Bookworm Transcripts

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So Joe do you have a new daily routine you'd like to walk us through not exactly but I have

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some plans for said routine because I can't put it in place yet and

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It's gonna be let's see when we record next I won't be able to have it in place yet

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but the time after that I should be able to okay and

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What I've what I've been working through because Becky and I have talked about it a little bit

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and I think what we're landing on is a lot of what we're currently doing actually works really really well and the pieces that are going to

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change

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Involve like going outside as a family and walking through woods and such and

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Exploring property and such when we normally wouldn't be able to do that. So those pieces are ones that we're

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Trying to figure out what we would like to have in place

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But not formally locking it in quite yet

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So I think in two books will at least have the beginnings of that experiment to talk through

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But right now really what it is is like I want to be able to go outside and walk

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Trails and such before breakfast have breakfast with the family and then if at all possible at some point in the day

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All of us are gonna go outside and do something in nature where we can because obviously with woods and

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Such right out the back door stuff like that gets real easy

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So we want to make that part of our daily routine

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I'm just not sure where that lands in the day because my schedule doesn't really allow

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Like lunchtime and such, but maybe we do it after I get off work

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I don't know what that is. So that's the piece that I think we're trying to to put in place

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Obviously the evening walk through the trails and such I'm gonna keep so yes

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That's what I know at the moment

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But it's still like we got to get moved before I can say sure this is what it's gonna be

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Yeah, I love that you measure time in books

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Books I'll have into books nude daily routines kind of like little kids like three big sleeps still my birthday

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Yes, yes, because the little sleeps don't count. Yes

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Also when you said at the beginning that you don't have a new daily routine

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But there's the thought of the daily routine that reminded me of you've got mail oh when I

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Always can never remember her character's name Meg Ryan

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her character in the movie is having dinner with at that point her boyfriend and

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There she walks out of the movie theater. They go grab dinner

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He admits that he likes somebody else and then she says the same thing and he asks her

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Is there somebody else and she's like no, but there's the thought of somebody else

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That's Joe with his

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So true the thought of a daily routine that is functional nice that that sounds glorious right now

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Cool, how about you you got a handful of things not just daily routine type stuff

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I do so I mentioned the I'll start with the easy one the do not disturb sign

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I actually have that it's on my door right now says please do not disturb big red X on the other side

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It has a green check mark welcome. Please knock before you would come in and

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It came in a two pack

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So I have one on each side of the door to remind myself as I'm going to leave the office that I need to turn it over

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On the other side

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To make sure that it's nice. It's accurate

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That's a good way to do that because in theory you could always look over there and see what's currently on the other side of the door

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Yeah, I don't turn them over at the same time usually

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But seeing it as I'm leaving my office as a reminder that yeah, there's one on the front that I should sure I should update basically

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so this will be the real test because

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There are piano lessons going on upstairs, so people have to be quiet upstairs usually when that happens

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It's go in the basement and be crazy

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But I'm recording in the basement

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So the red hue light at the top of the stairs is on and the red do not disturb

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Door hanger is in front so hopefully no one will come into my office while we are

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Recording this and this will be a lot easier for Toby to edit the last episode

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That last one was rough good job Toby

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Yeah, we're joking about that before we hit record

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He left in a few of the the drill noises because you had some comedic timing on some of them

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And he was pretty proud of that that edit but well done, sir. The other ones go for walks

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Have been doing this I mentioned I think last episode I joined a

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co-working space downtown Appleton and that's where I like to do my walks because there's this trail right by the river

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So I like going down there and walking that trail working from the co-working space

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It's kind of a different energy and it's nice to get out of the house every once in a while

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The other ones simplify my life. I have started this not much progress here

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I don't have anything I have cut out of my schedule

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I did sign up for

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And I'm blanking on this guy's name. We read the the book the minimalist home Joshua Becker. Yeah, he's got a uncluttered

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Course that I signed up for so Rachel and I are gonna go through that, but she doesn't know it yet

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I

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Know it shall be all about this though. This is kind of her her thing. I'm the hoarder in our relationship

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She's just like clean stuff out and I'm gonna throw away all this stuff and like what no you can't give that up

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So, yeah, I'm sure she'll be should be all about this

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one accidental

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follow-up thing that you made me do from a couple episodes ago you

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Inspired me to start walking around my house. Yep, so I did that and I noticed my house was disgusting

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So all day on Saturday last week. I power washed my house

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Dancer

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Now it is pristine and peaceful to set outside on our our deck again. I didn't even really

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Realize how nasty it was till I started walking around it every day and then I saw it. Yep now. It's clean

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So thank you. Yep. I think that's a win. That's I mean, that's a big piece of why I do it

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Like I want to know what changes over time like what is starting to grow in places? It shouldn't be yeah

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What am I yet to take care of? Yeah, so that that happened

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That Saturday, I had other plans for that Saturday, but that's okay. Sorry. I ruined it. I got done

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It's all right, so that's follow-up you ready to jump into today's book

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I think we better this could be a long one this could so this is the extended mind

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The power of thinking outside the brain by Annie Murphy Paul

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There are three parts to this book, but I'm not gonna say this is your standard productivity type book

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I feel like these if there was ever a book that justified its three parts. It's this one

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Yeah, there's I mean we of course rag on three part books, but there are a number of cases where it makes perfect sense and

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It should be a three-part book and it's

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validated in this one. Yeah, so there are nine chapters

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We're gonna try to go through them all I think because they're all relevant. They're all good

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There's big ideas and in all of them, but they're broken down three chapters per part part one is thinking with our bodies

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Part two is thinking with our surroundings part three is thinking with our relationships and then in the conclusion

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I'm not sure if you noticed this she has principles for mind extending and they are again broken into three parts and three

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principles they don't match up perfectly with these these parts like it's not the same blanket term title that she's

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Using but they align very well. So she has done tons of research and condensed it down very well

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Into a very approachable book on a very complicated topic. I would would argue

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I mean it it's a case where there's a lot of neuroscience and studies and research and stuff that is

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Talked about within this book. So having read a lot of books that involve neuroscience at this point

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We know that there's something about the number three and the human brain like we know that so it makes perfect

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Logic in this case that she is taking three parts three chapters per part and sticking with that because

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There's obviously like some research and science used in the layout and setup of the book itself

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Alongside the research has talked about within the content of that book. So

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Obviously, there's a lot of thought gone into this one. Yes, absolutely

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Let's start with actually the introduction. I just want to real briefly call out something here because

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You've heard probably our brain is like a computer our brain is like a muscle

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She makes the argument right at the beginning that our brain is like a magpie

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Yes, do you know what a magpie is or did you know what a magpie was before reading this book?

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Yeah, I had no idea obnoxious

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Okay, nuisance in some it's kind of like crows like they are like from the same

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What is that subspecies? I don't know what the technical is for that

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But they're from the same little family and tax on them. They're considered a nuisance bird. Okay. Yeah, I had I had no idea

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but magpies apparently are nuisance birds that build nests out of whatever they can find and

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The analogy she's making at the beginning here is that that's what our brains do

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they weave bits and pieces that they find into our

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trains of thought and

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So it's a very compelling argument right at the beginning for getting better at thinking outside of our our brains because there's all this

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Junk that you could could be building your nest with with your magpie brain

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If you're not careful and that we've talked about a lot of different times that there's more information that we have to deal with

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than ever before it comes at us faster, it's more specialized and

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It just makes sense that you would look outside your brain to what are the factors that are

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Impacting what is going on inside of your brain? I did not realize that the title of this book kind of comes from a

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Paper called the extended mind one of the people that inspired or wrote that paper is Andy Clark who in

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1997 left his computer on the train

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Realizing that oh no, I have left part of my brain on the train

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Which that is interesting to me 1997 the laptop, but as we'll probably talk about it some point here in this episode

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I immediately jumped to those connected note-taking apps like say obsidian

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and

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I think an argument could be made for

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pros versus cons with that but as it pertains to this book

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I think she would say that that's a completely valid approach to have something

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Whether it's an application a device a notebook index cards whatever if you

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analogs that'll cast in guy go for it

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But having some sort of scaffolding for thinking outside of your brain probably makes you a better thinker overall

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It's so fat and because I knew you were gonna make this connection like if no

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Coming from the time I saw the title of the book. It's like oh, okay. Well, guess what's coming up

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And I knew that two weeks ago and

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Yet as I went through it there were a lot of places where I

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Felt like she was arguing against that model. So that's that's my bias that was

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Coming out in the way that she sure put this together

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So we'll see how that turns out as we get to those specific points, but you're absolutely right like having something

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Outside of your mind is like a superpower. I will say at the beginning here

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This introduction part I probably thought this is gonna pop up all over the place now

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We've making all sorts of notes and points about connecting things inside of a graph view inside of obsidian

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I think there was one other spot where I I jotted something down

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Pertaining to that so she would probably say it's valuable

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But it's not the be all end all maybe that some people make it out to be

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Which I would like to think that is my approach

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Maybe that's not how it comes across when I talk about it because I do see the value in it

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But I also think it's one part of a larger system

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So this whole book has really got me thinking about the larger system of where do the ideas come from and how do they get managed?

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And yeah, I use obsidian for a good chunk of playing with those

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But there are lots of things that you can do to get better ideas even before you get to like the capture phase

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When you get into well, let's just jump into this first section here because thinking with our bodies

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This is one way that you can do that. I think there's a three chapters here. Let's go in order

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So first chapter is thinking with sensations

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the concept of interoception

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comes up here which is an awareness of the inner state of the body and

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Interoception leads perfectly into the whole concept of mindfulness meditation

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In fact, she flat out says that that increases interoceptive ability

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So this is where my first action item comes in

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So so the moment we get into the content of the book and we're past the introduction Mike has an action item

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All right action item that I don't like because it's popped up over and over again, and I

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Can't get it to stick so my action item literally says

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meditate for reals

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exclamation point

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With a Z. I hope with a Z

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Yeah, so

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This okay the reason this keeps coming up is every time I hear about it in a new context

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I feel like there's something else that I had not

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Realized about this that appears valuable to me the point that she makes in this chapter is

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Basically that your brain is pulling in all this information from all over the place

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I am recognizing through the action item of trying to simplify my life

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There are things that I'm involved with which if I was just gonna cut out all the negative stuff

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I'm I don't want to be in a situation where I feel a certain way anymore

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I would love to be able to do that, but I can't do that so I have I

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Recognize now like certain things coming at me that I don't want to stick and I think I let them stick

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Because I don't practice this mindfulness and you don't have to use a certain app for this this inner receptive awareness

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This is something where you just kind of recognize what you're feeling and why you kind of name it

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And that's how she kind of described this mindfulness meditation is like you see the things that are there for

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What they really are and that's where the the value comes from and I'm recognizing that I

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Hang on to stuff. I need to let it go and I'm hoping this will help me just kind of recognize

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Oh, that's there. Well now we can move on. This is I'm gonna make a weird connection here

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Let's let's go into Christian prayer. Okay, so a lot of times people will talk about how

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their daily prayer time is

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one of the most important parts of their day and it's not because of the like that yes

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It's because of the connection with with God and a higher power to go down that road

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But at the same time what they're saying is during that period when you're praying you have to

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Reflect and think about all the things that are going on in life and then either verbally or mentally

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Call out what's wrong? What's right?

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What is it you need and you have to?

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articulate that in some form or another so you're going through the process of thinking about your life or the lives of the people around you the

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People who matter to you and then putting a name or a term to

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either a

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good thing or a negative thing or a desire that you would like for yourself or them and

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By doing that you're able to then think about

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What is going on like it is that mindfulness process like you're able to term what's happening now?

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The whole letting it go part isn't connected to that

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technically

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but that's where the process of

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If you take meditation the way a lot of people do it

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You're trying to clear your mind and when thoughts come into your mind you're letting them go and then trying to keep a clear mind

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During that process that's not easy like the first time you do that you realize how many thousands of thoughts

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bump into your head like every ten seconds like it's just ridiculous and

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Trying to clear all of that is very very difficult

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but whenever you start the process and get used to

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Letting things out of your mind as they come in letting those thoughts go as they happen

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It then carries over into other areas like what she's talking about here

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It's like you're able to then see things that happen to you and let it go and then make a choice as to what you're going to do about that

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Without it impacting your mental state like that's essentially what you're

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Shooting for at least one side of it. There's a lot more to it of course, but that's one aspect of it

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I don't do this. I've done it in the past, but I

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There are other areas of this book

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We'll talk about that I think are part of this and are connected to this in some ways

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But I'm not gonna go there yet sure but I could see why you want to bring this up yet again

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Do we need to do like another whole book on meditation now? No, I don't think so

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But maybe if you want us to talk about it go vote for something

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I don't know 10% happier. Sure, but she she changed these things together in a way that makes a lot of sense for me

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she says that traditional thinking something happens and

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the brain chooses the appropriate emotion based on the thing that happens and then that

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influences what we do and that's wrong she says reality is that something happens and

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Then we act so we get to choose

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How we respond with our action and after that the brain puts the pieces together and fires the emotion

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So if I can recognize this thing is happening step one and this is what I'm going to do about it

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Maybe I don't have to let the emotions

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Run wild and then I have to try to get that that wild horse back inside the defense

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Sure, so that's that's the the new part of this that made sense to me is oh my influence meditation

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I recognize this thing happened and I choose not to get stressed out about it

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I activate maybe cognitive repraisal she talks about in this chapter where you're ascribing new meanings to actions

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So one example she gave is I'm feeling very nervous about

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Presentation I have to give well

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I could reframe that instead of nervousness as excitement and now that's a positive feeling and I don't dread that feeling anymore

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I don't think it's quite that simple

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But I like that idea. I bet it could be it could be yeah hard part of that though

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Like the the reframing part to me. That's the easy piece. Maybe it's hard for some

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But it's not gonna instantly change your mindset at least not the first time but over time it will

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But the hardest part about that is realizing that you're nervous

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Yeah, acknowledging that like that to me is the hard part like just being able to say this is what I'm feeling right now

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Like think about the name of this chapter thinking with sensations a lot of what she gets to like she shows some research about like how people

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Work could sense what was going on and they could measure that the person could sense

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Which deck of cards had positive rewards and which ones had negative rewards, but they could measure

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The sensations in your fingers

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Faster than you could articulate what was going on and that there even was a pattern your fingers were a pattern

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But you didn't like you couldn't express that

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So being able to express it is the hard part in this case. Yeah, I don't know what exactly to expect from this

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But this is right in the first chapter right so already I feel like I've got my money's worth from this book

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Well, let's move on to the next chapter because we got lots of them thinking with movement as soon as I read this title

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I thought of Joe Bueleg and in his walks around his property

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The basic idea here is that we think better when we're moving one thing that I liked from this section

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I think I sort of understood this before but she articulates everything really really well with lots of great stories and lots of great

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Science if you want to dig into all the research

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But fidgeting can help you think better and why is that I have always kind of been a fidgeter

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It drives some people crazy. I've kind of learned to control it

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So like my I'll just bounce my knee like on the chair underneath my desk

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No one will see that but I've done this for as long as I can remember and

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What that does when you are fidgeting she gave it a name that I didn't realize before it's embodied self regulation

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So I guess the big takeaway from this is you are

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controlling something in your environment you are forcing yourself to do low intensity movement

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Which increases your focus and your productivity and there are

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Cognitive benefits that are associated with that. I move all the time

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Drives people crazy. I have a you're talking about bouncing your knee and stuff. I have a it's a flippy chain is what it's called

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that I keep in my pocket at all times and

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This silly little thing I keep it in my pocket because it's small and it lays flat that way

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it doesn't look like some big massive something and

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whenever I'm

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Walking or it doesn't seem to matter like a lot of times. I've got that thing out or I have it in my pocket

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And I'm just you know flipping it over and such so I have that thing around at all times

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I've got what is it one two three four five six eight

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Different fidget toys sitting here on my desk

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And yeah, I'll have yep

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I've got one here

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I've like constantly playing with a pen like always got something in my fingers and

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like this is where ADHD actually came up a few times in this book which I was not expecting and

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she's referencing

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What is going on and why?

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ADHD people do certain things and she's spot-on

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with those so

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Kudos on that but one thing like thinking with movement she refers to people who would do walks

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doctors who would review

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Images while on a treadmill and they were more accurate and diagnosing things like there's a whole bunch

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Yeah, that goes on with this and

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It made me think about our middle daughter so Rose who is

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Kind of struggling with school stuff especially math and

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Seems to be fighting quite a few things with school and

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She has some things that she picks up on very quickly and other things

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It just overhead and it doesn't seem to register at all and it made me wonder about like maybe I should get her to go

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Go for a quick run before she comes back and does school or

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Take something with her and do it while she's walking out in the trails or something like I don't know what that is

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But getting her to move while she's doing something maybe that would help out with some of that helping her to retain that

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Those were some of the pieces I was thinking through so I do have an action item with this one

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I've just kind of walked through that with Becky and see you know, maybe there's something there that would help her

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With some of her school stuff, so I like that one of the things that stood out to me shares your

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Review yeah traditionally we've believed that we should use breaks to rest the body

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But that's actually wrong back to your action item and

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students who incorporated movement remembered

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76% of material compared to only 37% without was was one study that she she shared there and that makes a

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Lot of sense. I'm trying to figure out how I can do that more and like you said

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It's not just the knowledge work piece of this where my brain instantly went was

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If I could figure out how to have walking meetings, I feel like they would be much more effective

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Not quite sure how to do that yet because every time I've tried it

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I'm walking around some someplace and then like if I were to

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As I do my walks around downtown if I were to do that in a meeting people would you like the trucks on the street and stuff

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Like that as I'm getting to the path and oh, what was that?

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You know, it's distracting. You just you don't want to don't want to put people in that that situation

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So I don't have an answer to that yet

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But that's where I'm thinking the other thing that I really liked about this is she flat out calls out

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Taking a break to check news or social media. That's the worst thing that you can do

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Because that engages the brain region the same brain regions and uses the same mental capacity that you

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Use when you're doing your your cognitive work. So it's not really a break at all

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So don't do that don't do that

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But I have done that also toxic so stop

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Oh, yes, stay off the news nothing good happens in the news. Yeah, it's not news for me

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I think I have traditionally used those breaks as the time that I would check Twitter

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Which is social media so maybe you got to figure out a different way to to do that

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I don't know. I'm still thinking that over I don't have an action

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I'm associated with that specifically, but the next chapter is thinking with gesture

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Essentially talk with your hands

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2019 studies showed that company founders who master gestures were 12% more likely to get funding which is kind of interesting

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I thought that was fascinating. Oh, if I move my hands around and squat up and down while I'm talking

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Hey, guess what I'll get more money. Yeah, exactly. It's not a huge percentage

00:27:08

So kind of it's like well, maybe they're just better

00:27:12

Communicators, maybe there's other aspects of communication that they're better at but I don't think that's really the case

00:27:19

I think if you gestures are obviously a big part of communication. Yeah, maybe there's a little bit of bleed over but I

00:27:26

Don't know I've I've for my first thought was to kind of discount that statistic and then more I thought about it

00:27:32

Like no it it's valid and then also

00:27:35

12% doesn't seem like a lot but when you're talking about whether you're going to get millions of dollars of funding or not

00:27:42

That's you're gonna do everything in your power to to make sure that that the chips fall in your favor

00:27:48

so this is

00:27:50

Not an insignificant lever that you could pull yeah

00:27:54

I could get ten million dollars or eleven million dollars if I move my hands around a lot like that's what we're talking about so

00:27:59

Move your hands around a lot. That's what we're saying. Yeah

00:28:04

But it's not just like it's not simply

00:28:07

Move around like it's it's intentional gesturing like whenever you're talking about something true really wide spread your arms out

00:28:15

when you're talking about something tall put your hand up above your head like you have these things that you can do and

00:28:20

It does help even with kids like if you're able to talk through things with kids and use gestures that make sense to them

00:28:28

Like it can help them as well. It's just a social thing

00:28:32

But at the same time it does help you process your own thoughts better as well

00:28:38

So there's that piece of it too. So use gestures. That's that's what I got from this

00:28:44

I don't really know how to take that as an action item, but don't sit on your hands

00:28:49

Well one way that you could apply it would be

00:28:53

For all of the video stuff that you do and I'm talking to the general you at this point not you specifically Joe Buleg

00:29:01

But if you do stuff on video make sure that you incorporate

00:29:04

some sort of gestures into

00:29:07

Your video communication. I was forced to do this a couple years ago when I started doing some of the talking head videos for the sweet setup

00:29:16

With like the mastering mind maps course that we put together and obviously the obsidian one the whole PKM section

00:29:23

I shot that here in my office and so I remember the first time that I did it

00:29:28

I felt really really awkward

00:29:30

Recording it at in Kansas City and Sean and Isaac are there watching me do it

00:29:38

And I feel like they're just watching me make a fool of myself with my hands because my gestures aren't really lining up

00:29:43

It was really it kind of threw me from the from what I was trying to

00:29:50

Present off of the the scripts and so we had to do it a couple of times

00:29:55

But it really wasn't that big a deal. I remember Isaac and Sean were kind of impressed because we were able to get through it

00:30:03

basically two takes of each script and we had set aside like four hours student we got it done in two and

00:30:09

I was thinking about that afterwards and I made the connection that the gestures

00:30:16

Maybe contributed to me being able to read off of the scripts

00:30:22

Effectively and obviously the scripts. I'm writing them myself. So it's not somebody just feeding me something. This is

00:30:29

Stuff that I've written in the first place

00:30:31

I've internalized these these concepts and kind of what I've discovered is at the scripts being on the teleprompter

00:30:37

That allows me to ad lib a little bit because I know what is coming

00:30:41

But I have been trying to get better with my gestures as I do each of these courses on video

00:30:48

And I feel like I am getting better and I can get through most of those scripts now in a single take

00:30:53

Nice and so when she says people who gesture as they teach on videos speak more fluently and articulately and make less mistakes

00:31:01

I was like, oh

00:31:02

That's kind of what happened

00:31:04

Yeah, when you're doing it on screen though, like you also have to keep in mind

00:31:09

Like how wide the camera can see it's true. Yep, that's why

00:31:14

So many of us make sure there's like a spot monitor or something where we can see ourselves

00:31:18

Because if I'm spreading my hands out and trying to show something wide

00:31:22

Like if you ever see me do that on screen

00:31:24

You see me stop with my hands at the edge of the screen

00:31:27

Yeah

00:31:27

If I were to do it and we were in person and having a conversation my arms are gonna go full length

00:31:31

But you can't see my hands when I do that on screen because the camera is so close

00:31:36

So there's like the whole awareness of what the other person can see on screen

00:31:41

That's why you need to be able to see yourself on the screen when you're doing this

00:31:44

That's my vote some people say you should never watch yourself like no that is wrong. You should always see yourself

00:31:49

I agree with that. Yeah, cool. The next section

00:31:54

here is

00:31:56

Part two thinking with our surroundings the first chapter in this section is thinking with

00:32:02

natural spaces

00:32:04

Basically get out in nature and you'll think better

00:32:08

Yeah, some startling statistics in here by the way on average

00:32:11

We only spend seven percent of our time outside most Americans report spending

00:32:17

less than five hours outside per week 60 percent of Americans and

00:32:22

Even though when you get out in nature there is more information

00:32:28

That is being thrown at you she makes the argument in this chapter that your brain is built to handle that type of

00:32:36

Information it's there's two different kinds of attention

00:32:39

There's passive attention and then there's voluntary attention

00:32:42

So the passive attention that you give the effortless stuff the floats from topic to topic like that's the that's the kind that's evoked

00:32:49

By nature and the voluntary attention. This is the one that takes effort

00:32:52

It has to constantly be directed and the example she gives here is like navigating an urban environment

00:32:57

So if we get out of nature we can make this a lot easier on ourselves

00:33:03

Do I really need to say anything here you could probably guess what I'm gonna say there's lots of different things that she suggests here from

00:33:10

Having windows to green plants in your office

00:33:14

So I don't know is there anything specific that

00:33:18

You wanted to do about this or is just going outside for your walks every day. That's enough for you

00:33:26

I think well given how much time I'm able to spend out

00:33:30

I mean even simple things like I need to go molyard like well that means I'm gonna be outside for three hours if I'm going to

00:33:38

Go feed the cats well guess what I'm going outside and it's gonna take me 15 minutes to do that because of the distance to walk to and from

00:33:46

The places so like me trying to make sure I have extra time to go outside like I don't think that's gonna be necessary

00:33:53

Especially after we move but something that this

00:33:57

Had me like processing and I don't know if I've worked through this on bookworm before but the

00:34:02

The history that I have with being outside is that like I grew up in areas where there were thousands of acres

00:34:09

around us there were miles of

00:34:12

Timber and all sorts of nature that was around us. It was not built up at all as my father-in-law

00:34:19

affectionately says it's not the end of the world, but you can see it from there and

00:34:23

It's it's always out there, but that's what I grew up with well

00:34:28

Then ended up moving up near the Twin Cities and working in corporate over the span of a few years after that and

00:34:34

I didn't realize it until a couple years into that that my stress levels were slowly ratcheting up over time and

00:34:43

Even Becky has commented that even lately since being able to work on a house and being outside

00:34:52

regularly those stress levels have been coming down quickly despite the fact that we're building a massive remodel on a very tight time frame so

00:35:00

It doesn't make sense, but yet it seems to make sense now. I can't give you

00:35:07

All of the why behind that is to what causes that other than

00:35:12

something to do with the background noise and

00:35:15

What's around us and built structures not allowing your brain to calm down like there's something along the way?

00:35:22

Those lines which she tries to get into somewhat here, but I I think I can put a lot of pieces together

00:35:29

But there's not like a this is what causes that

00:35:32

Scenario so anyway go outside. That's what I continually say

00:35:37

Yeah, there is a whole aspect of this

00:35:40

I think if you and I are in different situations, maybe there's a different conversation that we have about this about

00:35:47

I'm gonna bring some plants to my cubicle or something

00:35:49

Yeah, because she does kind of talk about that. She's got this whole term bio

00:35:54

Phyllic design which is incorporating nature into homeschools and workplaces

00:35:58

But I can get outside. I don't live out in the country as much as you do

00:36:05

But even so in my suburban neighborhood the trail that I go for a run-on

00:36:11

It goes out into the country. There's like this tree bridge that you go under and as it's just starting to

00:36:19

get to fall some of the leaves are starting to turn it's my favorite spot and

00:36:25

I'm out there multiple times a week

00:36:29

So I don't have to go very far to to get to it

00:36:32

But I don't think that's true for for everybody. No, no not at all. I wish it was. Yeah

00:36:37

Yeah, me too, but that does kind of lead into the next chapter chapter five is thinking with built spaces

00:36:43

So this is kind of where she's making the case that we should pay attention to the space that we live and work and

00:36:52

At the beginning she says that our culture doesn't hold our

00:36:56

environment in high regard and thoughtful design takes time and money so

00:37:04

People just kind of disregard it and all just make it work

00:37:08

Plus I don't want to work with an architect or designer because I know somebody who was an architect or designer and they were hard to work with

00:37:15

So I'm just gonna avoid that whole thing not me personally like that's the argument. She's saying

00:37:19

She actually says architects and designers themselves are part of the problem with this

00:37:23

Nice good job team, but I like this chapter. I think the easy summation of this is

00:37:33

think about

00:37:35

your environment think about

00:37:37

the pictures that you hang on the wall in your office, which I didn't kind of realize I was doing this as I

00:37:45

Finished off this office where I'm recording this right now

00:37:48

This is in the basement of my house, but I kind of intentionally chose every single aspect of this the colors

00:37:56

I really like the specific pictures that are hanging on the wall. I've got all the fractures of the projects that I've

00:38:03

Done hanging there. I've got the the pen case which we've talked about that before like the pens that are in there

00:38:09

The majority of them are associated with me shipping a project or doing something and that's a celebration

00:38:16

So I can look at that kind of like a trophy case

00:38:19

most of the books on the bookshelf behind me are books that we have read so again a little bit of a trophy case and

00:38:27

it makes

00:38:30

Entering into this space and doing the work here a lot easier

00:38:36

But I never really thought about why I was doing all that stuff is just oh, I like this. I'm gonna put it here

00:38:41

Yeah, it's it's a big deal

00:38:43

I know whenever you're putting together what that space is and and knowing how much space you have

00:38:49

For that she gets into that one quite a bit like the whole

00:38:53

Offices with walls into open plan like that's a big part of this

00:38:58

This chapter having worked in both. I know that I don't really like either for a variety of reasons and

00:39:05

end up with a weird like big

00:39:08

Office that people sometimes come in and work inside here. I don't know. It's kind of weird, but one of the things that

00:39:15

And this was a very minor point in this chapter and I don't know why it stood out to me

00:39:21

But there was a point she made that music

00:39:24

Imperes performance. Yeah, and like this is a known right if you're listening to rock music generally

00:39:31

There's so much going on with it that it makes it hard for you to focus on especially creative work

00:39:34

So it's generally not recommended. This is why there are things like brain.fm that will allow you to do like the background

00:39:44

noises that aren't actually

00:39:46

Music per se there are ways to do this but

00:39:51

Generally noise in your headphones is not what you want and

00:39:56

I use noise kind of intentionally there instead of music, but I think that there's

00:40:01

Maybe something to this I I have for a long time

00:40:05

Been someone who whenever I get into a vehicle especially if I'm borrowing a vehicle from somebody and they have the radio on that my instinct

00:40:12

Is it turn it off? I I don't know for years. I have just whenever I go somewhere. I drive in silence all the time

00:40:19

That's what I do drives people crazy and I have had people hop in my car to go somewhere and they're like

00:40:26

What where does your radio not work like oh it works? I think but I don't ever turn it on

00:40:33

So they'll ask me this question sometimes so some people are uncomfortable with that

00:40:38

I have found but as an uber or Lyft driver would would be a

00:40:43

entertaining

00:40:46

An entertaining interaction for sure

00:40:48

It's true just silent in the car anyway, that's what I do but built spaces

00:40:56

Yes, I mean there are a lot of ways that you can put together a workspace or an office and such

00:41:00

You know there's it in the past whenever I worked corporate at one point

00:41:05

They had me on a desk that was about three and a half feet wide

00:41:08

That was all the space I had and then right next to me was somebody else with their three and a half feet

00:41:13

And on the other side it was somebody else with their three and a half feet. It's like come on. That would be miserable. Yeah

00:41:19

So many things that go wrong with that

00:41:23

I mean I understand the concept where like we can collaborate and we can work on things together

00:41:28

It's like yes at times but most of the time. I'm not doing that so

00:41:34

Anyway, right it's not universal shouldn't be I'm glad you brought up walls because she talks about those in this chapter

00:41:42

But they're not always a bad thing

00:41:44

They she says they were designed to protect us from the cognitive load of having to keep track of the activities of strangers

00:41:53

and I

00:41:55

See this as I read that I was thinking back to

00:41:59

Working at the the co-working space

00:42:01

Fortunately the one that I joined there's a couple people who have private offices

00:42:05

There's one other person who works from there sometimes as the most of the time

00:42:10

I have the place to myself

00:42:12

Nice, but when I am there I

00:42:16

Recognize that I'm paying attention to what he's doing

00:42:20

We don't have like call booze that you can pop in when you take a call

00:42:25

and it's I knew that going into it, but there's like you go up in the front and

00:42:29

Pop in your headphones and you take a call and that's kind of the expectations of the space like that's accepted

00:42:37

Behavior it's part of the culture of the the space and noise levels yadda yadda

00:42:42

Every space has their their own way of functioning, but this is not like a

00:42:46

Academic library where you're expected to work in silence. I knew that going into it

00:42:51

But I still was kind of surprised how he's taking a call. I'm writing an article pretty soon

00:42:56

I'm paying attention to his call

00:42:58

Not that I'm trying to eavesdrop not that I'm even interested in what's going on

00:43:03

But that's where my attention and focus goes and so she kind of explained why that is in this chapter

00:43:09

We're kind of naturally drawn to those

00:43:11

conversational elements the whole social aspect instead of the

00:43:16

The focused work that we're trying to try to get done, but walls can be used

00:43:22

That they can be deployed tactically. Let's say so from my office here

00:43:28

I can't because I don't have any windows. I don't have any natural light going back to the previous chapter

00:43:34

There's nothing nature related in my office

00:43:38

So I'm not gonna come sit here work here for

00:43:42

10 hours in a day

00:43:45

I'm gonna come in here for a short bursts and do focused work and walls can boost creativity by providing privacy and

00:43:54

They let you kind of experiment unobserved. So I can do that here

00:43:59

No one is peeking in because there's literally no way to get in other than the door that is shut that I'm looking at right now

00:44:05

But I can't stay here forever either

00:44:09

So I don't know that as I read this this chapter. I kind of realized the ideal application

00:44:16

For me is use this space probably every day, but probably not all day

00:44:22

And so if I'm not gonna be here all day, where am I going?

00:44:27

I'm not doing work in the rest of the house where the rest of my family is homeschooling

00:44:32

It just doesn't work. So that was kind of an unintended

00:44:37

motivation

00:44:39

Kind of rationalizing after the fact here

00:44:41

I guess as I'm reading this book for why I felt so good about getting out of the house and going downtown

00:44:47

The corking space because I hadn't been doing that for like a year and a half

00:44:52

This is where I worked and I just made it work

00:44:55

And there's only recently that I kind of was thinking like well

00:44:57

What's the best version of this and kind of landed on a combination?

00:45:03

Yeah, the wall thing is I think super interesting because of the way that it's brought up and talked about in that

00:45:12

walls

00:45:13

Allow you to have that private space and the lack of walls allow you to

00:45:17

socialize and connect with other people and

00:45:20

You can see that I'll have to like when we get done with our remodel in the house

00:45:24

I had to take a bunch of good pictures and and

00:45:27

share those because a lot of what we've done is in the community spaces the family room

00:45:34

Kitchen dining kind of living slash piano room is either opened up doorways or taken walls out entirely

00:45:41

So that those are one massive like you can see almost that entire first level save the bathroom

00:45:46

You can see them all from one spot and from just about any other spot in that house

00:45:53

But the moment you go upstairs there are walls all over the place

00:45:58

Because you need that individual private space for a bedroom. Yeah now

00:46:04

I didn't realize that that's kind of the path we were headed down

00:46:08

until I read this chapter and realized oh, yeah

00:46:12

well, we want to be able to socialize and collaborate and talk to each other as a family most of the time

00:46:18

But we still need to be able to go to a private space when needed and you can see that in the way that

00:46:24

We're setting up like the dining kitchen area because like that's kind of where the homeschool stuff will happen

00:46:30

But yet we're setting up a desk for each of the girls in the bedrooms upstairs that way they are able to

00:46:37

Do the communal collaborative homeschool thing together and then go off to their own respective spaces to do their

00:46:44

Work I didn't even it didn't even occur to me that we had designed it that way

00:46:48

It's just this is kind of what is needed given our kids and our family. Yeah, and yet I feel like we've designed that really well just

00:46:55

I'll be it unintentional. Yeah, that's the cool thing about this book. I think is

00:47:01

It's not the first in this

00:47:04

Topic area that we have read so we've kind of been making moves in this direction

00:47:09

But this book does a great job of pointing out why that thing you tried seems to be working. Yeah

00:47:16

Yeah, it creates the motivation to stick with it. It's kind of going back to

00:47:20

Chapter one right being able to articulate what's going on. Yeah, like noticing those sensations and being able to put words to it

00:47:28

Like there are things that just kind of feel right and we we just kind of do and then all of a sudden somebody gives you the terms

00:47:34

For it's like oh

00:47:35

That's why I love blue

00:47:37

Yep, all right next chapter chapter six is

00:47:42

thinking with the space of ideas and

00:47:46

This is the one where we're gonna talk about connected notes

00:47:50

Let's start by talking about Darwin before you do that

00:47:54

I just want to point out this is the one and only chapter in this entire book where this can be put together and like that

00:48:02

You could legitimately bring this topic up and I thought this was what most of the book was gonna be about yeah

00:48:08

Me too, maybe that's just me

00:48:09

I thought this one chapter was gonna be like the bulk of the whole book and yet we have this one little tiny

00:48:15

I don't want to say tiny, but this one little piece of it. Anyway, that said I just needed to get that out there

00:48:21

You are correct and I had the thought after reading this chapter

00:48:25

Maybe I should go into that bibliography and just start downloading some research reports because I do

00:48:31

Want to know more about this particular spot, but even in this like the thinking with the space of ideas

00:48:38

This isn't all

00:48:41

connected notes, but I do want to talk about Darwin because he existed long before obsidian and he said acquire the habit of writing very

00:48:49

Copious notes not all for publication, but as a guide for yourself and I feel like that is a great summary of PKM in general

00:48:58

one of the things that I

00:49:00

Learned about PKM when I was doing the research for the obsidian course

00:49:04

Was that there has to be an output for personal knowledge management?

00:49:08

And when I say personal knowledge management most people think of I dump all these notes inside of obsidian or Rome

00:49:14

And then I make the connections and I see a graph view that is an aspect of personal knowledge management

00:49:19

But your calendar is personal knowledge management knowledge of the appointments that you have today your task manager is personal knowledge management

00:49:28

Knowledge of the things that you need to get done

00:49:30

So there's a whole bunch of different aspects of this that pertain to you thinking about what you should be doing at any given moment

00:49:39

and then the other aspect of that with the

00:49:42

Extracting maximum value from your ideas

00:49:45

This is the part that is fascinating to me and one of the elements of that I discovered is you have to have an output

00:49:51

It doesn't mean it has to be a video that you make a podcast you record or a blog post that you publish

00:49:58

It means that you have to take the information that you receive and

00:50:02

Synthesize it somehow put your own stamp on it

00:50:05

Which is why bookworm is so awesome because we read these books and we can't just say oh well on page whatever

00:50:12

They said this we mentioned that occasionally because we want to riff off of some of the points that they they make

00:50:19

I had somebody asked me one time like can you do you have to do anything?

00:50:25

Like copyright wise for bookworm and it caught me off guard like why would we have to oh because we're talking about the books

00:50:32

Well, we don't really talk about them like summarizing them for somebody sort of like a blinkest sort of a deal

00:50:39

We're engaging in conversation about the ideas that they present and so

00:50:44

99% of the material is our own

00:50:48

Right or critiquing theirs. Yes. Yes, and that that thought never even

00:50:54

Never even occurred to me. So TLD are bringing this back

00:50:59

I would encourage anybody who is reading books listening to podcasts whatever you're taking notes in some way shape or form

00:51:06

Don't just collect the points that somebody else is saying force yourself to think about what this means for you

00:51:12

And then even if the only output is you write an opinion

00:51:15

Summary about what what you have just consumed information wise. That's enough

00:51:21

I can't even tell you the number of times I've gone into one of those MOC notes

00:51:25

And I've collected all the bits and pieces and I'm tossing them around

00:51:28

What does this mean and the moment that I force myself to start typing on the keyboard?

00:51:34

The I crystallized my thoughts about the topic at hand

00:51:39

I remember something you said from a bookworm episode a long time ago, and I don't remember what it was from but thoughts

00:51:44

Disentangle themselves through lips and pencil tips. Yep, clicky keyboards - turns out

00:51:50

I

00:51:52

I'm not sure I would go quite that far. Maybe it would maybe it does I suppose you're externalizing

00:51:58

You're thinking I I know and I knew whenever I saw the space of ideas is the chapter title

00:52:04

I knew this is where you were gonna go with this and

00:52:06

Yet as I was processing this chapter and reading through it

00:52:11

It of course is the process of thinking externally and you know trying to

00:52:16

Put your thoughts together in some form outside of your brain

00:52:20

and

00:52:21

It does go beyond that like she she does dive into

00:52:25

What is the environment for developing ideas as well like she does kind of go into that but I?

00:52:32

wasn't certain because some of the stories and ideas that she shares here involve a lot of

00:52:39

again externalizing your thinking but not on a computer like a lot of those were whiteboards and post-its and

00:52:48

Index cards like that concept was a lot of what was

00:52:51

referred to writing in a notebook like the process of physical movement was a part of those

00:52:57

Going back to chapter two like thinking with movement that piece came up quite a bit here

00:53:03

I don't think it was necessarily intentional. Maybe it was but it did come up quite a bit

00:53:07

So it just kind of made me ask the question

00:53:10

I don't think she would say this but it made me ask if screens count as

00:53:16

part of that space for ideas and

00:53:18

Partially I say that because you can't always see it all at once

00:53:24

unless you have lots of big screens and you have views that allow you to see tons of things all at once and

00:53:30

I'm not saying that that's necessarily required. Obviously, I'm gonna be the skeptic coming at this particular piece

00:53:38

You could see that one coming a mile away

00:53:40

But this is just a thing that it makes me wonder about because I don't do what you're talking about Mike

00:53:47

I spend most of my time processing those things

00:53:49

mentally or

00:53:51

Talking to myself as I'm walking outside like those are the places that I do that type of

00:53:57

connection and

00:54:00

Don't write out my thoughts in

00:54:02

Something like obsidian just because I don't have the time to do that

00:54:08

Especially right now sure if I tried to write out all my thoughts on how I wanted to do things in the house

00:54:13

Like I would spend just as much time typing out my thoughts on how I wanted to do it on the house as opposed to actually doing it

00:54:18

Or trying a few things so I'm not gonna do that it takes too long

00:54:22

so I

00:54:23

applaud the people who have the time to do that and

00:54:26

You know generally it helps people and they talk about the benefits of it

00:54:30

I just don't see that personally because

00:54:35

Obviously I want to be able to see things physically and move them around physically in a lot of cases

00:54:39

Not just clicking a mouse and moving a file around but to me that doesn't seem to equate. Yes. Okay. I'll get off the soap box now

00:54:47

Well, let me respond by sharing two two things number one. I have an action item to think on paper

00:54:54

What so there is are you okay? Yeah, there is definitely an element of truth to what you are talking about

00:55:04

however, the second thing I will say is that there is a

00:55:09

Point on my outline here big

00:55:12

Key idea from what you talked about in this chapter of concept mapping a concept map is visual

00:55:19

representation of facts and ideas and of the relationships between them and yes a concept map could be a

00:55:28

Graph of all those little dots and you could have them color-coded how they link together

00:55:34

but the thing that stood out to me with concept mapping is

00:55:38

What you were talking about taking those things and moving them around the absolute?

00:55:45

Best way I have found to do that the most delightful way

00:55:49

I know is creating a mind map on an iPad and

00:55:54

dragging the nodes around with my finger not my apple pencil of a dude that that sometimes too being able to physically touch the

00:56:02

Idea and move it somewhere else and have it snap into place in a different section of the mind map that is I

00:56:10

Think a very

00:56:12

valid approach to doing this as we are recording this I am waiting for my iPad mini to arrive I

00:56:19

Am so excited about this iPad mini specifically because it's the size of an a5 notebook

00:56:25

My plan is whenever I go anywhere. I'm grabbing my notebook and I'm grabbing my iPad mini

00:56:31

And I don't know yet

00:56:35

How that is going to work?

00:56:37

But that is the dream is that I've got both the analog and the digital and I can use the right tool in the right way

00:56:44

But I think both of them can be used to as you talk about in this chapter think with the space of ideas effectively now can I?

00:56:52

marry a whole bunch of things that I've said and talked about in the past because this chapter made me think about this

00:56:58

Especially since I read this after the apple event. Okay, because I don't own an iPad and

00:57:05

in my world I have never had a legitimate use case for an

00:57:13

iPad however

00:57:15

the mini that you're talking about with the speed that comes with it and

00:57:19

being able to touch and move things around if there's there's one thing that

00:57:26

Would change a lot of this if I could physically write in obsidian and

00:57:32

Interconnect those notes in obsidian that I have handwritten that would change the game that that would change a

00:57:41

Lot of things because then it allows me to physically move and touch and feel

00:57:46

Screen piece of glass, but the representation there being moving those ideas around yeah that I could see

00:57:53

But that feature set doesn't exist yet yet. I think we're close

00:57:58

I mean a lot of those dots are very close to being connected

00:58:02

but we're not there yet and

00:58:04

once that piece is put together once I can write without any lag and

00:58:08

Once I'm able to somehow take those handwritten notes and then do the interconnected piece

00:58:14

Yeah, now we've got a different conversation because that becomes a different feature set that we don't have

00:58:19

Currently and you're able to marry up a lot of what I tend to promote with

00:58:24

pen and paper setups

00:58:26

With the interconnectedness stuff that you're talking about with obsidian like we start to put those two together now

00:58:32

We got a different level of thinking that's possible. Yep. That's what I'm waiting on

00:58:38

But it doesn't exist thus Joe doesn't have an iPad on order

00:58:41

Yeah, I think it I think it's moving in that direction

00:58:45

And there will be a point in the near future where you're able to do that

00:58:49

I mean some of that stuff is it exists just not in obsidian

00:58:54

Specifically like the scribble feature you can write in apps have it converted into text

00:59:00

Why can't obsidian do that it's a matter of time. It's a system mobile feature

00:59:04

They'll they'll add that yep

00:59:05

There are plugins in obsidian to do what I was talking about with the mind maps where you can write something down

00:59:10

It's a node now you can drag that to a different spot and the mind map updates

00:59:15

So it's not super elegant, but I think we're gonna we're gonna get there like you when I was

00:59:22

When I was thinking about the the iPad

00:59:26

I kind of felt like there doesn't exist a spot for the iPad in my

00:59:31

day-to-day workflow

00:59:33

Which is kind of bizarre to me because I use it three times a week for sketch notes

00:59:39

Like I have a whole series of videos that I created on my my website

00:59:43

Which are these sermon sketch notes?

00:59:44

So I have a legit use case for it yet

00:59:47

I don't think about that because that's kind of the only time that this is the right device for what I want to do

00:59:54

Yeah, it's not a great computer for typing

00:59:58

I have that keyboard folio case on my 11 inch iPad Pro, but I never want to use that keyboard

01:00:03

So I never want to write with it. I never want to do any of the other things that I do on my Mac with it

01:00:08

It's literally just the analog stuff. It's the the sketch notes and so I

01:00:13

wrote an article for the screencast online magazine

01:00:16

Which is gonna be out for next month of the different ways that I am excited about this smaller form factor

01:00:23

I feel this is the thing that's gonna make this click for me

01:00:27

When I'm doing research for a podcast when I'm working on the outline for bookworm stuff like that

01:00:34

This is the perfect form factor where it's small enough

01:00:38

I can just take this and sit on the couch and do it and it's gonna be better than doing it on my phone

01:00:42

Which is what I did today for the bookworm outline

01:00:45

So I tend to do this sort of stuff on the go, but the iPad is just too big

01:00:50

It's too heavy. It's too clunky even at the 11 inch size for me to want to use it frequently

01:00:56

But that small a5 notebook size

01:00:59

I love that and I'm excited about the the different hybrid analog. Maybe we'll we'll call that

01:01:07

I've got my my hybrid bullet journal, which is not a bullet journal. I've got my hybrid iPad which I'm not gonna use like an iPad

01:01:14

I'm just one of these these weird birds, I guess

01:01:19

But I do like the the idea of being able to use the Apple pencil with that and kind of what you're talking about with obsidian

01:01:26

That is the the dream for me as well

01:01:28

I think if if that becomes a thing like I could I could see doing my entire

01:01:34

bullet journal setup in an iPad mini like I could totally see that but again you have to let me

01:01:42

connect things like connect my handwritten notes somehow and it has to be clean and

01:01:48

Don't over complicate it like everybody wants to over complicate it

01:01:52

Like just make it simple and let me run with that if that exists already

01:01:56

Somebody please reach out to me on Twitter or something and let me know but it doesn't have to be in obsidian

01:02:04

Like I'm gonna want you know me. I'm gonna want the image files or text files

01:02:08

And I'm gonna want access to that

01:02:11

But if there's something like that exists like I will have an iPad on order very quickly

01:02:18

Cool cool. Let's move on to the last part here part three thinking with our relationships and the first

01:02:25

chapter in here is chapter seven thinking with experts this is basically a case for

01:02:32

getting ideas from people who know a bunch of stuff and

01:02:37

There are some interesting examples here of

01:02:40

Imitators which kind of harkens back to the innovators dilemma by Clayton Christensen

01:02:47

person who's first is usually not the successful one. It's the imitator and

01:02:51

There's a statistic here that imitators cost is typically about 60 to 75% of the

01:02:57

innovators cost so it costs them less and they're able to learn from the mistakes and things like that but the thing that I

01:03:04

thought about with this is

01:03:07

You're thinking with experts so just that definition if I'm going to apply this and think with experts

01:03:14

I need to surround myself with people who know more than I do and

01:03:18

I'm going to get on my soapbox for a moment here and make the case that you should be reading more books I

01:03:25

Was thinking back about the last several years and

01:03:32

how I have grown and a

01:03:36

large percentage of that personal growth I can attribute to this podcast and forcing myself to sit down and read the books even the

01:03:44

Ones that didn't really want to read but I think just the ability that we have to

01:03:50

Allow someone to speak into our life for

01:03:54

$20 in Amazon will get it here by tomorrow

01:03:57

People don't realize how much value there is in that and it kind of is shocking to me as I was thinking about

01:04:04

I'm thinking about people that I know who if I go to a conference and some big name person is there

01:04:12

They want an audience with that person they'll do anything they can to get a couple of minutes alone with this

01:04:19

expert and ask a question

01:04:21

Because they might get the answer

01:04:24

But that person has probably also written a book and given you the answer you just have to learn how to look for it

01:04:31

and

01:04:33

Yeah, I just it makes me sad to think about how

01:04:38

There's so many people and I'll put myself in this category to where we don't know what we don't know and the answer

01:04:45

Already exists and if we would just access the information that is available to us

01:04:50

We don't even have to spend the money to buy the books off of Amazon most of the time

01:04:54

We can go to the local library and get it ourselves

01:04:57

It's right there. It's just not blatantly obvious and so a lot of people won't dig and again

01:05:05

I'm putting myself in this category where ah it's too much effort

01:05:09

Really if you could see what sort of impact that would have you would be all over it

01:05:14

But you can't see

01:05:17

That far into the future to see how things are going to be different

01:05:20

It's only when you look back like we have over 129 episodes of this

01:05:26

And we can and I can see you know where I was when I started where I am now and how that has helped me

01:05:33

That that provides the the momentum to to keep going so don't wait three years to to wish you had read more books

01:05:40

Just read more books

01:05:43

Simple just you know sit down and read

01:05:45

Super simple. What's the

01:05:48

You know people talk about they want to be the first

01:05:51

In a field like I want to be the first one to come up with a brand new idea

01:05:55

No, the people who are successful are second. Yep. It happens

01:06:00

In every industry in some form or another

01:06:02

You want to be a fast second common?

01:06:05

Yes, you see something

01:06:08

You realize it could be big you see what their core

01:06:12

Fundamental problem is and why the first person of the industry isn't doing it right

01:06:16

You fix that problem

01:06:19

And then you take off Oreos are that way forward motor company is that way like I we could give you all sorts of

01:06:25

Examples here apple and Xerox they talk about in this chapter. Yeah. Yeah

01:06:30

Absolutely. So even apples stuff is stolen. So like this is not

01:06:35

being first is not what you're after

01:06:38

fast second is what you're after and a quick way to do that is

01:06:43

Consume things from people who are the experts

01:06:47

As frequently as you can and take audience with them as much as you can and given the age that we live in

01:06:53

It's very easy to do that like this morning. I was learning some things from Elon Musk

01:06:58

because I thought it was interesting and

01:07:01

That is not something you used to be able to do but you didn't used to be able to

01:07:06

Talk to the CEO

01:07:09

Or learn from the CEO of a major company

01:07:12

Who's breaking all the rules like you didn't used to be able to learn from them?

01:07:17

Well, you can do that now. Yeah, because they interview they're on podcast. They're

01:07:21

You know creating their own media. They're coming up with things all over the place and they're you know on the media somewhere

01:07:28

You can go learn from them and

01:07:30

That's a huge benefit

01:07:32

If you're willing to use the tools at your disposal for that purpose and not just

01:07:38

Killing a couple hours because you're tired and want to go to bed. Yeah learning is not just consuming information though because there is no

01:07:46

shortage of information

01:07:49

It's forcing yourself to decide like we already talked about what does this mean to me

01:07:55

But when you go through that additional step, which is honestly not that much more additional work

01:08:00

That's where all the value comes in

01:08:03

but if all I did was

01:08:06

Write down notes from all of these books that we read and stored them somewhere

01:08:11

Like I used to do this inside of ever note

01:08:13

You have all this text that you can go back and you can search

01:08:16

But it doesn't give you any day-to-day value. You're not bumping up into it again until you have the thought

01:08:22

Oh, I need to go find this thing and then you can go retrieve it

01:08:25

But I want to have this stuff impact my day-to-day thinking and so that is that is a little bit different here

01:08:33

Also going back to the the quality of the information that you collect

01:08:39

I'm reminded of an audio book that I listened to one time. I won't say read because listening to an audiobook is not reading

01:08:49

And it's the art of exceptional living by Jim Rohn and the reason that I listened to it is that it did not exist in a printed format

01:08:56

It was just a CD

01:08:59

But one of the things that he said in that I've listened to it probably a dozen times

01:09:02

I kept it my car because I listened to it over and over again because it was just so good

01:09:06

But there was one thing he said in there that really stuck with me

01:09:08

He said that three questions that you should ask about the people in your life

01:09:13

Number one, who am I allowing to speak into my life?

01:09:17

Number two, what effect what effect is that having on me?

01:09:20

Number three, is that okay?

01:09:23

If you ask those three questions, honestly about

01:09:28

most social media and I will say without fail

01:09:33

absolutely 100 Facebook

01:09:36

You would you would not use it anymore

01:09:42

Because it's making you more angry. It's making you more anxious. It's making you more stressed out

01:09:47

I mean there are research studies just as we record this

01:09:51

Just this week that articles have run about how Facebook is linked to higher teenage suicide rates

01:10:00

It's a proven thing the algorithm is evil get away from that jump

01:10:05

But we just we've trained ourselves like this is what we do so

01:10:10

When you have to label

01:10:12

The inputs in your life as either good or bad

01:10:15

It's a lot easier to let stuff go as opposed all this is what this is what I do

01:10:19

if you don't have to

01:10:22

If you don't have to make a value judgment

01:10:24

You can just keep doing the same thing over and over again

01:10:26

And you can kind of hope and wish that things get better

01:10:29

But you're not really going to be motivated to do anything about it

01:10:32

And I have totally been in that place. So I empathize with people who are stuck there

01:10:38

That's also one of the reasons I did that action item from back in the day where I rated all of my relationships

01:10:43

Yes, yes, I hope that still varies plus plus plus to minus minus. Yeah, it's just recognizing

01:10:50

What's really going on and trying to tip the scale more towards the positive? Yes

01:10:57

And I am convinced that books are the way to go

01:11:00

absolutely

01:11:03

Two things I'm going to give you an action item to your listener

01:11:07

Buy books

01:11:08

And listen to bookworm those your two tasks those are the things you need to do. Okay, so that you'll be you'll be set

01:11:15

You can listen to bookworm first as a filter to decide which books are worth really

01:11:20

Reading but then go back and read the books or yes, you want you can read along with us

01:11:26

Because in its largest book club asterisk

01:11:30

Like the bookmarks say

01:11:34

Yes, and the thing here is that you should know it we talk about

01:11:37

A lot of the big points in these books, but there's a lot that we don't cover in most books

01:11:45

Yeah, there's so much more so just need to say that

01:11:47

chapter eight thinking with peers

01:11:50

This one is interesting. I guess

01:11:54

Uh, this chapter kind of made me sad to be honest because the big thing from this

01:12:00

That's set up to me is that you should fight as if you're right and listen as if you're wrong

01:12:05

And I read that and I'm like, yes, totally

01:12:08

And then I get sad because how do you implement that?

01:12:12

Company culture if you're not at the very top

01:12:15

Interesting that that's fascinating that you have that perspective because I

01:12:20

like like you're saying yes

01:12:23

Talk and fight like your rights and then listen like you're wrong

01:12:28

I feel like I do that a lot and I didn't realize that I did that a lot again. This is another one of those

01:12:32

I didn't know this was happening

01:12:34

But I do this with my boss quite a bit and then the upper leadership

01:12:40

That are above him. I do it quite a bit with them

01:12:44

And it seems like it changes things over time

01:12:48

Like it seems like it has that impact now

01:12:50

I don't know if that's a factor of the specific culture that I'm sitting in

01:12:55

Or if that's a more universal thing. I don't know. I would assume it's not universal

01:12:59

But I don't know. I I don't have a clean answer on that one, but

01:13:03

Well, let me clarify a little bit here because I think you can implement this in

01:13:09

varying degrees

01:13:12

So I would argue that I do this as well too

01:13:16

However, when I read that

01:13:19

I was like, yes, this needs to be like a company core value

01:13:23

It needs to be explicitly written sure every single meeting everyone comes in with this in mind

01:13:30

Because if you are clear about that

01:13:32

Then I feel you minimize the chances of people's feelings getting hurt

01:13:37

and I

01:13:39

I have been in situations where that has been communicated explicitly, but it is not

01:13:44

Um, it is not common. I feel

01:13:49

However, there's tons of value that comes from this the example that she uses in this chapter of

01:13:56

Brad bird and john walker

01:13:59

They are famous for fighting openly at pixar people will hear them yelling at each other

01:14:05

and

01:14:07

When I read that I was like wow, that would be a cool company culture if that was acceptable

01:14:13

But everybody also knew that it was healthy

01:14:15

I've been in companies where that happens and it's not healthy and it's just kind of oh, let's just pretend that didn't happen

01:14:23

But when it's

01:14:26

Recognize that this is part of the creative process and that's really the

01:14:30

The goal here is you have people who are working off of each other

01:14:36

Not just trying to dominate and get their own way

01:14:40

But this is part of the process and we all agree that the end result here is going to be better because of it

01:14:46

There was another book we read and I can't put my finger on the title

01:14:50

But they talked about the right brothers fighting like this all the time

01:14:55

And then they would come back the next day and be oh, you were right

01:14:58

The bull though would say that yes. Yes. Yes. Exactly. It wasn't just a single personality

01:15:04

Constantly getting their way because the other one went home and

01:15:08

realized it was eating them up and didn't want to

01:15:11

Upset things at Thanksgiving, you know, it was just this is

01:15:15

This is the deal and we're gonna work this this process

01:15:19

That's that's like it's a good point to bring up

01:15:22

I've I've dealt with this one specifically a lot in our house remodel because

01:15:26

Because we're on such a tight time frame. I've had a lot of people come help

01:15:29

and have asked a lot of people to help and I've been

01:15:32

very specific about who I asked to help on what thing because I know like

01:15:38

Different people have different skill sets, right?

01:15:39

I can invite just about any person over to help hold a beam in place

01:15:45

But I have specific people I'm gonna ask over to help me with electrical like this. This is very intentional. However

01:15:51

Whenever I have had some folks over to help like there are sometimes

01:15:56

Details on how something should she something should be done that we disagree on

01:16:03

And granted it's my house. So I have the last say on that

01:16:07

but I always want to make sure that we're both on the same page when we're doing these things and

01:16:13

More often than not one or the other of us in almost every case that this has happened

01:16:18

Has just said let's go work on something else

01:16:21

And come back to this one like that. That's kind of a thing that people in construction

01:16:25

I know do it's like I can't figure this out right now

01:16:28

I either need to go home for the night or go work on something completely different and come back to it

01:16:32

and

01:16:33

almost every single time

01:16:36

Actually in this case, I think it's every single time when we've come back to it

01:16:39

It's always meant not we should do it your way and both of us are saying that

01:16:43

Yeah, and they're completely different people. So

01:16:46

Yes, I I feel like that's a very common thing that can happen at least in healthy relationships

01:16:52

That's that's a lot of what happens, but it's been fascinating to me to see that come about

01:16:56

Yeah, it makes makes a lot of sense

01:16:59

And it is kind of sad. I feel at least my personality type that

01:17:06

The default is to avoid that sort of conflict. I'm of sure people pleaser by nature

01:17:12

So

01:17:14

Unless I go into it knowing explicitly that the rules allow and actually encourage this sort of thing

01:17:22

I tend to

01:17:24

not want to go there

01:17:26

and then

01:17:27

Sometimes I'll I'll suppress it for so long that eventually I'll just

01:17:32

Say it and that's where I also get into trouble where now I have an unhealthy attachment to this thing

01:17:38

Because I have brewed on it for so long that I'm actually fighting just to get by way

01:17:44

The better way to do it is like you're talking about, you know, we we have these strong opinions strong convictions slightly held

01:17:54

Yep. Yep. Absolutely. All right last chapter

01:17:58

Not the very last part of the book because there is a conclusion, but chapter nine is thinking with groups

01:18:03

I thought this chapter was interesting. There's some cool team building type stuff in here

01:18:08

There's a whole section on how to generate groupiness. She talks

01:18:12

That's the term she uses if we need to work together. We should learn together. We should train together

01:18:17

We should feel together. We should engage in rituals together

01:18:21

and it just makes me sad to think about all of the

01:18:26

Asynchronous

01:18:27

Work that tries to happen in all of these silos, especially with covid and a lot of people working remote for the the first time

01:18:35

you lose a lot of this sort of stuff and

01:18:39

I feel a lot of people don't even realize

01:18:42

How things are different yet? Maybe but it's not good

01:18:47

There's a lot of that intangible stuff that you uh, you don't

01:18:52

Realize how much it makes a difference until it's maybe too late. This is this is the piece of

01:18:57

covid remote work

01:19:00

Ramifications that I don't think we've fully understood quite yet. Yep. People who

01:19:04

Yeah, people who have worked in remote companies

01:19:08

Usually have one of two responses one. This is amazing and

01:19:12

You know, I I can work whenever I want

01:19:15

And the async thing means that I can you know share my thoughts whenever I'm writing

01:19:20

That that's usually one response. The other is

01:19:23

There are no people in my life and I have no real connection with the people that I'm working with

01:19:30

For some folks, that's exactly what they want

01:19:32

I would venture to say that for most people that's not helpful

01:19:37

This is why I think there are a number of companies that over time that are now who have tried remote work

01:19:43

And then have just rejected it entirely

01:19:46

As a result now I say that knowing this is what you do right mike and it's true

01:19:52

I know that I have done this in the past. I

01:19:55

Have been in a lot of scenarios

01:19:58

Where remote work was the way things were done because it's not possible for me to fly to china or Canada or

01:20:04

South africa to meet with my clients like it's just not possible

01:20:08

So those are things that I know are restrictions, right?

01:20:13

But there is something to be said for

01:20:16

like working together and having those rituals and having those routines together

01:20:22

And as much as we talk about how we don't like meetings like I have a weekly staff meeting

01:20:27

That I go to but there is a whole ritual that goes with that and a routine now granted

01:20:33

It can last an hour and a half two hours sometimes three hours

01:20:36

but that's the time at which we connect as people

01:20:40

and

01:20:43

Do a lot of things other than just

01:20:45

Talk about business at church like we'll celebrate birthdays. We'll grab donuts or cake or something like that's part of it

01:20:52

We may spend 30 minutes talking about what we're doing for vacations for

01:20:56

The summer like that sort of thing does happen as part of that. So

01:21:00

There's a lot more to it, but if that staff meeting were to go away

01:21:05

I know that I wouldn't connect with my coworkers near as much as what I do now

01:21:10

So right there is that piece so as much as remote work has had its

01:21:15

promotion and its heyday

01:21:17

Heart of me feels like we're on the edge of wondering whether or not

01:21:22

That's the way we should be going in the future and I say that knowing that that's becoming the norm right now. Yeah

01:21:27

So interesting story from this

01:21:30

section here

01:21:32

uh regarding the synchronous

01:21:34

movements

01:21:35

You're probably not doing synchronous movements in your staff meetings, but no, maybe you are if you are they'd probably be better

01:21:41

maybe

01:21:43

maybe

01:21:44

But one of the things that she calls out is that those synchronous movements flip the switch from ithinking to we thinking and

01:21:50

I loved this

01:21:53

Concept as I was reflecting on this. I was thinking about my middle school

01:21:59

soccer coaching experience

01:22:02

I'm coaching my sons one of them is in eighth grade one of them is in sixth grade

01:22:07

And they're both homeschooled, but there's kind of like a co-op sort of a thing that has a has sports teams

01:22:12

so

01:22:13

We actually have a team that plays other small schools in the area

01:22:19

and

01:22:21

Most of the soccer teams that we play are seventh and eighth grade

01:22:26

Just boys

01:22:28

We are fifth through eighth grade boys and girls

01:22:31

A majority of the kids on the team have never played before

01:22:36

We do have some very talented players, but we also have this thing where everybody gets to play both halves

01:22:42

And we've got 22 kids, which means that the good players aren't in all the time

01:22:49

So different coaching philosophies

01:22:51

Larger pool of kids and younger kids that we're drawing from means the beginning of the year

01:22:57

We were getting smoked our first game. We lost I think five to one

01:23:01

second game was like 12 to one

01:23:04

and after that second game, I didn't realize

01:23:08

uh, the value of this but

01:23:11

I

01:23:13

Had to step in the the head coach actually

01:23:15

Uh, someone in his family was dealing with covid

01:23:19

So they had to quarantine for a couple weeks base of means I was running everything as the assistant coach

01:23:23

The scenario I had worked so hard to avoid here. I was

01:23:27

And you're on the second game. Awesome. Yes. So the

01:23:34

The very next game I

01:23:36

Picked a couple of the eighth grade boys

01:23:39

Uh, basically with eighth graders. There's just three eighth graders on the the team

01:23:42

So

01:23:43

They're the older older kids made them the the captains and I made them

01:23:47

Lead the whole team in a standard pregame routine starting with

01:23:53

stretches

01:23:55

Believe it or not before this they would just like come screw around for a half an hour to start the game

01:24:00

They never did anything together. So

01:24:03

They are doing these stretches the whole team is lining up on the line. They're calling them out

01:24:07

They're counting them out together and then they go through a couple other like warm-up type drills together

01:24:11

But it's a process and everybody does it together and then when I read this the synchronous movements

01:24:16

I thought about that with the stretching

01:24:18

I'm like well stretching is successful. No one has pulled a muscle since the

01:24:21

The first game when some get hurt is hamstring, right?

01:24:24

but

01:24:26

A strange thing has happened over the last several games where we are actually much more competitive than maybe we should

01:24:33

be

01:24:34

And as I read this I'm like, huh

01:24:36

So maybe that stretching that synchronous movement that flips the switch at the beginning of the games from

01:24:42

Eye to we and we end up playing a lot better together and

01:24:46

We still haven't won a game. We've been ahead a couple of times. We've had two ties

01:24:50

Which honestly we should have won both of those games

01:24:53

But if you would have told me at the beginning of the year, we would have tied any of the games be like no

01:24:58

No, we're not good enough

01:25:01

Yeah, but I am reflecting on that and I'm thinking that that actually probably has a lot more to do with the success than

01:25:08

How good I am as a coach in terms of teaching soccer ability

01:25:11

Yeah, it's fascinating to me that whenever you can figure out how to work together as a group

01:25:17

It makes a big big difference. So yep kudos on you kudos on the stretching

01:25:23

Thanks. There's another thing I wanted to touch on with with this section on thinking in a group

01:25:28

There's a couple of specific

01:25:30

I guess tips you could say but I don't think she framed him as that

01:25:34

Number one if you are a leader

01:25:37

Don't tell anybody what you think because she says that as soon as the leader makes his or her preferences

01:25:43

No, and everyone else engages in self-silencing

01:25:45

I've totally seen this and I've been guilty of this myself

01:25:48

And uh, I can think of a couple different groups

01:25:50

I'm a part of where I do hold some regular meetings and

01:25:56

Kind of the big takeaway for me is just start the meeting and then

01:25:59

Ask people what they think and even if there's a big long awkward silence after that wait for somebody else to make the first move

01:26:05

Yep. Yep. I remember that from my corporate days like I was very good at awkward silences like I'll wait all day

01:26:13

Yeah, somebody else is speaking first. Do not care

01:26:16

Right and then a couple of their just practical things. I think if you're thinking in a group

01:26:21

Have leaders sounds themselves. That's the one I was just talking about

01:26:24

Make your thought process visible. So as you are

01:26:27

Talking about things and deciding on things if you have to do it via zoom

01:26:32

Have somebody share their screen and document it live like take live notes

01:26:36

So that everybody can see what's going on create group artifacts

01:26:40

If you're talking through a process have like a diagram at the end of this is the process or this is the sop whatever

01:26:46

Then ultimately the last one here identify who is responsible for doing that that part makes sense

01:26:52

If you're going to run an effective meeting you got to have action items and people responsible for them

01:26:56

But there's another piece to this identify who is responsible for doing and knowing what

01:27:02

I feel like this is the one where I've got a lot of

01:27:06

room for growth

01:27:08

because I can't even

01:27:10

Recall the the number there's too many the number of times we've gotten into a meeting and well, what did we decide?

01:27:17

I don't remember I thought we wrote it down somewhere and no one really wrote it down because everyone assumed that the other person

01:27:22

This is their project. They're gonna take notes on it whatever

01:27:26

So this is a big takeaway for me though. Not a specific action item

01:27:31

Just something I want to keep in mind for future meetings is make sure that

01:27:35

The knowledge that is being generated by a group that there's an owner of that as well for the future

01:27:40

Hey, that goes back. I think we talked about this last time like it seems like every little meeting that I have it's like, okay here

01:27:46

Here's the thing we talked about who's doing what what moves it forward? Am I doing it?

01:27:51

Like what is the next step that needs taken here? Like that is just it's so important

01:27:56

Yep, and unless somebody dictates that a decision on what comes next

01:28:01

Unless somebody makes that decision. Guess what? Nothing happened

01:28:05

Yep, it's true. All right, then the last part of this book the conclusion. Let's just touch on this briefly

01:28:13

This is a one of the most effective summaries of a book I have ever read

01:28:20

The flow of this goes something like this

01:28:22

Mental extensions can help combat the stereotype threat which is a temporary condition that seps brainpower to those affected rendering them less intelligent

01:28:31

Extensions are most powerful when deployed in combination

01:28:35

And then she goes on through the nine principles for mind extending whenever possible fill in the blank

01:28:41

I don't want to talk for the next five minutes without a break. So I'm not going to go through all of those but

01:28:48

Oh, and by the way the traditional academic system the way we take tests that discourages and even eliminates these extensions

01:28:56

So the system is broken

01:28:58

But this is the best way to to move forward which is amazing like this this is a

01:29:04

Well-written conclusion, right? Yeah, here are all the ways that you could think

01:29:09

externally and by the way, here's some ways to help you do that but the practical what to do about it piece

01:29:18

Is not belabored and made into an entire part on its own it is not

01:29:22

Sprinkled throughout the whole thing either. It's like here you go. I just gave you a whole bunch of information and here's your action items

01:29:30

Yeah, that's bookworm model to a t right there

01:29:34

Even the lead into the conclusion is expertly done because the last story from chapter nine talks about the

01:29:41

public school system in Austin, Texas

01:29:45

And the person who was leading some change there and then

01:29:49

Their son is the subject of the story at the beginning of the conclusion. So there's a perfect

01:29:58

Connection between these yeah, like I said, this is one of the best conclusions. I think I've I've ever read

01:30:03

Which is why I put it on the the outline there's

01:30:07

Not just a summary of what she said there's some new information here

01:30:12

But it builds perfectly on everything that she has mentioned prior to this

01:30:16

Anything else you want to mention about this book before we get into action items? I don't think so. I mean there's there's a lot here

01:30:23

So no, I'm good. All right. Well, let's talk about action items then

01:30:29

You want to go first? Sure. Yeah, so I have

01:30:33

The one where I want to talk to Becky about our middle

01:30:39

Child rose and how to maybe help her with movement and such

01:30:44

And maybe some nature stuff to maybe help her with

01:30:47

Retention on some school things. So I have that as a an action item. So I'm going to work through that

01:30:52

with Becky and then

01:30:55

You know, we we talked early on with follow-up of like my whole daily routine thing

01:31:00

I feel like a lot of this book sets itself up really well for routine based

01:31:06

Action items here because they're like ongoing type

01:31:11

Methods like here are ways you should live your life not a here. You need to go use this system for managing your tasks

01:31:18

Right. So it is set up to be longer term

01:31:22

So I think what I'm doing is I'm kind of taking some of this

01:31:26

And going to see how this incorporates into that daily routine action item that I'm carrying over

01:31:32

So I think we're just going to incorporate some of this into those

01:31:36

Discussions whenever I'm setting some of that up. So kind of broadening that one and

01:31:41

Adding some time to it as well. So those are the ones that are standing out to me at the moment

01:31:48

I feel like this one

01:31:50

Yes, there could be a lot more action items and I suspect that you have more

01:31:54

Than just two but I feel like this is one that action items may pop up over time

01:32:01

Sure, I don't feel like I've said that before but this one feels like okay

01:32:05

Here's a whole bunch of information. I feel like this is going to come back

01:32:08

And I'm going to have the tendency to add some things later

01:32:11

So I'm kind of curious when we get to follow up in a couple weeks

01:32:15

If there have been any things that have popped up in that time frame

01:32:20

So but I'm going to start with the two all right

01:32:22

Well, I'm going to blow your mind because I also have two action items

01:32:26

Which we've talked about both of them already

01:32:30

I do agree that there probably is potential for a lot more

01:32:34

With this

01:32:35

But as I was reading this there were two things that I heard and I was like, okay

01:32:38

Yeah, I'm going to do that the first one meditate for reals

01:32:42

Yep, the one I am not looking forward to

01:32:45

The second one think on paper

01:32:49

So what that means is I've been time blocking my day every day in my notebook

01:32:54

I've got my five tasks up to five tasks that I'm going to complete

01:32:57

And I have that all created usually the night before

01:33:02

But I don't really use the rest of the page very often for thinking

01:33:07

I keep it next to my desk. I take notes in it like when we're recording a podcast

01:33:12

If there's something you know an edit point or whatever or something

01:33:15

I want to remember

01:33:16

I saw you jotting down some notes you probably do this too if somebody's talking about something

01:33:20

I want to go back and talk about that. I'll jot that down in a in a list

01:33:23

but I don't

01:33:25

Think on paper and so I want to

01:33:27

Spend some time thinking about how I can do that more effectively

01:33:32

I've done it before

01:33:33

I think it's as simple as just making lists and things inside of the notebook

01:33:39

Making outlines in there first not just using it as a capture place basically

01:33:45

So those are mine

01:33:47

uh style and rating

01:33:49

My book so i'll go first. This is a great book

01:33:53

You just go buy this book

01:33:55

Go buy and read this book even if you're not interested in the concepts

01:34:00

I feel coming into this because we had heard about some of this stuff before

01:34:05

Our reaction to it was oh this helped me understand why

01:34:11

More frequently than it brought an idea where oh my gosh. I've never heard this before

01:34:17

I can see a scenario though where

01:34:20

That is the case

01:34:23

And I would be hard pressed to think of a better resource

01:34:28

For a lot of the ideas that are presented here

01:34:31

I can't think of anything I would really recommend

01:34:34

Higher than this for a lot of those

01:34:37

Maybe mental inflection points if that that makes sense

01:34:40

uh if you're coming into this and

01:34:43

You're thinking with movement, you know, that's a brand new concept to you

01:34:49

I think she does a great job laying out why you should

01:34:52

Do that why you should get outside and go for walks and things like that

01:34:56

Like I said not brand new to you and me but

01:34:59

It was kind of surprising to me that we we both had the same reaction though of oh

01:35:04

That's why I was doing that and it creates motivation to to keep doing it

01:35:08

So who is this for?

01:35:10

Absolutely everyone

01:35:12

In terms of the style

01:35:14

It is a very

01:35:16

It is the work of a lot of research

01:35:19

Uh, it's a very academic book without feeling like that

01:35:24

The stories are very well written. I feel like it is very

01:35:28

approachable

01:35:29

Maybe not maybe we

01:35:31

She talks in the in this book about you know, if you become an expert in something you

01:35:36

You forget about all of the beginner steps that you have to go through

01:35:39

Just kind of lump them all together

01:35:41

And so it's hard for somebody who's just coming into something

01:35:45

I do recognize that that is a possibility maybe with this

01:35:48

But I I still think this is a

01:35:51

Phenomenal book, uh, I think it's kind of set up by the way for a sequel

01:35:56

The very last sentence in here. She talks about the extended mind being connected to the extended heart

01:36:03

I feel like there's a whole book on on that

01:36:06

So maybe there's like a whole series that she's going to be getting into with this

01:36:11

It's one of the best books of 2020 on amazon for a reason

01:36:16

I'm going to rate it five stars

01:36:19

the coveted five star

01:36:21

rating

01:36:23

I don't think there's anything in here specifically

01:36:26

That we we talk about our action items, but there's those action items are not going to completely change our lives

01:36:34

Like maybe some other action items you would think when you get done with a book that

01:36:39

I would typically rate it as 5.0. Oh that light bulb went on for the very first time

01:36:43

This is something that i'm going to do and I can already see how this is going to totally revolutionize everything that I do

01:36:49

But I do think like you said this is the kind of thing that is going to stick with you

01:36:53

And you're going to make a whole bunch of micro adjustments over time

01:36:55

Based off of stuff that you have read from this it's going to impact other things and you're not going to realize

01:37:01

The total value of reading this for a very long time kind of like how to read a book

01:37:07

That's what I was thinking about when I was reading this is like this is

01:37:09

The modern version of how to read a book and 10 years from now

01:37:13

We're going to go back to this book and say that was the point where all of this stuff kind of clicked for us

01:37:19

But we don't know that for sure until we we get to that point

01:37:23

So yeah 5.0 not just because it's a good book, but because I I think it's a very applicable

01:37:30

A very approachable book for just about anybody who would pick it up

01:37:35

And yet you're rating this one really well on rated how to read a book very poorly

01:37:38

I should probably go back and adjust that rating maybe episode 200

01:37:42

We'll uh, we'll adjust some more ratings adjust it. Yeah

01:37:45

All right. Well, I

01:37:48

I think you have nailed it with some of the style pieces here like this thing is

01:37:52

Very polished they have spent a long time editing this she spent a long time

01:37:59

Writing this you can tell this is not something that was whipped up in the span of you know six months

01:38:05

like it took time to put this together and

01:38:09

it shows and

01:38:11

The detail at which the subtleties are put together is phenomenal like it's just like you were talking about leading chapter nine into the conclusion

01:38:19

Not a lot of authors go through the trouble of trying to set the stories up between sections to connect

01:38:26

Yeah, and it seems like every part

01:38:30

Had a kicker at the end that would lead into the next part every chapter within those parts did the same thing like it

01:38:36

It's very well thought out and I appreciate that. Yes. It's a three part three chapter per part thing

01:38:42

We tend to rail on those this one. I think is very justified in that. I'm with you. I absolutely love this thing

01:38:49

I think everybody should read it and

01:38:51

It's dense. It's 250 pages

01:38:54

But it moves fast like there's a lot

01:38:58

That's covered. There's a lot of science and yet it's not overwhelming

01:39:03

It's got a really good balance in so many ways that I feel like this is very approachable to just about anybody

01:39:10

Uh as long as your reading level is up to that point. So that said i'll join you at 50 like this is this is one that people should read

01:39:19

and

01:39:20

Yes, we covered it here, but

01:39:22

There are so many things we didn't talk about. Yeah

01:39:25

Like I've there are there are books that we cover on bookworm

01:39:29

And I feel like we have teased out and talked about all the points that you really need out of a book

01:39:33

And at that point there's really no reason for you to go read it

01:39:36

We've talked about a lot. We've been recording now for an hour and 45 minutes and I feel like

01:39:42

There's so much more there's so much we haven't talked about we didn't even get into like why she she says articulately

01:39:49

That daniel condiment system two system one stuff is crap. Oh, yeah

01:39:53

Yeah, yeah, she talks about all like

01:39:56

carol de wack has brought up at the beginning and

01:40:00

Like grit is brought up like these are all things that we could dive deep on each one of those and we just completely skipped

01:40:05

Like there's so much in this and I love that

01:40:10

I feel like we don't run across books this dense anymore

01:40:13

Because people are on a deadline and they're out to write a book. They're not necessarily out to share information

01:40:19

And in this case, Annie did not do that. So kudos to Annie

01:40:24

Uh, well done. I can't wait to read your next one. So yes, five oh from me. All right

01:40:30

So let's put the extended mind

01:40:32

On the shelf

01:40:34

What is next joebulig the one i'm coming up next we both don't have in our hands yet because you can't get it in your hands yet

01:40:41

And that is courage is calling by ryan holiday. It's on pre-order right now

01:40:46

And by the time this releases you can go order it so as we're recording it you can't get it yet

01:40:52

But as it releases you can

01:40:54

And we'll get it here in about four days or so and then cover that in a couple weeks

01:40:58

but this is the beginning of what I think is a four part series by holiday

01:41:03

and

01:41:04

It's basically talking about fear and how overcoming fear

01:41:09

Is the route you need to take?

01:41:11

I feel like I should leave it there because there's so much I could talk about already and I don't even have the book in my hands

01:41:15

We have always liked ryan holiday. So i'm super anxious to get this one in my hands and start on it

01:41:21

Cool

01:41:22

And what are you gonna do after that mike? I don't know yet. You haven't updated the outline. Yeah, sorry

01:41:28

I'll save it here in a second, but uh

01:41:30

I a little bit ago asked my mastermind group

01:41:35

What is the best book that you have read this year?

01:41:39

and

01:41:41

one of them that came up

01:41:43

Definitely sparked interest in me from a bookworm perspective

01:41:47

So that is the one i'm going to pick and it is a minute to think

01:41:51

Reclaim creativity conquer business and do your best work by juliett

01:41:56

Fund I think I have seen juliett front speak at the entre leadership summit

01:42:03

But I can't recall I can't find the speaker list from

01:42:08

When I was there, I think I wrote down her last name wrong, which is why I can't verify this 100

01:42:15

But I think it's the same it's the same person

01:42:19

But this one

01:42:22

Actually, I talked to somebody who had interviewed her and said that this was by far one of the best interviews

01:42:28

They have ever had she's super super smart and

01:42:31

This book comes very highly recommended. Basically it is very much in alignment with what we do

01:42:39

So I am expecting great things from from this book, but we will find out for sure

01:42:46

in

01:42:48

Bottom-month sweet sounds fun a minute to think okay

01:42:52

Fascinating assuming you don't have any any gap books because you do not have a minute to read

01:42:57

In the next couple weeks no none whatsoever

01:43:01

I can watch lots of videos on how to build stairs and such but outside of that no not at all okay

01:43:07

Yo, well, I have another gap book that I am going to attempt

01:43:12

From that same meeting a recommendation

01:43:15

Which maybe we talked about this one at some point, but

01:43:18

It is you are the brand by mike kim

01:43:23

I

01:43:25

have realized with the

01:43:27

Because that for a long time I had kind of had this thought

01:43:31

That the ideal company is in the attach to an individual

01:43:35

And there's just a bunch of people who are contributing and I still think there's a lot of value contributing in a team

01:43:42

But do it in a way I guess my my evolved thinking at this point is do it in a way where it emphasizes the

01:43:48

individuality of the people on the team where the the

01:43:51

Some of the parts is great is greater than the the is greater than the individual that the the whole is greater than the some of the parts

01:43:59

That's how the saying goes

01:44:01

But as it pertains to a lot of the stuff that I do

01:44:03

I'm recognizing I just need to kind of lean into

01:44:06

my brand

01:44:08

I am

01:44:10

who I am

01:44:12

and

01:44:13

Being authentic with that I feel like I try to do that already but as it pertains to like faith-based productivity and

01:44:19

I'm trying to do some new things with that. I've got a

01:44:23

Assistant that helps me with all the editing of those sermon sketching up videos now

01:44:27

I sent out my first newsletter and over a year, you know, I want to do more of those and

01:44:32

I feel like this this book being highly recommended from

01:44:35

Someone who I consider to be a mentor of mine

01:44:38

You know that that there's a lot for me to learn

01:44:41

about

01:44:42

Communicating authentically about who I am so I'm gonna try and

01:44:46

Try and get a little bit better at that. Nice

01:44:49

Sounds interesting. It should be interesting. We'll see. I'm gonna read this as a

01:44:54

As we record this I'm leaving for the max.conference this afternoon

01:44:58

So that's the one that I'm I'm bringing with me

01:45:00

All right, so thank you everybody who has listened to this episode

01:45:07

Thank you to everyone who

01:45:10

Contributes financially to keep the show on the air

01:45:13

We really appreciate you paying members if you want to join those paying members and have our undying gratitude

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You can go to club.bookworm.fm

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Five bucks a month 50 bucks a year

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Like I said helps us pay for the hosting keep the lights on buy the books that we're reading

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etc

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You do get a couple of perks if you decide that you want to support the show that way you can get access to all of the

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Mind node files that I take all these notes and I upload both the pdf version and the mind node file

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So if you only use my notes is kind of like the basis you can edit those

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And you get access to some gapbook episodes that

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Joe recorded before he started fixing up a house

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You get a bookworm wallpaper stuff like that

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So club that bookworm.fm if you want to support the show

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Awesome

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And if you are one of the amazing people who has made the wonderful decision to read books and do that along with us

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Instead of waiting for the episode to release first

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Then you need to purchase courage as calling by ryan holiday and we'll discuss that with you in a couple weeks