenever I have time doesn't

00:09:25

make a whole lot of sense to me.

00:09:27

Good work.

00:09:28

I have to admit that the pop tag and OmniFocus sounded like a hokey thing to me from the beginning.

00:09:35

I've seen folks that do like the procrastinate tag in OmniFocus.

00:09:40

I don't think I've ever done that, but it, I don't know.

00:09:45

I've never seen anybody pull it off successfully.

00:09:47

It's a fun concept, but I don't know that I've ever seen it.

00:09:51

So here's, here's what I'm really after and the pop tag really isn't probably the way

00:09:55

to do this, but like I want something to show up in a certain perspective.

00:10:00

It's like, Hey, you chose not to do this before.

00:10:06

And that's tally number one.

00:10:08

And now you're choosing not to do it again.

00:10:11

That's tally number two.

00:10:13

And by the time you choose not to do it a third time, it should just automatically be deleted.

00:10:17

Like if I was creating my own application, that's what would happen here.

00:10:21

Sure.

00:10:22

Because like stuff keeps popping up, not even in a review context, because I know review

00:10:26

is like a really killer feature for OmniFocus.

00:10:29

And that's not really what I'm talking about because you could review a project every week

00:10:34

and you're going to review it a bunch of different times.

00:10:36

But I want this like exploding thing, which is going to keep track of you keep putting

00:10:42

this off.

00:10:44

Now you have to stop doing it because you're never going to do it.

00:10:47

Let's be real here.

00:10:48

Sounds like you need a set of scripts for it.

00:10:51

Potentially, I'm a little bit nervous automating that, but that's kind of the thought process.

00:10:58

And so with the original pop tag, it was going to be, okay, you're looking at this once pop,

00:11:02

you know, sub tag one.

00:11:04

And then next time you just change the sub tag pop two by the time you get to pop three.

00:11:08

Now you have everything pop three, you can go look at those and be like, okay, these

00:11:11

are the ones that you need to just batch delete because you're never going to do them.

00:11:16

Or it auto deletes.

00:11:17

It could, but that's a part that's scary to me.

00:11:21

Until I do it manually first, I don't want to automate it.

00:11:24

Oh, if you automated it, puts a little fire under it.

00:11:28

That is also true.

00:11:30

Anyway, that said, I had one task from last episode, which was to create some templates

00:11:38

for video projects, which I did do.

00:11:41

And that has proved extremely helpful and have used those a few times already.

00:11:46

So kudos to templates.

00:11:48

I feel like one of the interesting things with that is that it seems like that makes it easier

00:11:54

to start a video if that's a thing.

00:11:57

Like because the template is there, it feels like there's less time involved to do that.

00:12:03

Thus it's easier to do.

00:12:05

So that would be an encouragement to anybody who has projects like that.

00:12:11

Build a template.

00:12:12

It helps.

00:12:13

Yeah, templates are the unsung hero of automation, in my opinion.

00:12:20

Yes.

00:12:21

Because they're the kind of thing that anybody can use, even if you don't think you are an

00:12:28

automation person.

00:12:30

Most people think of automation.

00:12:32

They think of writing those custom scripts that you were just talking about for OmniFocus.

00:12:37

And that's, I don't even know how to do that stuff.

00:12:42

So that can be intimidating when you think about automation.

00:12:45

Like, well, I guess automation is just not for me.

00:12:49

But then you get into stuff like basic shortcuts.

00:12:54

And that still feels like, well, there's really some advanced stuff you can do with this.

00:12:58

Maybe this isn't for me.

00:12:59

And then you get even lower level templates and it's like, yes, these I totally can wrap

00:13:05

my brain around and I can leverage these right now.

00:13:08

Yes, yes, yes.

00:13:09

All right, let's step into today's book because I feel like there's a lot of things we could

00:13:13

talk about.

00:13:14

This is probably going to go along.

00:13:15

My apologies.

00:13:16

We'll get there.

00:13:17

But this is one that I have had recommended at least by two different people in multiple

00:13:23

cases and I'm kind of glad it's been recommended because this is going to be a fun conversation

00:13:31

here.

00:13:32

But this is "Leminal Thinking" by Dave Gray.

00:13:36

And I think every person that has seen this sitting on my desk or seen me carrying it somewhere,

00:13:44

which that generally happens in some form, like, wait, what?

00:13:47

What is "Leminal Thinking"?

00:13:49

Okay.

00:13:50

That's one response.

00:13:51

Oh, you have to let me know what you think of it.

00:13:54

That's the other response.

00:13:55

It's kind of one of those two is where people tend to land.

00:14:03

The subtitle on this is "Create the Change You Want" by changing the way you think.

00:14:09

I think that's an apt subtitle for this.

00:14:14

I'm kind of excited about this one.

00:14:16

I think this is along the lines of the Sheen Parish book that we read.

00:14:20

Yes.

00:14:21

I've drawn a blank on the title.

00:14:22

What?

00:14:23

"The Great Mental Models."

00:14:24

There you go.

00:14:25

I had the same thought.

00:14:26

Yep.

00:14:27

I don't normally remember the author's name and not the title.

00:14:30

I usually remember it the other way around.

00:14:32

But yeah, great mental models.

00:14:34

It kind of hits that same nerve with me.

00:14:39

And I don't know that it has the same--it doesn't have the same layout per se, but it

00:14:47

does have that feel at least.

00:14:50

What were your gut reactions on it, Mike?

00:14:52

Yeah.

00:14:53

So "The Great Mental Models" talks about this is a lattice work of frameworks that you can

00:14:58

use.

00:15:00

And this has a lot of the same sort of ideas except it's packaged more so in a system.

00:15:09

And I have thoughts on that.

00:15:11

But maybe let's get into the content first.

00:15:16

I'm still undecided if this way is better or worse.

00:15:22

I think I know which one I prefer.

00:15:26

But I also want to talk through this because more than once you've been able to change my

00:15:32

mind about things.

00:15:35

So is that a belief you're holding onto at the moment?

00:15:38

Yes.

00:15:39

So the ideas in here I really like.

00:15:43

The system I'm a little bit skeptical about.

00:15:46

I will tell you that.

00:15:47

So there's two parts here.

00:15:48

Part one, how belief shape everything where there's principles and then part two, what

00:15:52

do you do about it, where there are practices?

00:15:54

I'm not quite sure how to implement those practices consistently.

00:16:00

I know he's got like a whole big process and there's action items at the end of every

00:16:05

single one of these chapters.

00:16:07

And I did not go through and finish every one of those action items.

00:16:10

There's a couple that I jotted down is like, these are cool.

00:16:13

I'm going to do these.

00:16:15

But I don't really want to just follow the system that he kind of is outlining here.

00:16:22

And to be fair, he's not saying this is a system.

00:16:25

You got to do it this way.

00:16:26

But he is trying to lead you down a path and it feels very linear.

00:16:31

Whereas the great mental models does not.

00:16:34

Here's all of these ideas and you can combine them any way you want.

00:16:37

Yeah.

00:16:38

I think that's fair.

00:16:39

Let's start with, so in the introduction, he starts with what is liminal thinking, which

00:16:44

is the question I got a lot.

00:16:47

Because if you were to just sit and have someone define the term liminal thinking, most people

00:16:55

aren't going to have an answer.

00:16:56

I don't think at least the folks that I ran into didn't have any clue.

00:17:01

So liminal thinking, the word liminal comes from the Latin root.

00:17:06

I think it's lemon.

00:17:07

I assume it's lemon.

00:17:09

Limon.

00:17:10

Anyway, it means threshold.

00:17:12

So it's the point where you're crossing over from one thing into the other.

00:17:16

It's like that boundary between things.

00:17:18

So if you start to combine that, it's the boundary between thinking of one thing into

00:17:23

thinking another thing.

00:17:24

So it's the boundary between those two thoughts.

00:17:28

And on the surface, that seems like a very minor thing.

00:17:33

Okay.

00:17:34

Cool.

00:17:35

Fun thought.

00:17:36

You can have a thought that's between two thoughts, and it's called a liminal thought,

00:17:41

or liminal thinking in that time, or in that space.

00:17:45

But he takes it one step further, in that to use his argument here, change happens at

00:17:54

the boundaries of things, which makes sense when you start processing that.

00:17:58

So if liminal thinking is the boundary between two thoughts and change happens within boundaries,

00:18:07

change is able to happen with liminal thinking.

00:18:10

You with me?

00:18:11

Yep.

00:18:12

And that is the area that we're going to process and that he discusses in this book.

00:18:19

And it's really an interesting way to term it, I think.

00:18:24

I can't say that I have any argument against this concept of change happening within the

00:18:29

boundaries, because whenever I think about all of the change that's happened in society

00:18:33

over the years, almost every time, well, actually, I've never been able to find a thing where

00:18:39

change happened without a boundary of some kind, whether it's intellectual or physical,

00:18:44

I haven't been able to nail down what that would be.

00:18:46

But I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about that particular thought.

00:18:50

Anyway, change happens in the boundaries.

00:18:53

Yeah.

00:18:54

I don't have a whole lot to say about this introductory part.

00:18:59

I remember the threshold definition and then basically forgot about it until the end of

00:19:07

the book, you brought it back.

00:19:09

I'm not quite sure how it fits to the visual that he's building throughout the first section

00:19:17

here necessarily.

00:19:19

He basically is talking about how we define reality and what are you going to do with

00:19:26

that threshold definition when you look at that pyramid type diagram, for example.

00:19:32

Like it's cool.

00:19:35

You can jot it down, but so what?

00:19:39

It is a cool diagram.

00:19:40

I think we'll get to that.

00:19:42

Does he start that in the next?

00:19:44

In the first part?

00:19:45

I don't remember.

00:19:46

It might be part or principle number two.

00:19:49

Sure.

00:19:50

Okay.

00:19:51

Yeah.

00:19:52

We got 15 different chapters to get through.

00:19:53

Yeah.

00:19:54

Yeah.

00:19:55

So let's start with part one.

00:19:56

How beliefs shape everything?

00:19:59

And he's going to, within the very beginning of this part, he kind of lays out that beliefs

00:20:08

are the foundation that things stand on, and that is the foundation that so many things

00:20:17

that we think are founded on.

00:20:20

And he has this diagram that we'll try to explain here in a little bit, but he's trying

00:20:25

to dismantle that, if you will, and just show us that our beliefs are a very small construct

00:20:33

within the broader scheme of reality, if you will.

00:20:37

Now, that might sound kind of philosophical, but I think it makes sense as we go through

00:20:41

this.

00:20:42

And principle one, where he's starting to lay this foundation, is that beliefs are models.

00:20:50

And it, I'll just say this, at the beginning of each chapter, he has like this little sentence

00:20:55

that kind of summarizes the whole chapter, which is helpful, because you can kind of get

00:21:00

an idea of what you're about to go through.

00:21:04

Is it the beginning or is it the end?

00:21:05

I just realized it's at the end.

00:21:07

Never mind.

00:21:08

He summarizes it at the end.

00:21:09

Never mind.

00:21:10

I was reading it backwards.

00:21:11

But on principle one, he has this statement at the end, beliefs seem like perfect representations

00:21:15

of the world, but in fact, they are imperfect models for navigating a complex, multi-dimensional,

00:21:22

unknowable reality, which, unknowable reality is like, wait, what?

00:21:29

So anyway, beliefs are models.

00:21:32

He starts with the story of the blind men trying to describe an elephant.

00:21:36

They've all gotten individual part, and that's the reality that they know.

00:21:39

So when they describe an elephant, one of them is describing an ear, one of them is describing

00:21:43

the tail, one of them is describing the trunk.

00:21:45

And that is their reality.

00:21:47

And he says, we can grasp individual fragments, but we'll never be able to grasp the entire

00:21:52

thing.

00:21:53

He also says on page six that a belief is something you hold in your mind, a kind of

00:21:57

map or model of that external reality sounds a whole lot like the map is not the territory.

00:22:05

Exactly, Blake.

00:22:08

The difference here is that he adds one additional detail that you mentioned, Joe, that you're

00:22:13

never going to be able to fully understand the territory.

00:22:17

So yes, the map is the territory, but even the map maker, making their opinionated interpretation

00:22:25

of what is important is not able to know the entirety of the territory that they are trying

00:22:31

to summarize, which is a minor detail, but I think it's important.

00:22:36

The map is not the territory.

00:22:38

It's a quote by Alfred Korszibsky because that's on the page right at the end of this.

00:22:46

So that is right in the midst of all this because that is the transition from principle

00:22:51

one to two because principle two is beliefs are created.

00:22:55

This is where we get the pyramid that he uses.

00:23:00

It's not through the rest of the book, but he uses it sporadically through the whole

00:23:04

thing and beliefs are created.

00:23:07

And here's essentially what he's getting to.

00:23:10

I'm going to do my best to explain this pyramid through explaining this principle.

00:23:17

I think that's how it's going to work.

00:23:20

Basically your foundation that everything is built on is reality, quote unquote, which

00:23:26

he has in parentheses, the unknowable.

00:23:29

And on top of that is your experience, which is a big long block that things are built

00:23:35

on.

00:23:36

But the problem is that you have your attention focused on some small subset of your life

00:23:45

experience, which means you can imagine that as kind of a pole that sticks up one really

00:23:50

small stick that sticks up from that experience.

00:23:55

It's like a needle on a record player.

00:23:57

Exactly, exactly super tiny.

00:24:00

On top of that needle, somehow balanced up there are your theories.

00:24:06

And on top of that are your judgments.

00:24:09

And then on top of that are your beliefs.

00:24:12

So if you start to process all of this, you have the reality, which is the unknowable,

00:24:18

your experience, which you have your attention focus on one small piece of that to create

00:24:22

the stick on which your theories, your judgments, and thus your beliefs are all teeter tottering

00:24:29

up there.

00:24:30

And then above that, the beliefs on which you stand is what you think of as the obvious.

00:24:37

You and the other people in your bubble of belief.

00:24:40

Correct.

00:24:41

Yes.

00:24:42

And when you start to just think through all of these little tiny details with this, I

00:24:50

really, really like this diagram.

00:24:52

Yes.

00:24:53

Because it just clicks, at least for me, because there's so much that we have considered our

00:25:01

foundation, our core, how could anyone not believe this.

00:25:07

And yet, if you follow this model, all of that is founded on judgments, which are founded

00:25:12

on theories, which are focused on this stick of attention, which could easily be tipped

00:25:17

over if you don't try to prop it up with all of your ignoring other facts and such.

00:25:26

So there's a lot, a lot, a lot, I think in this particular diagram.

00:25:30

I'm a fan.

00:25:32

On the topic of that record needle attention, by the way, he shows some stats that our capacity

00:25:37

for perceiving information is about 11 million bits per second.

00:25:43

But your conscious attention, your focus is limited to 40 bits per second.

00:25:49

So already you're limited in your capacity for receiving the information, but the stuff

00:25:54

that you are really understanding is severely limited.

00:25:58

Yes.

00:25:59

So that's a very effective model for the point that he's making that you can't know everything,

00:26:06

because you are limited by the amount of information that you can take in.

00:26:11

I want to point out here, Josh mentions that this book was published before the Great

00:26:15

Mental Models.

00:26:17

And I think it's interesting, this chapter really spoke to me because I understood the

00:26:27

map is not the territory from the Great Mental Models.

00:26:29

And I was thinking about this.

00:26:31

The way he describes the map as not the territory is not very good, in my opinion.

00:26:39

If I would have just read that first chapter before getting to this chapter two, without

00:26:43

the context of reading the Great Mental Models, I feel like this would have been received

00:26:50

very differently by me.

00:26:53

So I don't really know what to do with that other than to call it out.

00:26:58

Like the Great Mental Models does a really great job of explaining the role of the cartographer

00:27:04

and selecting the things that are important.

00:27:09

But he's got a different kind of spin on it, and I think it's less effective, which is

00:27:12

just that, "Yeah, you're never going to know everything."

00:27:17

Which I don't really understand given the definition of liminal, because that threshold definition,

00:27:24

really what's the point of that except to understand where your limits are and then choose to step

00:27:31

beyond those?

00:27:33

I think that's what he's trying to teach us to do through all the action items that are

00:27:37

associated with this particular book.

00:27:40

But I feel like had I not read the Great Mental Models before this one, I would be much less

00:27:45

motivated to do so.

00:27:47

It would be very much more like pie in the sky.

00:27:50

Let's just think about this instead of let's actually do this.

00:27:53

Sure.

00:27:54

What do you think?

00:27:55

Yeah, no, I think that makes a lot of sense because the fact that both of us had independent

00:28:01

connections to the Great Mental Models coming into this one, it's an indicator I think

00:28:07

that it's one of those, as Mortimer Adler would say, is interconnected or there's a

00:28:14

term.

00:28:15

I'm drawing a blank on it.

00:28:16

There's a term he used for it where you're starting to put the book in perspective amongst

00:28:20

all the other books.

00:28:21

I think it's in topical reading, but I don't know the exact term for the connectedness

00:28:25

you're talking about.

00:28:27

Yeah, so because they're within the same topic, you can't help but put one within the view

00:28:34

with the lens of the other as a result.

00:28:37

So in this case, I don't think that's a bad thing.

00:28:42

It's just a thing to be aware of.

00:28:43

We have that bias because we have read the Great Mental Models coming into this one.

00:28:48

But in this particular principle, I think the point that he's trying to make here is

00:28:53

that the beliefs that we hold, that we stand on are created based on where we focus our

00:28:59

attention, which is kind of alarming when you stop and wonder about it for more than

00:29:06

10 seconds.

00:29:09

If that's all it takes to completely change somebody's beliefs, it's at least something

00:29:14

that you should keep in mind, I would say.

00:29:16

Which I think would bring us to Principle 3.

00:29:19

I know I'm kind of moving quickly through this and we're probably going to continue

00:29:23

doing that just because there's a lot to cover.

00:29:25

There's a lot here, yeah.

00:29:26

There is a lot.

00:29:27

I thought about trying to figure out how to cut some of this out, but I just don't think

00:29:30

it makes sense unless you touch on each one, at least briefly.

00:29:34

So anyway, Principle 3, beliefs create a shared world.

00:29:41

This particular one is, think about, okay, you have this belief that you have created

00:29:48

because of where you've chosen to focus your attention, but whenever you create those beliefs,

00:29:57

you're going to have the tendency to want to find other people who have that same belief.

00:30:02

And you're creating a world based on those underlying beliefs that you can share with

00:30:08

other people who also have that belief.

00:30:11

If that makes sense, it may be kind of a roundabout way to say that.

00:30:14

But basically, you're finding people who are like you and you're building your personal

00:30:21

world based on those belief systems.

00:30:23

Yes, although he really gets into that, in my opinion, in Principle 5 with the bubble

00:30:30

of belief.

00:30:32

There is an aspect of this, though, too, because it's in the title, beliefs create a

00:30:36

shared world.

00:30:38

He talks about the learning loop here, and that is that your needs influence your beliefs,

00:30:43

influence your actions, influence your results, and then that provides feedback.

00:30:47

And then that can either be positive or negative.

00:30:51

He defines them as a doom loop or a delight loop.

00:30:53

And he tells the story about the rescue dog that they had who bit one of their kids, and

00:30:59

then they had an option to respond and trigger a doom loop, or they brought in the dog whisper

00:31:06

and changed it into a delight loop.

00:31:08

I think that story is cool.

00:31:11

When I read that, I was like, if my dog bit somebody, I'm not hiring the dog whisper

00:31:19

to try to rehab the dog.

00:31:21

Reheav the dog, I love that.

00:31:25

Although, my emotional response is maybe a little bit raw.

00:31:28

I actually got bit by a dog a couple of weeks ago.

00:31:32

I was biking on a trail.

00:31:36

But someone had their dogs off of the leash on the right side of the trail.

00:31:41

I saw the one dog, and I have a bell on my bike, so I ding the bell.

00:31:46

Let them know, coming through on the left, go way over to the left side.

00:31:49

So there's plenty of space between me and the owner.

00:31:53

And I see the one dog off of the leash.

00:31:58

Here's me ding the bell and kind of cowers over by the owner.

00:32:01

And then so I'm going around him.

00:32:02

And then on the right side of this trail is a bunch of brush and all of a sudden, like

00:32:06

a bad out of hell comes this other dog.

00:32:09

Just booking it right towards me.

00:32:10

I go down into this little culvert ravine sort of a thing.

00:32:14

And I'm just thinking, there's no way this dog is going to get me.

00:32:18

It's got to be like, move to intercept a free safety in football.

00:32:22

And it's got to be perfect because I am booking it on my bike.

00:32:25

But he totally nailed me.

00:32:26

He bit me in the ankle.

00:32:28

So I'm bleeding.

00:32:30

I stop, I look at it and the guy's like, sorry about that.

00:32:33

And he takes off.

00:32:35

Good job.

00:32:37

Way to be a responsible dog owner.

00:32:39

Yeah.

00:32:39

Yeah.

00:32:40

So I don't know.

00:32:42

Maybe that is influencing my perspective when I read this is like, OK, good job for you.

00:32:47

That's not how I would have reacted at all.

00:32:50

That dog is out of here.

00:32:52

Yeah, I've been around a lot of--

00:32:56

my wife and I used to volunteer at a dog shelter where the dogs that people didn't want or

00:33:02

who had bitten someone, that's where they went.

00:33:04

And we got to be the ones who fed them and took them out for walks and all the things.

00:33:10

And all sorts of rough animals who have been through a lot.

00:33:15

And it's amazing how if you have the right demeanor, you can work with these dogs and

00:33:22

do a good job.

00:33:23

But some of them take a lot of very detailed care to be able to work with.

00:33:31

So dogs that just randomly run up and bite people and then run off just seems strange to me.

00:33:40

It wasn't a very deep bite.

00:33:43

I still do have a little bit of a scar on my ankle.

00:33:47

It happened two weeks ago.

00:33:48

But it wasn't deep enough where I felt like I needed to go in.

00:33:54

The guy took off so I couldn't make sure that it was registered, had it shots, whatever.

00:34:00

I mean, it looked like it had one of those harnesses on.

00:34:03

The guy just had unhooked it.

00:34:05

So I don't know.

00:34:06

OK.

00:34:07

Whatever.

00:34:08

But the big thing is if I, for me, it's a dog.

00:34:15

And I'm not going-- if my kids are doing something, which is triggering something in

00:34:21

the dog and causing the dog to react, like I'm going to tell my kids not to do that.

00:34:24

But also I'm going to get the dog out of that situation because I cannot control my kids

00:34:28

100%.

00:34:29

They're not going to be perfect little angels all the time.

00:34:31

And my kids are not going to get bit by a dog.

00:34:34

Like, I'm not going to allow that in my house.

00:34:38

So he's talking like his kid got bit by a dog.

00:34:41

I'm just like, what is wrong with you?

00:34:46

Get rid of that dog.

00:34:47

Your kid is more important.

00:34:48

But that's just my perspective.

00:34:49

I understand.

00:34:50

Sure.

00:34:51

Sure.

00:34:52

Different people.

00:34:53

But I had trouble relating to him at that point.

00:34:54

At this point in the book, he could not have chosen a worse example to keep me engaged.

00:35:00

Well, just to-- OK.

00:35:03

This will be a good example because this is what he's talking about, how your beliefs

00:35:08

inform how you perceive something.

00:35:11

I know, but he's also trying to inspire me to change, right?

00:35:13

And at that point--

00:35:14

I know.

00:35:15

But let me tell you how it came across to me because mine is very different than what

00:35:19

you took it as because whenever he says that he had the dog whisperer come in, you took

00:35:26

it as he's immediately trying to figure out how to train the dog not to do that again.

00:35:30

Right?

00:35:31

Is that fair to say?

00:35:32

Like, you're thinking he's assuming he's going to keep the dog and try to rehab the

00:35:37

dog.

00:35:38

And I took it as he brought this guy in to find out if it's something he should have-- like,

00:35:44

it should the dog be put down.

00:35:46

Like I took it as he wasn't sure he was able to make the right call on that.

00:35:50

So he brought in somebody who could.

00:35:52

And they're telling him, no, actually, you can work with this dog very easily to help

00:35:57

him.

00:35:58

And that's how I took it.

00:35:59

Like, he was just seeking a second opinion there.

00:36:03

But I don't think he actually calls out which way he was intending it because he doesn't

00:36:06

say that part.

00:36:07

Yeah, he does say that he had that thought like, oh, we got to put the dog down.

00:36:11

And I'm not saying you have to put the dog down, but the dog at least cannot live in

00:36:14

my house anymore.

00:36:16

And Josh brings up, depends on the kid, instigated it.

00:36:18

I disagree with that.

00:36:20

I mean, I have a three-year-old.

00:36:21

She's going to instigate a lot of stuff with our golden doodle.

00:36:25

But the very first thing that we did when we got it is I started messing with this thing.

00:36:29

Whenever it eats, I'm poking it in the mouth.

00:36:31

I'm pulling on its tail.

00:36:32

I'm going in between its paws.

00:36:34

I'm doing everything I can to annoy this dog.

00:36:37

And then when it responds even a little bit aggressively, I'm like, no, you don't let

00:36:41

it do that.

00:36:42

And it's learned over a couple of months.

00:36:44

It wasn't even that long.

00:36:46

And now my kids are so rough with this dog and it does not even care.

00:36:50

Like you can totally train this into a dog and if you are going to bring a dog into your

00:36:54

home and you have a family, I feel like this is your responsibility.

00:36:57

Like, yes, you do have to make sure the dog is not going to react and bite a kid.

00:37:05

But at the same time, you don't know where the dog is coming from when you get a rescue

00:37:09

dog.

00:37:10

So these two things, my personal opinion, don't mesh very well.

00:37:14

It's not something I would be willing to do.

00:37:17

But different strokes, different folks.

00:37:21

Dogs, kids, shared worlds.

00:37:24

Great fun.

00:37:25

Right?

00:37:26

So, all right, let's keep going because the next one's kind of fun to principal for beliefs,

00:37:32

create blind spots.

00:37:33

I like this one.

00:37:35

This one's very interesting because what generally happens is if you hold a belief, it's very

00:37:42

difficult, if not impossible, to see outside of it.

00:37:47

And there are a few, I have all sorts of things where this comes up.

00:37:51

But one of the stories he tells is that he had a friend tell him that he was unable to

00:37:56

get a job as a, was an associate professor at a college because he didn't have a master's

00:38:03

degree.

00:38:04

And he figured he could either go through the work, get a master's degree so that he could

00:38:13

apply to the job or it could just apply to the job and find out if he actually needed

00:38:18

a master's degree.

00:38:20

So he opted to apply for the job without the master's degree and got the job without

00:38:24

the master's degree.

00:38:27

Because this other person, and I've heard this many times, you can't get certain jobs

00:38:32

because you don't have X, Y, and Z credentials.

00:38:35

And people say that fairly regularly, but it's odd the number of times those exceptions

00:38:40

are made.

00:38:42

One that I know, that I had to work through just here recently was whenever I was in the

00:38:48

process of trying to buy our new house, new old house, definitely not new.

00:38:55

New to you, right?

00:38:57

It's over 100 years old.

00:38:58

So it's definitely not new.

00:39:00

The thing is that they were telling us, at least the mortgage company was telling us,

00:39:05

we couldn't close on the house within a certain amount of time because it needed a new septic

00:39:10

and they weren't going to allow us to close on it until the septic was put in.

00:39:14

Okay.

00:39:16

So I don't know any different.

00:39:18

So I just kind of follow that.

00:39:19

I relay that to my agent who immediately says, "Oh no, they can close without the septic

00:39:25

being done.

00:39:26

We'll just do X, Y, and Z and then it'll be fine."

00:39:28

And I'm sitting here like, "Wait.

00:39:30

What?"

00:39:31

But the guys who give us the money to be able to write the check, to be able to close on

00:39:35

the house said no, and you're telling me yes.

00:39:37

Okay.

00:39:38

Now what?

00:39:39

So what do we do?

00:39:41

Long story short, we closed in 28 days.

00:39:43

So septic still isn't installed, but it's being installed very shortly because they allowed

00:39:49

us to close without the septic being installed because of some quirks and how all the rules

00:39:55

work.

00:39:56

And it worked out better for everybody involved and it made it a better deal for everybody

00:40:02

involved.

00:40:03

But that was a blind spot, at least to me.

00:40:06

I had no idea that was even an option, but in front of the right person, it's like, "Oh

00:40:12

no, you can get an exception on that.

00:40:14

That's fine."

00:40:15

What?

00:40:16

Anyway, that's an example of a blind spot.

00:40:19

That's what he's talking about here.

00:40:20

Yeah, and the name of the term that he uses for this is limiting belief, a belief that

00:40:27

narrows the range of possibilities.

00:40:30

And he mentions that even your closest friends may share limiting beliefs that close off

00:40:35

opportunities for you, even though they have the best of intentions.

00:40:40

So your mortgage company is just trying to make it simple for you to understand what

00:40:47

the steps are and outline everything.

00:40:50

So you can move forward as quickly as possible.

00:40:53

And then your agent is like, "Actually, you can do these other things and show you some

00:40:57

different opportunities, a different path, a different way of doing things."

00:41:04

And that's cool that you had somebody who was thinking that way, who was able to do

00:41:08

that for you.

00:41:09

I think it's a little bit more difficult when you don't have someone who's telling you,

00:41:12

"Hey, try these other things."

00:41:16

Like the situation of the person who has just gotten the advice that, "Yeah, you need

00:41:20

a master's degree before you can apply for this position."

00:41:23

If there's no one else telling you otherwise, it's hard to put yourself in the position

00:41:26

where, "Well, I'm just going to see what happens."

00:41:29

But I love that idea of like everything that people tell you, questioning whether that

00:41:35

is actually true and seeing which you can get away with basically.

00:41:39

Yes.

00:41:40

Yeah.

00:41:41

I have to say like that whole concept of like what we went through with getting the

00:41:47

house closed and the time frame that we did.

00:41:49

There were at least five different entities involved that all had to align with exceptions

00:41:56

in order to make that happen.

00:41:59

Every single one of them, I was the one that had to make those calls and get those exceptions,

00:42:04

which is strange that I even was able to do that because that is not me at all.

00:42:12

Going through that process, just in talking to these folks, almost everybody was in the

00:42:17

mindset that, "Oh, you need that.

00:42:20

Oh, okay.

00:42:21

I mean, we don't normally do that, but I suppose that's okay.

00:42:25

Let me, well, yeah, okay.

00:42:26

I'll send that letter over."

00:42:28

Almost all of them were that way.

00:42:30

It made me like, "Huh, maybe I should just ask for random things and just see what people

00:42:37

give.

00:42:38

I don't know.

00:42:39

Maybe that's taking advantage.

00:42:40

I don't know, but like, okay, sure.

00:42:43

Why not?"

00:42:44

So the one thing I hear from people all the time whenever I talk about email and like

00:42:48

disconnecting from your email, like, "Oh, that's great for you.

00:42:50

I could never do that."

00:42:52

How do you know?

00:42:53

Have you ever tried to apply this principle to breaking free from your email?

00:42:58

I bet it would work.

00:42:59

Yep.

00:43:00

I hear you.

00:43:01

I hear you.

00:43:02

Anyway, it's about as cool as getting a job that requires a master's without the master's.

00:43:08

Great.

00:43:09

That's the place to start for this kind of stuff, I think, is like question all of the

00:43:14

guiding principles that govern the way that you operate and try to move the needle in

00:43:22

the direction that you want it to go.

00:43:24

Yes.

00:43:25

Yep.

00:43:26

There's all sorts of things to, like, since going through that process, and we're doing

00:43:32

a massive remodel on the house right now, so I've got a lot of stuff torn apart.

00:43:36

But when I've had inspectors or engineers in and out, like, generally a lot of people

00:43:41

are like, "Oh, no, you can't do this because of X, Y, and Z."

00:43:45

I've learned at this point to just ask, like, "Well, what would make it possible?"

00:43:49

Sure.

00:43:50

Like, I'm not asking for an exception.

00:43:52

I'm not asking you to do anything.

00:43:55

I just want to know what would it take to make it possible.

00:43:58

Yes, I cannot take X, Y, and Z.

00:44:00

I can't take that wall out of the house.

00:44:02

Sure.

00:44:03

It would make it possible for me to take that wall out of the house.

00:44:06

What has to happen for that to be able to be done?

00:44:10

And in every case so far, I'm like, "Oh, well, you have to put this concrete thing in

00:44:16

the basement, and then you could put that beam in."

00:44:19

It's like, "Oh, so whenever I do this, I can take that wall out if I add a pad in the basement."

00:44:26

Yeah.

00:44:27

So it's not impossible.

00:44:29

So you get what I'm saying?

00:44:31

Yep.

00:44:32

And then the question is, it's strangely satisfying, honestly.

00:44:35

But even if they believe it's impossible, there are places where you can push and bend

00:44:40

the rules.

00:44:41

He tells a story later on about the guy who works at the place where you have to wear

00:44:46

a certain uniform.

00:44:47

I think it was a white shirt and blue slacks.

00:44:51

And he just wore whatever he wanted, and he just kept doing it.

00:44:56

And everybody saw it, and they're like, "This guy keeps breaking the rules."

00:44:59

But no one did anything about it, and over time he kept doing this, and then he also

00:45:04

brought in a whiteboard and drew something different on it every day.

00:45:09

And the fact that he was breaking the rule branded him as the creative guy.

00:45:14

It actually created more value in the eyes of everybody else in the company who was just

00:45:19

abiding by the rule.

00:45:21

So if they would have went and asked somebody, is this possible, they would have said, "No,

00:45:25

it's impossible."

00:45:26

But he just did it anyways, not only got away with it, but essentially got promoted in everybody's

00:45:31

eyes because of it.

00:45:34

This is where it's just fascinating to me.

00:45:36

Like, okay, well people have these limiting beliefs.

00:45:40

They may not even realize they have them.

00:45:42

If you even hint at a question towards them, they can sometimes crumble very quickly, which

00:45:50

leads us into the next one.

00:45:52

Level five, beliefs defend themselves.

00:45:56

Basically there's this concept of self-ceiling logic where this is exactly what you would

00:46:01

think it is.

00:46:02

We have our beliefs and we will try to find information that confirms those beliefs because

00:46:07

it's comfortable.

00:46:09

And if something challenges those beliefs, it's uncomfortable and we'll tend to avoid

00:46:14

it.

00:46:15

And if we're presented with something that is, in fact, very contradictory to what we

00:46:22

already believe, we'll somehow spin it with some crazy, ridiculous logic, even if it contradicts

00:46:29

some other part of our beliefs so that our entire structure doesn't have to fall down.

00:46:36

So don't do that.

00:46:39

Challenge your beliefs.

00:46:40

Yeah, a bubble of belief reinforces and protects existing beliefs by denying the possibility

00:46:48

of other beliefs.

00:46:49

And he gave a couple of examples of this, which again, said topical reading for the

00:46:53

win, talked about Nokia and Apple's iPhone, Blackberry also, I think fits this description.

00:47:02

That's what I thought of.

00:47:03

I thought of the innovators dilemma by Martin Christensen and then the Detroit automakers

00:47:09

versus Toyota.

00:47:12

And without that context, his brief description of these two things, I don't think hits home,

00:47:18

but because we had gone through the innovators dilemma, I was like, oh, I totally get this.

00:47:25

And that's the thing.

00:47:26

I don't know how to disconnect from where I am right now as I read this book, but I do

00:47:31

kind of question if this is like one of the first books that you pick up, is it as effective

00:47:37

as it was when you and I read it, because it's not a very long book.

00:47:41

And there are a lot of visuals here.

00:47:43

And there's a lot of blanks that we have already filled in because we have read some

00:47:48

other books prior to this.

00:47:50

I think it is very possible that you go through this and you have very surface level understanding

00:47:55

of some of these things if you understand them at all and you walk out of this book,

00:47:59

maybe with more questions than when you went into it.

00:48:02

Yeah, that was something I was trying to pay attention to this time because we've

00:48:07

mentioned that it occurred to me that we have mentioned that on the last few books where

00:48:13

we don't know if a certain part is actually that great because we have enough of this

00:48:19

syntopical background that informs us whenever we get to that.

00:48:24

So I was trying my best to pay attention to this as I went through this one.

00:48:30

And I have to say that whenever I was on a walk through the woods and stuff last night,

00:48:36

just to try to process some of this.

00:48:37

And one of the things I came to was like, I think this is actually a very good foundational

00:48:43

piece to start with.

00:48:45

I don't think there is the need for some other book, even the books that we didn't care for.

00:48:52

How many times have we now mentioned how to read a book, which we didn't write well,

00:48:56

and innovators below, which we did not like.

00:48:59

And yet they continue to inform the books that we read after them.

00:49:04

So I think that this is one that likely fits that bill of could be a good starter book

00:49:11

with this type of thing.

00:49:13

And you can pick the parts that are of interest to you or that are pain points for you and

00:49:18

then find the outcropping from that.

00:49:21

Sure.

00:49:22

The easy way to do that is to easily just go back through the bookworm log and listen

00:49:26

to all of them.

00:49:28

And then you'll be able to pick out which books you should read to fill in those gaps.

00:49:31

That's the best way that you could possibly do this.

00:49:34

I'm just going to say that.

00:49:35

All right.

00:49:36

So principle five, beliefs defend themselves.

00:49:39

One other thing on this, he mentions that there's two ways that people make sense of

00:49:43

new ideas.

00:49:44

They ask, is it internally coherent?

00:49:46

So basically does it line up with the other things that you think you know?

00:49:49

And then is it externally valid?

00:49:51

And I thought it was interesting that he said people rarely test ideas for external validity

00:49:56

when they don't have internal coherence.

00:49:58

So that means that there is a very strong possibility that something is externally valid, but you

00:50:06

never even test it because it is not internally coherent.

00:50:11

Yes.

00:50:12

So that point I think is kind of getting back to some of the stuff he was talking about

00:50:17

at the very beginning about you don't know what you think you know, but this is the point

00:50:23

where that really clicked for me.

00:50:25

Solid.

00:50:26

So principle six, beliefs are tied to identity.

00:50:30

I would say that's exactly what it sounds like.

00:50:33

You know, if you want to, what's the quote they have here at the beginning?

00:50:37

It's from Tom Robbins, if you want to change the world, change yourself.

00:50:40

So whenever you have beliefs, it's very easy for us to put ourselves in a spot where our

00:50:47

entire identity is tied to those.

00:50:51

And it's because like, if you have all of these judgments and theories and your attention

00:50:56

is focused on a certain part of your experience using that pyramid once more, right?

00:51:00

If you're doing all of that, you tend to put yourself at the top.

00:51:03

And what you're standing on is what you see as who you are.

00:51:08

Think about that whenever you talk to somebody, how many times do they refer to like if you

00:51:12

ask them, ask somebody who they are, they always talk about the things that they believe

00:51:16

in.

00:51:17

Yeah.

00:51:18

You ever notice that?

00:51:19

It's true.

00:51:20

Who you are, those are the things that you being who you are, think, but that doesn't necessarily

00:51:28

translate completely.

00:51:30

Yeah.

00:51:31

Those are the governing beliefs, which are tied to your identity and your feelings of

00:51:36

self-worth.

00:51:37

And he has a visual in this section of like the, the inverse tree roots, you know, so you

00:51:42

have your beliefs up at the top and then they all come back into like the few ideas at the

00:51:46

bottom.

00:51:47

And when you're governing beliefs, the ones that really define who you are.

00:51:52

And when you're governing beliefs get attacked, he says that that's like you are being attacked.

00:51:59

I also found this part interesting where he talks about the conspiracy theories.

00:52:06

Because you're governing beliefs being tied to your identity.

00:52:11

What do you do if you don't have control over your life?

00:52:18

If you feel that you are a victim and there are other people who are determining how happy,

00:52:29

successful, satisfied you are, then that's kind of the ideal environment for these conspiracy

00:52:39

theories to take off.

00:52:40

He says that these thrive in groups specifically.

00:52:43

So not just individuals, but groups because that bubble belief, they reinforce it, right?

00:52:47

I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

00:52:48

Everybody thinks this way, right?

00:52:50

But the, those conspiracy theories originate and they thrive in these cultures where people

00:52:58

don't feel like they have control of their lives.

00:53:00

And I use culture there because I was a biology major for a little while in college.

00:53:07

And I remember doing like the bacteria on the slides and stuff and they called that a

00:53:11

culture, right?

00:53:12

So it's like the environment where the bacteria can grow.

00:53:14

That's kind of how I view these conspiracy theories is like these bacteria that these

00:53:19

aren't good things, but they are thriving in these gross environments.

00:53:22

The Petri dish is thriving.

00:53:25

Exactly.

00:53:26

And the gross environment just happens to be the people that we've surrounded ourselves

00:53:29

with who are just reinforcing these negative, unhealthy beliefs, which cause us to be bitter

00:53:39

and resentful and bring our focus solely on ourselves and all of the things that are

00:53:44

going wrong in our own life.

00:53:46

And why doesn't anybody see this?

00:53:47

Doesn't anybody care?

00:53:48

Isn't anybody going to fix this?

00:53:50

That's a very helpless place to be.

00:53:52

It is that it is.

00:53:55

It's kind of sad.

00:53:56

I'm sitting here like processing some of what you're saying.

00:53:58

It's like it's just it's sad to watch whenever people are in that spot.

00:54:02

But yep, this is where we get to part two.

00:54:06

What do you do about it?

00:54:07

Well, this is going back just real quickly.

00:54:09

One of my action items in this section is to make a list of my own governing beliefs

00:54:12

because I think you can just let these things go and then you can find yourself in that

00:54:17

situation where you are identifying with the conspiracy theories.

00:54:21

And this is not like left or right.

00:54:24

He shares a lot of different examples of how it doesn't matter, Republican Democrat, whatever

00:54:28

side of the political spectrum you find yourself on, you're going to find the people on your

00:54:33

side who are going to say it's the other side's fault.

00:54:36

I again, like leaders eat last and all of that coming into play in this section for me.

00:54:41

But it would be better for you just to attack your own governing beliefs than to have them

00:54:46

attacked for you by somebody else eventually.

00:54:50

That day when other people step in and take that role.

00:54:55

So again, part two, what do you do about it?

00:54:58

There's nine practices that he recommends here.

00:55:04

Earlier on, you mentioned this is a system.

00:55:06

I didn't interpret this as a system.

00:55:09

Maybe that's just my viewpoint on it, but that might be because of the term.

00:55:13

Did you look at the action items at the end of the chapters?

00:55:17

It did.

00:55:18

Do you think that they were intended to be completed in a specific order?

00:55:22

No.

00:55:23

Okay.

00:55:24

That's the only thing I thought they did, and that's why I called it a system.

00:55:27

I think he tries to make them build on each other, but there's a lot of very separate

00:55:34

concepts here and I don't think you necessarily need to.

00:55:37

Yeah, I didn't do any of those exercises because they were going to take quite some

00:55:41

time to work through.

00:55:44

I just didn't want to commit to that at this point, which means I'll never do anything

00:55:49

with them.

00:55:51

But there's a lot that you could do there.

00:55:55

But again, because of what he titles these, these are practices.

00:56:01

And generally when I think of A practice, it doesn't necessarily require other practices

00:56:08

before it.

00:56:09

I mean, sometimes it does.

00:56:10

It's not universal.

00:56:11

But there's so many of these that I just didn't place it as needing to be done in a certain

00:56:16

order.

00:56:17

I don't know what that is.

00:56:18

Sure.

00:56:19

Maybe I kind of felt as I read through this that he's trying to get these, specifically

00:56:25

the principles to be built one on top of another.

00:56:30

He's layering these in specific ways.

00:56:33

So you can't really talk about beliefs creating a shared world until you talk about beliefs

00:56:38

being created.

00:56:39

Sure.

00:56:40

But you have to understand that pyramid before you can overlay the learning loop on top of

00:56:45

it.

00:56:47

And the practices are a little bit more disconnected than that.

00:56:51

But by the time I'm getting through part one, I'm feeling like I have to do these things

00:56:55

in a specific order.

00:56:56

So he doesn't tell me, okay, this part's different.

00:56:59

So I just kind of project that on part two as well.

00:57:01

Sure.

00:57:02

Yeah, I think at least my take on it, the principles are all standalone, the practices

00:57:07

are all standalone, but he was just a good writer and put him in a good order to where

00:57:11

it made sense.

00:57:12

Sure.

00:57:13

That's the way I took it.

00:57:15

But anyway, practice one.

00:57:18

Assume you are not objective.

00:57:19

So question for you.

00:57:21

How do you pronounce this two by two grid that he has in the section?

00:57:26

Do you remember?

00:57:28

I got to get there.

00:57:29

I got to get there was a word.

00:57:31

It's spelled J-O-H-A-R-I.

00:57:33

Oh, Johari.

00:57:36

It is actually Johari.

00:57:37

Is it?

00:57:38

I don't know why.

00:57:39

Well, I know why because the two names that are tied to it, but I pronounced it to Johari

00:57:43

and her and her and invented it.

00:57:45

Yeah.

00:57:46

The guys who invented this matrix, their names were Joe and Harry.

00:57:49

Okay.

00:57:50

So Joe, J-O-E, Harry, H-A-R-R-Y as you would expect.

00:57:54

But they call it the Joe Harry window, but they spelled it J-O-H-A-R-I in the book.

00:58:01

So that's for her.

00:58:04

Yes.

00:58:05

But I thought in my head, it was Johari.

00:58:09

Yeah, he explicitly calls that out.

00:58:12

And when he did, I was like, "Oh my gosh."

00:58:16

That can't be why they named it that.

00:58:19

And I feel like calling it out in this chapter kind of discredits it a little bit.

00:58:24

Hey, let's make a two by two bookworm grid and call it the Jameik breed grid.

00:58:32

Yup.

00:58:33

Yup.

00:58:34

And then, I think it's a little bit different.

00:58:37