Bookworm Transcripts

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All right, I'm itching to get into this Enneagram stuff and

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Curious did you take the the assessment Joe I did awesome?

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We're gonna have a great conversation about that, but first we gotta crank through some follow-up

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Okay, so the question on everybody's mind is did you time-block?

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I did how to go. I usually at least attempt it

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That's usually what I do

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so the this this comes from

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Joe having angst around time blocking, but yet everybody tells me it's the thing I should do

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so I feel like I should continue to try to do this and

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It usually fails on me and yet I continue to think it's a thing. I should try

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so I attempted this once more this time with the intention of

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Let's do this in the mornings. Let's let's not attempt to do an all-day thing

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We're not gonna do the 24-hour thing that some people do. Do you do it 24 hours or do you just do like your work day?

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I think it's pointless to time-block sleeping because I protect those hours anyways

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I honestly you know how like you put in your sleep goals into the Apple Health thing and I always I don't know if

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It's the default or if I set it to get eight hours of sleep every night. That's my goal. I

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can count on

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One hand since they added that feature the number of days. I have not gotten eight hours of sleep and

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nice that is because of

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My history with the epilepsy diagnosis and all that we don't need to go rehash that whole story, but I

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Don't want to have a seizure, so I get lots of sleep

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nice, yeah, so I

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Guess in a sense you are time-blocking it. You're just not writing it down. Yeah, so that's a long answer for no

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I don't time-block those hours, but my waking hours basically yeah

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from 7 a.m. to 9 p.m.

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I feel like if I were to attempt to do that and

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Have attempted to do that many times it just doesn't seem to go well because there's so much of my day that I can't control and

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When you have a portion of your job that requires you to react a

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Significant amount of time I guess it gets kind of difficult to

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To time-block that so how like how do you handle when fires are going to come up? So what I was attempting to do is

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Let's time-block the mornings because it seems like the mornings I can usually control somewhat and

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yet I don't have to

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React as much during those times so I was attempting to do this and

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I will say I had some semblance of success with this one and

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I think that's because I'm

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Mostly able to kind of block off

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myself from

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And I'm pointing over here because that's where the door is it's currently shut with a recording sign on it

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but I'm generally able to block off a lot of the

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Distractions interactions in the mornings knowing that that's okay if I have time for that in the afternoon

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Like if I make that available to people

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It can be done now. I know that like Tuesdays are kind of a tough day for that

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Because that's when like the majority of our staff is in

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So Tuesdays have proven to be a bit of a challenge to make that one done

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So I was only time-blocking till about 10 o'clock on

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Tuesdays, but it seems to work okay

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and I say okay because I

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think the portions of it that fail for me yet are

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Potentially ADHD related not necessarily

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External problems. It's more of an internal

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Struggle that I work through we actually may get into some of this today, but this is

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This is forever the Joe struggle. I think but all that to say I think I had a little bit of success with it

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I want to kind of continue that

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Experiment we'll see if that comes of anything I say that knowing that as soon as we're done recording here

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I'm leaving for five days to go to a cabin with my in-laws and brother-in-law. So that'll be a fun

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Five-day vacation. So it'll be it'll be good, but I'm not time-blocking while I'm gone. Just gonna say that

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That would be strange for 45 minutes. We're gonna go fishing for an hour and a half

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We're gonna go out on the pontoon like not not doing that I

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Don't time-block the vacations and I generally don't time-block the weekends either

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Unless there's like a project that I'm trying to get done and I need the time to

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To work on it, but try to avoid that as much as I can so I'm with you on on that

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And yeah, I think you just time-block the part of your day that you can actually control

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Right and then you try to push a little bit further and

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Whatever direction you can once you establish that foundation

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Right. Yeah, and that seems to be what's working. So I'll continue the experiment. We'll see what comes of it

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But I finally had at least some form of a success with time-blocking. Nice job

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So you have three here how'd they go?

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Mix bag so add daily wins to my journal. I did this basically what I did is I

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Relabeled I had a learnings section that I didn't fill out very often

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Because the way I journal I basically have the template and have all the different things and the only thing I absolutely do every day

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Is the daily questions we've been over this before but I have the different categories in case there's something

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I want to add to like an entry or a gratitude or I have a section for like links that I've collected

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That pulls in from pinboard. So like there's a whole bunch of other stuff. I could put in here

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But I don't do that every single day

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So I reframe that as wins and I feel like that's gonna get me to put more things there

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I was listening to maybe a John Maxwell thing and talked about how you either win or you learn and I like that

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approach

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Like if you if something doesn't go the way that you want it to

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You can deconstruct it you can figure out

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What were the the factors and see if there's something there that you can change instead of just being like oh well

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The stars didn't align for me. You know the whole self-determination thing which is

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in my

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in my wheelhouse, so I

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Did that but that spurred a whole bunch of other changes to my daily note template

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Of course right it seems like whenever you make one small tweak to something you use all the time

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It has these massive cascading effects that you never planned on yeah, so I added to the top of my

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Daily note this bar for the the year which has like 12 different, you know for the things for the months and then a little

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ticker so you can see like where we are in August looks like a year timeline sort of a thing I

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also

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Found a code that shows the progression of time for the day the month the year and even wait

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But why style your life?

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Nice, so I have this little thing on every single daily note the progression of time and I can see that

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50% of my life if I'm a if my lifespan is the 80 years what you plug into like the the date of ujs code

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You know 50% of it is is done

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66% of the year is done 48% of the month is done 33% of the day is done

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So that's that's kind of cool and just updates every single single day

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I also found a way to get the and format the

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the

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titles for the images on like faith life calm the people behind logos they have

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These like verse of the day images

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Sure, so I figured out how to put that into the template so it pulled the the file for today

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drops it into my daily note

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Which they're always they're always well done and add a little bit of bit of color to my my obsidian

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and I'm also playing around with

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tracking some habits using the tracker plug-in and

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also

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embedding tasks from to-doist

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Just gonna slide that one in like it's no big deal. Yep. Let's just move on to the next one

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So we have add daily wins to your journal and that leads to adding an entire tool is that what's going on here?

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Kinda. Yeah, so I've been messing around with

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Test management and obsidian and with the task plug-in you can actually do a lot. I

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Think I probably could make that work

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But the thing that's missing for me is the ability to capture something quickly

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and I

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Don't want to have to like for the day job switch over to obsidian and

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Then capture a task

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And you can't even like quick capture it in obsidian

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You got to like pick the note that you want to put it to I guess I could just point it to like the daily note all the time

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But I don't I don't really want to do that and so to-doist has

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Good apps and they have quick entry shortcuts on the Mac and it's really easy to add stuff on iOS

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And it's basically I've come to the realization that almost all task apps

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Task management apps on Apple devices have the same core building blocks. You know you got tasks. You got projects. You got tags

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I guess you could do priorities whatever but like you can kind of build together your own system and pretty much any of these apps

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I'm gonna focus still has the killer feature with the review

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But other than that they're kind of the same

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Unless you're gonna major in task management and then you're not doing you can't say this out loud, right?

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Yeah, yeah, I know I'm gonna get flack for that

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but the more you go into

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All the specifics and take advantage of all the features of these task management apps the less work you actually do

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That's the theory. Yeah, that's what I've seen

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So for my basic use they're basically all the same

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anyways

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That's a divergence, but the other thing in

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Obsidian actually they're all kind of sitting related today

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But the next one was to build my quote book

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I'm working on this, but I still can't get it the way that I like it because

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Obsidian, I'm sorry. They don't have block references

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They have these little codes they add to the end of blocks that you can point to that block from other places, but it's not I

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Don't know. It's like 90% of the way there

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I'm really trying to recreate what I originally had in in room research

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And I just I just can't do it with the way Obsidian is put together and I tried all sorts of different things a lot of the ways

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People are doing quote books online is they put the entire quote in the title of the note

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So I started playing with that that could work except that there's character limits on how long the the titles can be

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So eventually I will find a longer quote that will not be able to fit there

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Do you want to know how I do that one because I do keep quotes in

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Obsidian, but the way I do it is now granted everything starts in drafts for me

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Yep

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So I tend to drop the quote in drafts and then I have a drafts action that will grab the first

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seven words and then put a dot dot dot at the end of it and that becomes the title of

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The note and then I drop the rest of it in the quote note itself

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And then I leave it there that's as far as it goes for me, but I just figured I'm not gonna overcomplicate it

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Yeah, I have a feeling that's what I'm gonna have to do is something like that which feels a little bit chanky to be honest

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Just because I like sure I had before

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But I don't think that's possible and I'll get over it. It'll be fine

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But still you're the only thing you're really trying to do is embed a piece of an existing note somewhere else

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Is that the idea because you want to be able to have a note? That's all the quotes and

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Then grab a piece of it to embed it elsewhere. Is that the idea? I don't want a single note. That's all the quotes

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That's the thing like I could I could do that and then I could have all the block references and things

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I

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don't

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Yeah, that doesn't look great

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Okay, when it's implemented in my opinion

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So I feel like with obsidian you kind of have to to do what I want to do

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You kind of have to have the quote speed notes themselves, but was hung up on the length the three dots

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I think that's probably what I'll end up doing

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There is a lot of advantage to having each quote as its own note

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Because then you can put in the yaml metadata and you could put like author in there

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You could put topic in there and then you could do data view queries to pull on that information

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And that's pretty cool

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You know, that's something that I could never do before other than just do a plain text search and hey

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Did I any quotes have this word in it? So?

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There's something there, but I still haven't cracked that nut. I

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Will use your suggestion though and just do the dot dot dot. I will say I haven't had an issue because then you can

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Like if you want to just put a link to the quote like it's just a shortened version so then it doesn't take up your entire

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Note that you're trying to link back to the quote from yep

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But it also makes the process of embedding that quote pretty simple because it doesn't take as much

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Typing to get there so yeah, that's what I find but I know that you use it in a lot more

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intense ways than I do

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Yeah, well

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We'll see I mean I broke my node with all my

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Images for true principles. So maybe I can break obsidian - we'll see

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We tried with the Bible note

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Perverse thing like it's almost broke history

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Well, it kind of breaks on iOS to be honest fortunately. I don't use it on iOS a whole lot, but sure

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Because iOS has this stupid thing where they try to keep your the manager

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Space on your device and I have tons of space available

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I don't want you to ever get rid of the notes that I've downloaded from obsidian

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But it does it all the time and it has to read down. I just want to wait for the folder

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Exactly just that's all I do never delete stuff from from this folder

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That's that would take care of it, but so it's not obsidian's fault, but

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Anyways, and the last one was to make a list of things to fix around my house

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I did this and of course it's in obsidian

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Good work now the question is are you working on that list? No, not yet

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I

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Will say it did feel good to actually make the list though because these are things that like I see all the time

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And then it's like oh yeah, I gotta do something about that now I at least have it in a list somewhere so

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When I see the broken light in our master master bathroom that isn't a light bulb needs to be rewired

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And I don't want to touch it, you know, it's like, you know

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I have that on the list and I'm gonna get to that eventually so you don't have to worry about that right now. Yeah, yep

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totally fair

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All right, so we get into today's book

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Yes, we should most certainly all right cuz I'm dying to know what type you are

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You do, huh? I want to know

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All right

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Well today's book is the story of you by Ian Morgan Grown and

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I have to apologize a little bit here because I assumed that

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we would get like a code to take the Enneagram and

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We didn't we got a push to take his $60 test which I did not do I

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Didn't either I

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Content of the book aside

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this

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is a strange

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Marketing device I actually don't think it's much of a marketing device having done a little bit more research on him and

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And seen some of the other stuff that he's he's done

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but it felt weird like you buy the

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Strengths finder book and you get the code to take the assessment like almost every other book that we've read has been

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Like that and this one's like yeah, I'm gonna explain these results

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But you need the results in order to really understand what this is gonna mean

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Oh, by the way, you can do that

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But it's 60 bucks for the cheap one and 120 bucks. I think for the big one

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It's yep, it's insanely expensive compared to all the other assessment types

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And I know that there are lots of free resources for Enneagram out there

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So I was a little bit taken aback by that at the beginning like what are you trying to do here?

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but

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Yeah, so we both took

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Unassessment I found one that was actually research based because there are different versions of the Enneagram and a lot of them are just

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Almost like Facebook quiz style answer five questions and we'll tell you your type and I feel like those aren't super valid the the larger

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sample size you have the better results are going to get and I found one by

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RHE TI I don't know what that stands for off top my head

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right, so Hudson Enneagram type indicator

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But that one looked like it had a whole institute behind it

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Yeah, and and they had done a bunch of research behind

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How they formulated their results and how the types tied together and things like that

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So Enneagram is basically like this

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framework that it seems like there are a lot of different people who take a lot of different

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Interpretations or creative license and how it actually gets get implemented

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Yeah, I took the one you sent me because you have so much interest in

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Studies and how they're done that I figured I'm not gonna argue with Mike on this so I just took the one that you

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Gave me and I have to say like it was

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What was it 144 questions and it was basically like pick the one that's most?

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most applicable and

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When I got the results back, it's like oh that kind of makes sense and then the more I read it's like wait

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I've got three that are like all

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Within two points of each other. It's like oh crud

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I don't ever get this whenever I do these tests like it's always like this one is very obvious the thing and

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In this particular case I had three that were like all at the top which

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Now I don't know what to do with that because

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Normally I don't have that problem. So now I have to try to figure this out between these three

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I think because it said that you know the top three are the ones that you're most likely to be

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Within so it's okay now. I gotta try to work this out. So thankfully I took it before I read it

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So I think I kind of know where I'm sitting but I think we'll get there

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The other interesting part about the Enneagram is that you basically pick your own type

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You pick the one that resonates with you

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so the assessments are basically like a starting point in the journey and then you figure out or just decide like this is the one that I am

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which is kind of

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interesting because

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You have more agency in deciding how you're going to

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implement the

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Strengths and the shadow side of all of these different types

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And really it's in your best interest to be as accurate as possible because there are things that you have to

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Deal with and work through in order to

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Realize the strengths of the the different types

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But that's different than a lot of assessments which are just you are this

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Right and now your entire life will change and fall in line with how this works

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You are this tendency

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Yeah, so I think this is kind of a cool approach and I know the Enneagram itself is kind of based off of a

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In the words of the Amazon description for today's book an ancient personality typing system

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So maybe that kind of leads to it. Maybe

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productivity books and business people weren't a thing when this existed and so

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They just flew under the radar and didn't have an opportunity to say this is the way things are

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Branded right branded their own way. I don't know I

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Don't know it's it's a fascinating way to do it because normally you would like you're saying you would have somebody tell you exactly

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Like here's your thing, but in this case, you know

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But for example, my wife is certain she knows what her type is and yet

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She's not taking the quiz like she just kind of read some of the descriptions

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She had somebody else tellers like you're this just like what so then she went and read about it

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Oh, yeah, that's me to a T hundred percent. So

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Even even folks who haven't taken the quiz. I feel like if you were to read like some of these synopsies of

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Of each of the types you could figure it out pretty quick. So I I say that knowing that because this is

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And to be honest, I didn't really think of this book as a sales pitch. I get that it it kind of is

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But even if you don't take the quiz

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I feel like you could get quite a bit of value out of this because when you get to the one that is you

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I

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Feel like you'll know it pretty quick. So I don't think there's a deterrent in

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The book if you haven't taken the quiz, but like you're saying

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There are cheaper ways to do it. I did go take the exact same one you did that way

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We were both kind of on same footing with it. I didn't even look into his because by the time I got to that point

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You'd already sent me a link

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So like oh, okay, so I just completely skipped it and went on it. I did not know it was that expensive. So

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Maybe don't do that. I don't know. It's weird

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The way you're saying it like that. I don't know why you would

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Sell a book to explain results of a test that you have to pay the take like it just seems weird to do it that way

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But I hadn't connected all those dots till you explained it a minute ago

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Well, I'm intrigued by it now to be honest. I kind of want to take it because

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He also has a podcast called typology

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Which he mentions a few times I think in in here, but it's not

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Really like a big self promotion thing, right?

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I should also say his main job if you want to call it that I guess is he's an episcopal priest and

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And that is something I've heard about the Enneagram is that it is kind of rooted in Christian theology

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I didn't see that come through in any of the assessments that I took

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But I guess if you're looking for that and I really put off by that be aware that

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it seems like a lot of the

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Christian circles tend to like the Enneagram for for some reason

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It just seems like a personalized assessment to me. So whatever

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Yeah, I I was

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Obviously as a Christian I didn't

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Like it wasn't off-putting to me, but later on in the book he

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Eventually like he starts bringing in quite a bit of biblical references and such which I was not prepared for

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I didn't know that was coming at all

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But it made sense the way he explains it

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So there is that component if you're gonna pick up the book if that's off-putting to you just be aware of it

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Yeah, I really don't think it's

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That's not very pushy. No, it's it's not and a lot of the the content of the Enneagram itself

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Really, there's there's not

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Anything religious there

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I bring up typology because I listened to an episode and it was fascinating to hear him talk to somebody else and kind of act as the

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Therapist, I guess you know the person who was on the the show was

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Somebody who had achieved a lot and was a three will get into the specifics here

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But it was kind of interesting to hear her tell her story and then him just kind of comment

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here and there and

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Everything that he added was like pretty profound and you could tell like he really understands this stuff

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So after listening to that, I kind of do want to take his assessment see what additional information is is in there

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I don't know that he's the guy for the Enneagram. There's also another app called the any app which has like a

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$2.99 in app purchase

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for all of the information with the types and

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Has a version of the assessment that you can take in there

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I took that one too and that confirmed the results that I got from the R H E T I

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So that one's probably pretty decent as well and much less expensive the R H E T I by the way

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I think was like $12 so it really really wasn't bad

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But the book itself is broken out into 12 different chapters

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I think we have to talk about all the chapters probably, but they'll also go pretty fast. I think

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Chapter one is the stories we tell chapter two changing your story chapter three

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Starts with the eight story and then goes in order

00:25:06

I don't quite understand that one but it goes to the eights the nines and then it goes one two three four five six

00:25:12

Yeah, exactly

00:25:14

Which he he explains a little bit in what was it is a chapter two maybe yep

00:25:20

that the reason for that is because there's like triads correct these and

00:25:26

You want to start at the beginning of those triads which means that in order to cover the one first

00:25:31

He has to cover the ones triad which actually starts with number eight

00:25:35

correct, so that's why he has to do it that way, but

00:25:38

If you read the table of contents like I did and you see chapter three starts with eight

00:25:45

Like my my analytical brain is like why can't the ones story be chapter one? Yep? Oh?

00:25:53

Killed me because then like if you want to hear about the seven story you go to chapter 11 like oh and there

00:25:58

We have a clue for what type Joe is

00:26:00

correct. Yes

00:26:03

Yeah, so it is different and I got admit I don't really understand all the triad stuff yet

00:26:09

I also don't understand the wings, but

00:26:11

whatever so

00:26:14

Let's start here with chapter one, which is the

00:26:20

stories we tell and

00:26:23

I just jotted down a couple of things for this in my my node file and this basically

00:26:31

He's laying the foundation for why you should care about this stuff

00:26:35

He says that the the Enneagram not only reveals our types

00:26:39

But it exposes the broken stories we tend to tell and this is a theme that

00:26:44

Happens not just in this book, but also in the the podcast that I was listening to is the focus on

00:26:51

the brokenness when you're struggling

00:26:54

with your type and then kind of the redemption that happens when you figure it out and you

00:27:00

flow in your strength and there's different words there that he uses passion and

00:27:07

Virtue passion being the negative one virtue being the the positive one

00:27:11

So I like this though this framing

00:27:14

about we're all just in the middle of our own stories and

00:27:19

If you want to live a different story

00:27:22

You have the ability to do that and that's basically the Enneagram in a nutshell

00:27:28

You pick the story for the type that you want to live and then you model your life after after that

00:27:34

And maybe model is like gives the wrong impression because it's not like you completely change

00:27:39

Everything it's just kind of your perspective and how you go about the things that you do as we get into the types

00:27:45

If there's one that resonates with you, you you understand like oh, yeah, this is why I do this

00:27:50

Maybe I could do this instead, you know and that is kind of interesting, but that's basically chapter one anything else you want to add there

00:27:59

The only thing I want to add is that in chapter one he he's basically telling his story

00:28:05

And I'm not gonna go into the details of that but at the end of that process

00:28:11

he has a mentor who's

00:28:15

Helping him understand kind of himself and he asks Ian

00:28:19

The question do you ever wonder if you're living in the wrong story and oh I forgot about that. I love that part

00:28:26

Yeah, it's it's a pretty fundamental like crux. I think almost for the entire book

00:28:31

Because of the way he's laying it out, but it's his point is that

00:28:36

You might be making choices and you might be living a certain way

00:28:40

But that doesn't mean that's where you are

00:28:45

Best suited or it's not necessarily playing into your strengths. You're not becoming aware of your weaknesses

00:28:50

Like there's so many different ways you can take that but that question

00:28:55

Do you ever wonder if you're living in the wrong story?

00:28:57

Is fairly profound I would say and it's it's one that's I don't want to say haunted

00:29:04

but it hasn't left me alone since reading the question and

00:29:07

It's I could see how that could play out for a lot of people

00:29:12

you know look at your life right now and

00:29:15

if

00:29:16

there's

00:29:18

aspects of that you feel are

00:29:20

uncomfortable or you're struggling with

00:29:22

Maybe you're taking yourself down the wrong path. That's ultimately I guess what I'm getting it

00:29:28

But anyway, I appreciated the question, but I know you like questions. I do love me some questions

00:29:33

That's actually the perfect place to go into chapter two. I think because chapter two is changing your story and

00:29:41

This is where he explains that many people feel sorry for themselves while they're living in the wrong story

00:29:48

And we for whatever reason tend to be fiercely loyal to our broken stories

00:29:53

he mentions that all transformation starts with story transformation and

00:29:59

I can 100% get on board with the direction that he's going with with this

00:30:07

Then he also talks about how each an eogram type has a passion and a virtue says that your passion is the source of your suffering

00:30:13

That's kind of interesting

00:30:16

But it's also not something to be eliminated because that passion that source of your suffering according to the an eogram

00:30:23

when you learn to channel that

00:30:26

It becomes a virtue or a strength

00:30:30

And he's got this little acronym thing for how we're supposed to change called sore C own awaken and rewrite

00:30:38

See this is a much better acronym than whatever that one was from C. I can't even remember it

00:30:44

It failed you don't even need to remember it is terrible from the last book. Yeah, and he also

00:30:50

introduces the idea of a gear kanta

00:30:52

I don't know if I'm saying that right, but that is acting against

00:30:56

So the whole idea behind the end your gram is you identify your type you identify the passion the struggle the source of your suffering and

00:31:04

You act against it so you can express it

00:31:08

positively as a virtue is that a fair description of

00:31:13

The end of your gram to this point. I think so it's basically trying to figure out

00:31:20

You know he likes this analogy of the story which I'm totally with which is why he starts off with Donald Miller on

00:31:26

this particular chapter and how Donald Miller changed his own story to help lose weight blah blah blah but

00:31:32

he he does lay out how

00:31:35

each of these revolves around

00:31:38

Your story itself which is fitting because when he explains each of these he tells a story to begin with like that's that's how he

00:31:48

Explains each of these and it's even called that the nines story the threes story

00:31:54

So yep, it does make a lot of sense and it's easy to resonate with that. So yeah, I think you did well

00:32:00

Cool and I did not make this connection so you brought up the Donald Miller story again

00:32:05

I do remember that one and the story of how he changed his story lost weight

00:32:09

But that was a very small snippet and we got a much larger version of that story in hero on a mission right and

00:32:18

I guess

00:32:20

This is where we make our obligatory mention of how to read a book and how that's impacted us

00:32:26

And how we didn't write it well and probably should have you should probably go back and redo that one at some point

00:32:33

But that's one of those things where like I just

00:32:37

That mention of that story

00:32:39

Impacted me probably a lot different than someone who's just picking up this one and they're like oh yeah

00:32:44

You know a guy who lost a bunch of weight. That's cool

00:32:46

Like we had a very descriptive visual of that because Donald Miller is a very good storyteller himself and

00:32:53

We read that that book and so we have the context for for that story. It's kind of interesting to me

00:32:58

The longer we go with bookworm the more

00:33:03

The world's created by these books overlap

00:33:07

Yeah, and the more context you get just because you've read other things not even from the words that are on the page of the

00:33:15

The book that we're we're looking at so

00:33:17

And I and I just to piggyback on that I I would say that this is probably why

00:33:24

You know books and authors

00:33:27

like those of Ryan holiday tend to rank pretty well with us and it's probably because

00:33:34

You know in in holidays case he's so well

00:33:37

Read and so well versed in

00:33:41

What other books are out there that he kind of breaks out of that he doesn't tell the stories you hear in every other book

00:33:46

He goes and finds the stories you've not heard before so he does kind of break out of that which is very refreshing

00:33:52

At least for me

00:33:54

Since it's something new whereas it's in books like this like you were just saying with Donald Miller story

00:34:01

Well, we just read that whole thing so

00:34:03

This feels like a real small snippet and then you can put it in the context of

00:34:07

his entire story that we've already

00:34:10

Been through

00:34:12

So it does start to put a lot of pieces together, but that's also why we like the ones who don't fit the mold

00:34:17

That's an interesting brings up an interesting

00:34:21

question for me

00:34:23

because I am in the the process of

00:34:27

writing a book and I don't know exactly what it's going to I

00:34:32

Don't know if it's going to be self-published or if it's I'm gonna try to hook up with a publisher or whatever

00:34:37

But I know I need to to write this thing

00:34:40

So I've been thinking over like if I'm bringing in all these other

00:34:44

Stories and all these other dots how much do I share because I think the tendency is well

00:34:49

You have to assume people have never heard this before so I'm gonna tell the whole story of Donald Miller

00:34:53

Right, but that's not what Ian Morgan crown did. It's just like a very small

00:34:58

Piece of it and if you want, you know, you can go find that he doesn't even point you to the right direction

00:35:03

He doesn't say go read his hero on a mission book. I'm a Miller. Yeah

00:35:07

Leaves it you want more to figure it out. Yeah, which I kind of like that

00:35:13

So I think I'm gonna try to lean more that direction when I I write mine

00:35:18

please do

00:35:20

All right, the next

00:35:22

chapter here chapter three is

00:35:26

the eights story

00:35:29

So the eight story the eight is the challenger

00:35:33

The passion for the eight is according to Ian Morgan crown lust and the virtue is

00:35:39

Innocence

00:35:42

Yeah, I got a whole bunch of stuff here for each of these but I don't really want to just crank through all the different notes

00:35:47

I have here. I guess I would say

00:35:50

that the eight tends to develop a confidence in their own ability and

00:35:58

They tend to view

00:36:03

their strength and

00:36:05

Others weaknesses as the thing that is

00:36:08

Going to help them achieve success kind of the shadow side of the eight he talks about is that they could be

00:36:14

controlling of

00:36:17

Others and they have to realize that

00:36:19

vulnerability is not a weakness

00:36:23

Anything you want to add here to the eight story? I

00:36:28

would say

00:36:31

you know

00:36:33

Part of the issue I think maybe you're struggling with that

00:36:36

I'm gonna struggle with too is that there's so much of this that's done in story form and it's hard almost hard to summarize

00:36:42

What what is what is going on for each of these?

00:36:46

Stories that in this case the eight story

00:36:49

But there's a lot of little snippets that can come out so like in this case

00:36:54

For an eight conflict can actually become their way of expressing intimacy

00:36:59

Eights earn their anger honestly like there's all sorts of stuff that come with this

00:37:03

Eights can be fiercely protective and coach others on how they should fight harder

00:37:07

Like there's there's a lot of those little tiny bits that can come out. Yeah, but it doesn't really have a

00:37:12

A place that you can go that says oh here's all the things that would tell you about an eight like it's not a quick

00:37:18

summarization

00:37:20

process

00:37:21

But yes, I think overall it's tend to be a very strong big

00:37:27

what do I say I don't want to say powerful but a very confident and

00:37:32

Not domineering but forceful person I guess

00:37:38

But that's fair you get what I'm trying to say

00:37:41

What I do like about the approach to each of these stories is that he or each of these chapters is that he he does follow that sore

00:37:48

framework and so he kind of ends it with this is how to

00:37:54

Express this positively or this is kind of like where you want to go towards and so at the end of this chapter

00:38:00

He talks about how healthy eights care more about serving those who are following them then exercising power over them

00:38:07

so

00:38:09

Yeah, the eight is kind of

00:38:11

Born for conflict and they challenge everything

00:38:14

Hence the the name the challenge right?

00:38:17

Should you go into the next one?

00:38:20

Yes, yeah, I feel like we can kind of get through them. Then maybe it's been a little more time on our own results. Maybe let's do it

00:38:26

All right, so the next one is

00:38:29

the nine's story and

00:38:32

the nine is the peacemaker the

00:38:35

Passion for the peacemaker is sloth the virtue is right action and the nine basically believes it's up to them to maintain unity and avoid

00:38:45

conflict

00:38:47

The problem with this approach is that nine's often become invisible rather than stand up for their needs feelings and preferences

00:38:55

And they feel that what they want doesn't really matter

00:38:58

And this is kind of the negative expression of a a nine if you want to frame it that way

00:39:01

They don't want to threaten a connection with someone so they choose not to assert their own agenda

00:39:06

They can become passive aggressive as resentment grows over how they need to accommodate others just to keep peace and

00:39:17

I had my wife take this assessment as well. She is a a nine

00:39:22

Which was interesting because when she read the names she thought she was gonna be a

00:39:29

Four I think that's the the romantic

00:39:32

The one that tends to be

00:39:35

Individual I think according to the art she ti yeah, but according to right pretty Ian Morgan crown he frames it a little bit different

00:39:43

That's the one that tends to be really creative and so she's like oh yeah

00:39:46

Obviously that one is me but then when she took the assessment she got the result back for the nine. She's like actually that's spot on

00:39:53

Nice yeah, one of the there is a list here of like some of the

00:40:00

difficulties or struggles that each of these deal with and just a few of these that come from the nine

00:40:08

What I want doesn't really matter

00:40:11

Everything is okay. If there's no conflict. It's best not to be too affected by life. I'm a nice person who doesn't get angry

00:40:17

I'm okay as long as everyone else is okay. Like sometimes those phrases kind of help me now again

00:40:22

Some of those are more negative than positive of course

00:40:25

But sometimes it's easier for us to see the negatives in ourselves than the positives

00:40:28

So if that helps for you to resonate with one of them right

00:40:32

All right the next one chapter five. Oops. I did it. Sorry the one's story

00:40:38

This is the improver and

00:40:42

Their passion is anger

00:40:46

their virtue is

00:40:49

Serenity which is kind of a strange one I think

00:40:54

ones are

00:40:56

Typically remarkably mature as as children are seen that way

00:40:59

They tend to follow the rules and they set a good example, but those high standards eventually become a burden

00:41:07

They work hard to be perfect and wonder why others can't relate

00:41:11

They believe it's their job to make the world a better place

00:41:14

They right wrongs wherever they find them

00:41:18

And they have trouble recognizing that their perfectionism is the source of their unhappiness

00:41:25

I mean there's there's other stuff in here, but that's that's the gist of it

00:41:29

Yeah, they're they're always looking to improve themselves and to be good

00:41:34

Some of those phrases that are in this one what I should do is more important than what I want to do

00:41:40

I'll finally be happy when I'm perfect. I need to be good so people will like me

00:41:44

I need to be right all the time. I have to maintain control if I relax

00:41:47

everything will

00:41:49

Hit the fan the risk of being criticized or judge is not worth the shame and self-judgment

00:41:54

It could cause so you can kind of get a feel for like they they want to continually improve things but have control of things

00:42:03

Exactly

00:42:04

One of the things that they talk about that's important for ones at the end is that they need to make rest a priority

00:42:10

Schedule vacations days off and in downtime to recharge which is kind of interesting

00:42:16

They are fully alive to the need to be better tomorrow than they are today

00:42:22

The lifetime task of a one is to learn to occasionally ignore duty celebrate and enjoy life

00:42:28

All right the next one

00:42:32

is

00:42:33

the two and

00:42:35

the two is the helper

00:42:37

the passion of the two is pride and

00:42:41

the virtue of the two is humility and

00:42:47

They see themselves as the helpers they have trouble asking for help themselves because they don't want to appear selfish and

00:42:55

They end up putting others wants and needs above their own

00:43:01

While they're young they learn to disown their own needs and focus on helping those around them

00:43:05

They are people pleasers they tend to adjust their image to make people like them and

00:43:11

They gravitate towards meeting the needs of others in ways that reflect their own. Yeah, and some some more of these phrases

00:43:18

My needs are so great. They will overpower anyone who sees them

00:43:22

People like people who are always cheery and who flatter them people who know me should already know what I need

00:43:28

If I express my needs others will reject and abandon me this kind of to me

00:43:32

That's kind of strange like if you're still willing to help someone else

00:43:36

Wouldn't you be willing to ask for help so if somebody else could have that same feeling?

00:43:40

Anyway, I probably want too much winning the approval of others is key to my feeling

00:43:45

Wordy, I guess I guess one of the things that kind of stands out to me is there so much like externalizing of your own worth with that

00:43:52

So I could see how that could get to be pretty difficult

00:43:55

All right, the next one is the three

00:43:59

the three is

00:44:02

the performer the passion of the per of the three is

00:44:06

Deceit and the virtue is authenticity

00:44:10

which is a little bit strange when you

00:44:15

first hear that I will add that the

00:44:18

Typology podcast episode that I listened to I mentioned that was a three and so having listened to that

00:44:24

I see this a lot better now than having just read the book itself

00:44:28

basically

00:44:31

The the story that was mentioned on the the podcast was this person was really successful early on in their life

00:44:38

And then they just did everything that they could to maintain that external picture in people's eyes

00:44:43

So early in life from the book now three is confirmed to the expectations of the important people in their life

00:44:50

They tend to struggle with feeling like they can't be loved for who they are

00:44:53

It's all based on what they do

00:44:54

They can feel like their dreams don't matter. They have to follow their family's expectations

00:44:58

They want to make their parents proud, but they don't realize it when they do

00:45:02

one of the stories you mentioned in the book that kind of hit me was I think it was Jeff Goins

00:45:07

Was a three and he's talking to his dad and he's like I just want you to be proud of something that I do his dad's like

00:45:14

I'm proud of everything that you've done

00:45:17

Yeah, and a very short story about that that really

00:45:22

Hit me

00:45:24

I'm not tipping my hat by the way to the one that I am. This is not me

00:45:28

Yeah, it is interesting too because

00:45:32

You know as I mentioned he does tell a story for each of these

00:45:36

Do you know as he gives last names on all of them like you could go hunt these people down with a

00:45:43

search

00:45:45

And and figure out kind of their background and such

00:45:48

Normally people try to obscure

00:45:51

The identity of these folks, but not at all here. He's got full names. You can go learn all about him

00:45:58

So anyway for the threes some more of these phrases

00:46:02

I'd be happier if I were more successful if I'm not number one. I'm nothing the world rewards doing not being I'm

00:46:10

Valuable when others admire me failure isn't an option if you're not a somebody you're nobody

00:46:14

It's okay to wear a mask to win over different types of people

00:46:17

But I think you know the the thing that probably stands out the most to me about this one is the whole deceit versus authenticity piece that you were talking about

00:46:26

Like okay, I value authenticity so much that I'm going to deceive people in order to maintain that

00:46:34

Yeah, it just seems kind of backwards, but yet that's

00:46:38

That sort of thing happens with all of these. I'm not just calling out the threes here

00:46:43

Like there are a lot of those for each of these types. I

00:46:47

Wonder if the reason he uses the last names is

00:46:51

Because they have appeared as guests on his podcast

00:46:55

Because the podcast has been around for quite a while

00:46:59

I was pretty impressed by the number of episodes that they had in the back look

00:47:05

I didn't count them all up, but there must have been hundreds

00:47:07

So it wouldn't surprise me if he has relationships with these people that he's had him on the podcast and sure

00:47:13

The podcasts are always like this episode with this person where the last name is

00:47:19

Yeah, published obviously there. Yeah, that makes sense

00:47:23

But yeah, this is a this is an interesting one

00:47:26

Like sevens and eights threes can be aggressive in getting what they want. They tend to be highly competitive

00:47:32

They're not sure how to respond to the emotional needs of others because they can be out of touch with their own

00:47:37

They tend to equate their worth with their accomplishments. They struggle with work-life balance

00:47:42

they always feel on and

00:47:44

This is the point in the book where I was like I need to listen to this typology podcast

00:47:51

That was actually an action item I jotted down

00:47:54

But I couldn't wait until after we recorded so I've actually started listening to it already and it's pretty good nice

00:48:00

It's uh

00:48:02

It's probably not like a lot of the other podcasts that I listened to and I'm guessing a lot of the listeners of bookworm

00:48:11

Would listen to

00:48:13

It's it's really it's he's got a producer that he works with so it's like very polished and kind of like

00:48:23

NPR style

00:48:25

But not all the way that way and then also I would say it's got tinges of like your your standard productivity podcast stuff in there

00:48:34

But it's yeah, it it's a

00:48:38

It's a good mix. I feel and lands in a sweet spot of like this feels like a unique sort of thing and

00:48:44

Very entertaining the couple of episodes that I've I've listened to one and I've started listening to another

00:48:50

So it'll probably stick around for me just till I get bored with any of Graham at least

00:48:55

Give it a month and you'll be done. Yeah, we'll see we'll see

00:49:01

All right, the next one is

00:49:04

the fours story and

00:49:07

The four is the romantic according to Ian Morgan crown anyway

00:49:12

the passion is envy the virtue is equanimity and

00:49:16

Fours feel like they don't fit in when they're young

00:49:21

They usually feel unseen or misunderstood and by the way a lot of the notes and the stories that he shares in these different chapters

00:49:27

As I'm sharing this information. They all start with like when they're young because typically that's when you sort of form your

00:49:32

Your type

00:49:35

Which is kind of interesting to me. It's not like you're just born this this way

00:49:38

You are kind of our product of your environment and if you have these like traumatic things that happen to you then

00:49:42

Working through them a certain way could end up making you lean towards a certain type

00:49:49

But again going all the way back to the beginning you have the power to change your story

00:49:52

So just because you grew up before it doesn't mean you're stuck in a forward like you can be whatever you want

00:49:57

You just need the motivation to live it out basically

00:50:00

For is tend to pursue loss law from a vague feeling that they were abandoned and that it was their fault

00:50:05

They regularly switch interest or jump clicks. They protect and or project an image

00:50:11

That of specialness or uniqueness in order to feel appreciated

00:50:14

They feel things more deeply than other people they feel like a misfit and they always find the other misfits

00:50:21

They can be moody or unpredictable full of creative ideas, but have trouble following throughout them

00:50:28

Tend to be depressed and irritable when not creating they don't shy away from the big questions

00:50:32

They willingly engage with the heavy stuff and can sit out anything fake easily and seek authenticity

00:50:38

Yeah, and some more of these phrases here is probably my fault when a relationship goes south I

00:50:44

Feel things more deeply than other people. You kind of just mention that one life will always be vaguely disappointing

00:50:49

Pretty cheery I'm magically special because I'm defective. I'll be abandoned

00:50:54

It's interesting at those two are back-to-back in this list

00:50:57

I will be denied the love I seek. I will never be understood. I can't be ordinary

00:51:01

There's a lot of conflicting things in this one as well, but this is one where

00:51:07

In the ready that you and I took the re our H E T I they call it the individual list

00:51:14

I don't know why they had would have different names is this not a normalized thing?

00:51:17

I guess I don't know that any of Graham that well, but it seems strange that they'd have two different names for it

00:51:22

Yeah, good question. I did not dig into this, but my guess is that

00:51:30

There are people who have tried to update it and

00:51:35

Kind of like a

00:51:38

You know different Bible translation, you know make it more modern. Oh sure. I will guess that's what that's what Ian's feels like to me

00:51:45

Yeah, yeah, and that does make sense. I know this is one that

00:51:50

Thankfully, honestly, I was I was a bit nervous when I got to this one because he calls out very early on that he's a four

00:51:56

Yeah, and typically when you have something like this and the author obviously has to identify

00:52:02

themselves as which one they are and

00:52:04

Normally when you would get to the one that they are they spend a little more time on it because they like it

00:52:10

They resonate it and on with it, and it's theirs

00:52:12

He didn't do that. So I was grateful that he kind of just kept the same approach

00:52:18

He didn't you know make it sound like it's the one that you should have and this is the one you should be because I'm this one

00:52:24

Like he doesn't take that approach like some people do so I did appreciate that he at least kept it on an even keel there

00:52:31

Yeah, that sounds ridiculous, but it's totally true that it is a lot of other places

00:52:37

Yeah, all right the next one is

00:52:40

the five and

00:52:44

the five is the investigator the passion for the five is

00:52:50

Averus not sure if I'm saying that right, but basically it is

00:52:54

Immodurate desire for wealth is the dictionary definition

00:52:59

the virtue is

00:53:02

non-attachment and

00:53:04

When we get into some of this other stuff you'll see why the Averus fits they tend to seek mastery and they love learning

00:53:12

They tend to be drained by prolonged social interaction have a natural tendency towards attachment isolation and analysis and four or five

00:53:20

knowledge is power

00:53:22

They have the thickest personal boundaries of any type as

00:53:25

Kids they can see mature beyond their years. They don't like being over dependent on others

00:53:30

They can grow up isolated by their circumstances or families

00:53:34

They feel emotions, but tend to let them go without fully processing them

00:53:39

They can others can find fives eccentric or odd which they use as justification for self isolation

00:53:46

They can collect a lot of knowledge, but may have trouble applying it and essentially that is

00:53:53

The whole goal of the five is to get more information to get more knowledge believing that that is going to lead to more success

00:54:01

So you can kind of see how like a lot of entrepreneurs probably fit into the the five category

00:54:08

It's interesting because as I was reading through some of these there were some of my kids there

00:54:12

I was like this is totally what they are some of them. I had a little bit more trouble figuring out

00:54:17

When I read this to Toby, he's like, oh, yeah, that's me

00:54:22

Yeah, so the the fives here's some of the false beliefs as he calls these that have been reading

00:54:32

It's safer to observe than to participate

00:54:35

If I open an up if I open up to relationships people demand more than I have or want to give if I'm spontaneous or

00:54:43

Express my feelings in the moment others will disapprove and I'll feel embarrassed and out of control the more

00:54:48

I know the safer I'll be so I guess that does kind of fit into the whole, you know

00:54:52

Let me learn as much as I possibly can information is power concept so

00:54:57

Data people probably fit this really well, right? Yeah, this is not me by the way

00:55:06

spoiler alert

00:55:08

Chapter 10 is the the sixes story

00:55:11

The the six is the loyalist the passion for the six is fear the virtue is courage

00:55:17

They have a deep desire to uphold fairness justice and traditional values. They're reliable dependable

00:55:23

They uphold what is right and good

00:55:26

They panic without safety growing up and they live in a constant state of anxiety

00:55:31

These are the people who kind of always look for the worst case scenario

00:55:34

They tend to be really loyal to who and what can

00:55:38

Can offer them protection and security?

00:55:42

They're quick to heed warnings from overly protective adults

00:55:46

and he mentions that there are

00:55:50

two kinds of

00:55:53

Anxiety I think that's anxiety

00:55:58

Or stress, but basically there's there's phobic and counter phobic and phobic is where you assume everything is dangerous and you avoid it

00:56:04

Counter phobic is where you train to meet the challenges and overcome the worst case scenarios in your head

00:56:10

And that that's obviously the one that you want to get to if you if you are six

00:56:14

Yeah, the outline seems correct to me by the way chapter 10 is six

00:56:20

I don't know what your mind-node file looks like

00:56:24

Anyway, some of the the the false believes the faulty beliefs of a six

00:56:29

I'll be safe if I prepare for the worst if I worry and plan enough everything will turn out, okay

00:56:34

It's hard to not doubt or to trust people when so many of them have hidden agendas

00:56:39

Can't trust myself to make good decisions. I'll always be filled with doubt and worry

00:56:43

I won't be safe or certain unless I have something or someone outside myself to trust and be loyal to

00:56:49

So again, this one's very external

00:56:53

Reliant I would say and that they're dependent on

00:56:56

Someone else or something else that they're remaining loyal to thus the loyalist title

00:57:02

So yeah, that's that's kind of another external one

00:57:06

Yeah, he also mentions that there are more sixes than any other anyagram type

00:57:14

And there's a couple of these where he offers some practical advice

00:57:20

We skipped over the one for the five which no what was it was

00:57:23

Gotta find it now there was one where he specifically said that they should practice gratitude in

00:57:29

The the six he mentions that you should limit the information that you consume on a daily basis and

00:57:35

I think this is good advice whether you are

00:57:39

Six or any other type, but it's kind of cool to see those things sprinkled in there as like practical things that you could do

00:57:46

right now and as opposed to just a list of all of the

00:57:51

Productivity advice and all the life hacks that whenever you read those things you're like, oh, I should create this habit

00:57:57

And I should do this thing and I should do that. Yep

00:57:59

This was a better approach

00:58:02

I felt like it's like you know of all that stuff that you could do the one that's really gonna move the needle for you is is this one

00:58:08

So I I like that

00:58:10

Yeah, and one of those he calls out here for the sixes is that

00:58:15

The way he puts it most sixes eventually recognize that they must develop wellness plans and coping strategies if they're ever going to enjoy their lives

00:58:22

And I guess that's because that again the external dependency there

00:58:26

So if you're going to be loyal to things like you have to have your own coping strategies in order to

00:58:32

handle things when

00:58:36

Someone else isn't quite as loyal as you are

00:58:38

right, right

00:58:41

All right, the next one is the seven

00:58:46

and the seven is the

00:58:48

enthusiast

00:58:49

the passion for the seven is gluttony the virtue is sobriety and

00:58:53

This one I jotted down a lot. I love some of these definitions. He's got here says sevens are caffeinated from birth

00:59:01

Yes, everyone loves sevens because they bring joy to everything

00:59:05

They prefer to suffer privately Lynette then let anyone see that they hurt

00:59:10

They have selective memory and focus on the best they look to take care of themselves with new adventures and positive distractions

00:59:16

They don't like being bored trapped or locked into a routine. They have an insatiable appetite and zest for life

00:59:22

In adolescence they find themselves a center of attention. Others want to be with them

00:59:26

They're spontaneous outrageous and innovative and finding ways to be the center of attention

00:59:31

To the first to think that the action is elsewhere

00:59:35

Their contagious energy cannot be suppressed

00:59:39

Most people cannot keep up with a seven and aren't willing to try

00:59:44

They need options and possibilities. They get frustrated just hanging out and doing nothing and

00:59:50

When I read this description I

00:59:54

Showed it to my wife and she's like, oh, that's Malachi

00:59:58

And it was interesting because there is some tension

01:00:06

Between my wife and Malachi specifically because we call him million mile an hour Malachi

01:00:11

He's just he's up at seven every single day

01:00:15

Because that's the time we have said is like you you can't get up before this

01:00:20

Right, but every day on the dot he comes out of the room at seven because he doesn't want to waste a minute

01:00:28

living life just yes and

01:00:32

It can get exhausting for my wife to keep up with him and it comes across sometimes

01:00:37

He's like he's he's always looking ahead to the next thing and it comes across as like he's not listening or paying attention

01:00:43

He's not but it's not because he's a bad kid or he's an act of rebellion. He's just

01:00:49

Constantly looking for the next new thing

01:00:52

Yeah, and because he his mind moves so fast

01:00:57

It's it can be frustrating. He's like well. I just told you you need to do this first

01:01:01

Yes, but I was focused on this other thing. So I have no idea what you said. Yeah, exactly

01:01:07

Alright some of these mistaken beliefs of a seven I

01:01:12

Can't endure feeling bored trapped locked into a routine or FOMO if you're missing out

01:01:17

I must have multiple escape options. I can't depend on anyone for anything especially for supporting me when I'm in pain

01:01:24

Charm is the best first line of defense. No one can be trusted to satisfy me. I'm on my own

01:01:29

What I really want can't be found in the present moment or inside myself. It's always outside in the future. So

01:01:35

very

01:01:38

Fast-moving I would say as you're calling out. Yep

01:01:42

All right, the last chapter is

01:01:46

chapter 12

01:01:48

the larger story and

01:01:52

This is just a couple of like closing thoughts here

01:01:56

He mentions and this is actually where the religious part comes out. So skip this chapter if you're not that's off-putting to you

01:02:04

Because he's really just reiterating again that we are all broken in some way

01:02:09

Nobody's perfect and he says that when we let God put us back together

01:02:14

The result is something that is better than new and uses the story of that Japanese pottery that is broken and then like remade

01:02:20

and you can see all the cracks and

01:02:22

Most of the time you would think like well if something is cracked then it's worthless or it's devalued

01:02:29

And he said that no this specific type of Japanese pottery the fact that you can see all the cracks and they've been meticulous

01:02:37

And putting it back together. That's actually the thing that makes it valuable

01:02:40

And I feel like that's a pretty cool way to wrap this all up

01:02:45

It's like you're not gonna be perfect. We've all got these cracks

01:02:49

So just own them do the best that you can and you'll come out better on the other side

01:02:54

Yeah, I like you're saying like this is where the spiritual religious side

01:03:00

comes out. I don't feel like this is

01:03:03

Like from a Christian stance and from a biblical stance. I feel like it's fairly well done

01:03:10

I don't feel like there's anything I would argue with him on theologically here

01:03:15

That's not the point of this podcast at all, but the

01:03:18

The thing that is interesting to me is that he went so deep in it and it was so

01:03:23

Point blank like here's here's how this your story like the number you're that you are your story

01:03:30

This is how it fits into the bigger

01:03:32

story of God and

01:03:34

That's not a place I expected him to go at all and yet here we are and I'm not

01:03:40

Arguing with that at all. It was kind of refreshing to me because we don't normally see that in a book

01:03:46

I appreciate that in the in this one, but again

01:03:49

Most people I don't know where you would sit so not I don't think I knew that the Enneagram had kind of a spiritual Christian

01:03:57

undertone to it. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you said earlier, but

01:04:02

If that's true then this totally makes sense. I just haven't put all those pieces together yet

01:04:09

I don't think it's that explicit in the nature of the Enneagram itself, but I think

01:04:16

Episcopal priest so

01:04:19

Yeah

01:04:21

Overlap of all the different things kind of like my approach to faith-based productivity

01:04:25

No, it's it's who I am and so it's going to color my perspective

01:04:28

The stuff in that that realm that's my interpretation of this last chapter

01:04:33

But I could be wrong. I mean I really don't know enough about

01:04:38

The Enneagram itself the RHE Ti that we mentioned that we both took and we'll get into our results here in a second

01:04:45

This is something that is put together by the Enneagram Institute and reading through this like I've got a PDF

01:04:52

Which is 18 pages long explaining my results. I don't see anything

01:04:57

religious in in here

01:05:00

you know, so I

01:05:02

think that's just

01:05:04

Dearest friends coming. Yeah, his lens on how he how he

01:05:08

applies this stuff, which I agree like I

01:05:12

Think that's kind of cool, but other people take it or leave it

01:05:16

I wouldn't put I wouldn't disregard the rest of this book just because of that last chapter if that is off-putting to you

01:05:23

I think there's some some good stuff here like I said

01:05:26

I picked this book not knowing that he wasn't a Episcopal priest just because it seemed like

01:05:32

Enneagram resource that a lot of people were talking about and I wanted to understand more about the Enneagram itself

01:05:38

So yeah, it makes sense, but yeah interesting way to interesting way to end it

01:05:42

Should we talk about our results now?

01:05:45

Sure, this will be fun

01:05:47

All right, why don't you go first since I've been kicking off most of these sections today, okay?

01:05:53

I can do that so I

01:05:56

Need to preface this with and I'll give my numbers here because you'll this will help help you understand why I'm still kind of like

01:06:05

Not a hundred percent certain what I would call myself right now. It's between two so

01:06:10

per the test

01:06:12

the top three I had as a seven a four and a nine and

01:06:17

The names for those the seven is the enthusiast Malachi when we were just talking about

01:06:23

The four would be the individualist according to the ready or the romantic according to Ian Morgan

01:06:28

Crohn and then the nine is the

01:06:30

Peacemaker the numbers on these this is why I get a little bit off the the seven is a 23

01:06:37

That's what I that was my score for the seven was a 23 the four was a 21 and the nine was a 21

01:06:43

Hmm. Okay, so they're all

01:06:45

right there and

01:06:48

part of my

01:06:51

eh on that is that as I was going through these we had like two phrases and you had to pick between the two right and

01:06:57

I don't know if it's just the way my brain works or what it was

01:07:01

But there were a lot of those where you'd have to pick like I have this tendency between these three things and the second option

01:07:09

Would have another three things but it's like well

01:07:11

I'm kind of two of each of those and I like it's a toss-up one way or the other and I had probably 10 or 15 of those

01:07:19

Questions that I felt like it was a toss-up

01:07:21

And I get why you know they force you to pick one of the other they don't give you both

01:07:25

I don't want them to give me a both on that because I understand that that can screw up the test

01:07:29

but I'm also aware that because of that I

01:07:32

Can't be too specific on those exact numbers. So that said

01:07:37

according to this test I would be a seven and

01:07:40

As I read through the seven like the fast-pacedness the hold on a hold on a second because I'm

01:07:48

On the top of the first page

01:07:50

I'm you probably says the same thing says your highest score your second highest score

01:07:54

And I actually got a tie between my two second highest scores as well

01:07:58

And then it says your primary any grand personality type is most likely the highest of these scores and almost certainly among the highest two or three

01:08:04

So my question to you would be

01:08:07

Going through and reading these descriptions

01:08:09

Which one do you kind of gravitate towards which one resonates with you?

01:08:14

And that's that's kind of where I'm getting because I know that with like the seven that they're putting at the top of that list like yes

01:08:20

there's a

01:08:21

large amount of that that I would

01:08:23

resonate with but I feel like the second one here with the fours is

01:08:27

Probably there. This is where I want to know about like this wings thing because I know that that can like

01:08:34

There's this but then you could also be like one off on the side and then that tends to look like a seven

01:08:41

Like I'm aware of that out there as well. So I'm not sure what that I don't know that side very well

01:08:47

that said between the seven four and nine I

01:08:50

Think I would put it somewhere in that four range. I'm fairly confident on that

01:08:56

But I haven't had a chance to work through this in detail with my wife quite yet

01:09:00

And I feel like whenever she looks through these she's like yep that one. She's probably gonna point it out right away

01:09:07

So that's that's my assumption. So right now. I'm leaning towards this is like I'm a four is what I would say

01:09:14

So anyway, there's that if I had to pick one for you

01:09:18

I would have picked a four because some of these things I jotted down totally applied yeah like sure do the creative things that

01:09:25

Feed your soul. I've known you long enough and seen you do enough creative projects that like when something you don't like doing it anymore

01:09:33

You just stop doing it

01:09:35

Absolutely to the next one. Yeah, it's a hundred percent what I do which is

01:09:40

Honestly that particular character trait is one that has me like locking in on the four more than anything else like I get the whole high speed

01:09:47

thing of a seven, but

01:09:49

like I think that's I

01:09:51

Think the seven like we were talking about the high speed piece

01:09:55

That's probably the ADHD that that comes out in that so it's not necessarily a typical

01:10:04

View that's where I think like the four probably is what it is

01:10:08

But because of the flavor of the ADHD it has like that tendency to morph into a seven

01:10:15

Sometimes but not always so I could definitely see how that plays out. So it's good to know you think I'm a four awesome. Thanks, Mike

01:10:23

I also think that

01:10:25

Going back to that description, you know do the creative things that feed your soul and the emphasis on the creating and

01:10:33

Again, this is like how I got connected with you has always been your creative projects

01:10:37

But I think that need to create for a four

01:10:42

maybe appears

01:10:44

Like a seven as well because people are like oh he's constantly doing things

01:10:49

But really it's just you constantly expressing things that you have to because that's how you find meaning in the the day to day

01:10:57

It's I have to make things. It's true because I know that

01:11:01

Like okay, so look at look at a lot of things I tend to do so I tend to write a lot of code and I make things for myself

01:11:06

Right, but when I go home

01:11:09

It's very common for me to spend time like building random things. I gotta make stuff with my hands as well

01:11:16

So I'm regularly trying to dream up how to make things like and it's silly stuff

01:11:21

Like how do I get the door to the chicken run to open without me?

01:11:24

Have to crawl underneath

01:11:25

Inside the run to get to it like can I get some sort of rope mechanism over here to do this for me?

01:11:30

And how do I get it to hold down so that critters don't get in all these things like that?

01:11:34

That's like right up my alley. I'll do that all day long

01:11:37

So that that's where I think like the four piece can

01:11:40

Come out, but again like you're saying like it

01:11:43

In certain instances that can make it look like other

01:11:47

Stories which is probably true for all of them

01:11:52

That that was the part that I learned just in reading these test results like okay

01:11:58

They've got me at a seven at the top. It's possible. I'm tied with a nine off the four

01:12:03

But at the same time like I feel like everybody's probably going to have something like that whenever you take these tests

01:12:10

Yeah, there's there's always gonna be one or two others like oh, yeah

01:12:13

I do like half of those things but it's because the one that you're on

01:12:17

Like in my case the four like it can look like one of the other ones

01:12:21

So you have to keep in mind like your internal feelings on that like what is your motivator for it?

01:12:27

Not necessarily the actions that come out of it if that makes sense what I'm saying. Mm-hmm. It does

01:12:32

So you go for now we're gonna say Joseph or I

01:12:36

Don't know what to do with that right now, but there we go

01:12:40

All right, do you want to try to guess what what I am

01:12:47

Off the top of my head I was going to guess a three three interesting

01:12:54

okay

01:12:56

Not a three that is on my results number four on the list, okay?

01:13:03

So I guess technically there's a possibility that I would be a three

01:13:07

Not likely though. Yeah, so my second and third one that I tied second highest score was a tie between type six and type eight

01:13:15

So the loyalist and the challenger and I can definitely see

01:13:19

flavors of those in

01:13:22

my experiences

01:13:24

But the highest score and this is definitely the one that resonates with me. Okay is the one

01:13:31

Okay, I am a reformer

01:13:34

And there's one thing specifically here

01:13:40

It says one of the lifetime tasks of the ones is to learn to occasionally ignore duty celebrate and enjoy life I

01:13:45

Put like a hand-raising emoji because that is me

01:13:50

yeah, I

01:13:52

Feel like the there's one of these which is the loyalist right but this is how the the loyalist

01:13:59

Is expressed for me is like well

01:14:02

I said I was going to do this and so I'm going to do it even if it destroys me and

01:14:07

Over the years I've had to learn to say you know what? It's okay if the thing doesn't get done

01:14:13

Yeah, but I would

01:14:16

You know stay up all night to get the thing done if I said said to somebody that I was going to do it

01:14:21

and typically it was with other people you know making a

01:14:24

A commitment to somebody else the commitments to myself or as big a deal

01:14:30

but the other thing that really

01:14:32

Illuminate was illuminating to me

01:14:35

Was the need to make rest a priority?

01:14:37

to schedule vacation days off and downtime to recharge that

01:14:42

It's not exactly a vacation and it's a very different type of energy in some ways it is a

01:14:51

Form of rest, but not really I do feel like this is the whole idea behind the personal retreat stuff though

01:14:57

it's not that I can disconnect from it and

01:15:00

Not do anything and fill my tank, but it's just getting away from the day-to-day and

01:15:08

thinking about things and that clarity is the I don't know maybe it's artificial rest right but it's

01:15:15

physically taking a break and

01:15:18

mentally

01:15:20

understanding what is the most important thing and the most important thing is obviously the

01:15:26

The mission or the purpose that the one is going to achieve is going to attach to like I'm gonna make the world a better place

01:15:32

impact as many people as I can

01:15:34

That's totally me

01:15:37

out of

01:15:39

out of curiosity how close were the other two the six and the eight

01:15:43

They were pretty close not even close so the score for type one was a 26 and then 22 was the

01:15:50

The tie okay. Yeah, cuz I think you know the eight is probably one. I was

01:15:55

Like that would have been my second guess

01:15:57

Cuz I know your your stances with conflict and stuff my wife is an eight

01:16:01

So we've we've figured a lot of that out, but that's that's probably where I would have put you as

01:16:09

Like my second guess, but yeah, I think I could see the one I definitely could like the improver slash reformer

01:16:17

Like I could see that pretty easy. It seems like you know whenever you get a mission in mind like

01:16:22

Nothing else matters until that's done if it's ever done like that's that's where you tend to go and like nothing's gonna stop you from

01:16:29

Achieving that so I can see that one pretty easy

01:16:32

Which is maybe this is why you and I get a well get along so well

01:16:35

You're on a mission and I can dream of ways to get there

01:16:38

probably

01:16:41

So when did you take the assessment did you take it before you read the book or after?

01:16:46

Before okay, I thought you said you took it before I

01:16:49

Intentionally took it after because I wanted to read through all of these and see which ones resonated with me and

01:16:56

I saw like different things in the one, but that's not what I would have picked

01:17:01

For me prior to taking the assessment. I

01:17:04

Like you I probably would have seen like the the eight or the the six

01:17:08

It's interesting because even like the peacemaker. I recognize that there were

01:17:12

the nine like that that's

01:17:15

There were things in there that resonated like I remembered specific things from my my childhood where I ended up

01:17:21

Playing the peacemaker role quite a bit, but I think that's partly because

01:17:25

family dynamics and my dad was probably an eight or a three yeah

01:17:31

But so like when I got done reading the book

01:17:35

I'm like I have no idea what I am I can identify with pretty much all of these even though type nine the peacemaker that the score

01:17:41

I got for that was a six like that's the last one on the list. Yeah

01:17:44

Yeah, so I tried to guess you know what I thought I was gonna be and then I took the assessment

01:17:49

And then I looked at the results assessment. I'm like huh not what I expected but totally agree with that

01:17:55

Yeah, yeah, no

01:17:57

I took it before because I know that I have this tendency of if I know what some of the results can be I

01:18:03

can sometimes

01:18:06

accidentally color the

01:18:08

Results by the way that I answer questions, so I didn't want that

01:18:11

I wanted it to be as true as I could so if I take this beforehand and I don't know what's coming I'll be more prone to

01:18:17

Having more accurate results, so I think that worked out. Well, it's interesting you point out like the one that's at the bottom

01:18:24

An eight is at the very bottom with me, but I'm tied at the bottom for a one

01:18:28

So one and eight are tied at the bottom, so there you go

01:18:31

We're like on opposite ends of this spectrum here

01:18:36

interesting

01:18:38

All right should we talk about action items?

01:18:41

Sure, what you got I?

01:18:43

Have two action items and one of them I did already that was to listen to typology

01:18:50

The other one was to check out an app called daily oh

01:18:56

I forget which type that was associated with it wasn't one of my major ones

01:19:03

But that sounded like an interesting application

01:19:08

so I'm gonna

01:19:10

Take a look at that. I'm not making any promises about using it every day or anything like that, but I I think it is

01:19:18

like a

01:19:20

mood logging sort of a thing

01:19:22

Which I've sort of been on the lookout for something like that for a while

01:19:28

I've used mood notes in the past and it's really cool, but I kind of don't think it's being actively developed anymore

01:19:37

So I want to find something that is gonna be around for a while

01:19:41

I

01:19:43

Don't want to add something like that to

01:19:45

Obsidian it feels like a bridge too far to get that data in there as part of the the daily note

01:19:52

But if I have something on my my phone because I do things on my phone that are part of my habits and routines like practicing Spanish every day

01:20:01

so

01:20:02

This could be something that I would stack on top of that habit

01:20:06

potentially

01:20:08

So those are my two which ones

01:20:10

Do you have or do you have any action items? I guess yeah, I have I have a couple

01:20:15

One of which is also listen to typology

01:20:19

I don't know how far it's gonna go, but I'm put when I get there

01:20:21

I'm gonna pick the latest one listen to that and see if it's something I want to hold on to

01:20:24

Just because I think it's mentioned in almost every single chapter

01:20:28

I know you had said you weren't sure how often you talked about it. It was a lot

01:20:31

I think like that was just my per perspective

01:20:34

So that's one. I want at least attempt an episode of that. We'll see how it goes

01:20:37

the other one is and

01:20:40

This is me

01:20:42

Before and I'd written this down beforehand, but I was kind of assuming I was gonna land on a four talking through it with you

01:20:47

I'm kind of more into that

01:20:49

but I had written down to

01:20:52

Focus more on my creativity and I'm not real sure what that means right now

01:20:58

I'm hoping that this next week of me being gone out on a lake and

01:21:03

Having a chance to just take a break, which I don't do well

01:21:06

I'm hoping that can kind of help me crystallize that a little bit, but I'm trying to figure out how

01:21:13

Making things is something I can make more regular. I know that I do some stuff online

01:21:18

But and I do a lot of things with my hands, but I I've not

01:21:23

I've not really given myself permission to make that a focal point partly because it feels like it's a splurge

01:21:29

Like it feels like I'm indulging in something that I shouldn't be

01:21:32

But that's okay. I just need to learn that that's okay

01:21:36

But again, I'm not real sure what that's gonna look like so I'm trying to basically nail down

01:21:41

How do I allow myself to be creative?

01:21:43

more often and and make that a regular thing that I can

01:21:48

Kick out so again

01:21:50

I'm not real sure what that looks like quite yet, but it's something I need to explore explicitly

01:21:54

So is that that's what I got those two

01:21:57

All right, so then style and rating

01:22:02

My book I will go first

01:22:04

I really like the style of this book

01:22:09

It's very different and in a lot of ways. It's not at all what I expected

01:22:16

But that is largely based on what the Enneagram

01:22:22

actually is I feel

01:22:25

because I

01:22:27

Kind of thought it was a standard assessment and it was gonna give you

01:22:31

This is the results and this is what you are

01:22:35

I'm kind of glad that it didn't

01:22:37

I'm kind of glad that the approach is basically well

01:22:40

You're probably one of these but attached to the story that resonates with you the most

01:22:45

So that's that's cool

01:22:48

Ian is a great storyteller

01:22:50

I really like the whole framing of this book around the stories and the broken stories and not trying to hide the imperfections

01:22:58

I feel

01:22:59

That is something that came up on a lot of the different types is

01:23:03

the tendency to try to do that in different ways and I totally agree with them that that's unhealthy and the first step is

01:23:12

Just owning that stuff and working through it not being afraid to tackle the the hard questions

01:23:20

He's got some great stories. I think he's got a great writing style

01:23:26

It's borderline humorous. I would say

01:23:29

It's fair. I feel like he's not trying to be funny

01:23:35

So it doesn't come across as like awkward or dry just certain things, you know one line here and there

01:23:41

It's kind of Donald Miller ask but not to that level

01:23:47

So

01:23:51

I'm having trouble picking a number for this though. I think I'm gonna go 4.0 just because

01:23:55

I'm not sure I

01:23:58

Wouldn't I would guess that there are

01:24:01

Probably better resources for the Enneagram out there though. I

01:24:06

Like the stories that he uses

01:24:10

But I also feel like the way the chapters are framed if you were just looking for like more information on the types themselves

01:24:21

The format is maybe not the best way to do that

01:24:25

and maybe that's the

01:24:27

Elements of the five, you know showing up there, but like just give me the list right

01:24:32

He had one list at the beginning of the different types and then the passion and the virtue

01:24:37

But I feel like the whole idea behind the Enneagram is is right for that kind of thing

01:24:43

Like give me a summary table at the end of each one of these

01:24:48

Chapters not saying you needed to do that, but there's an opportunity to take that approach and you know

01:24:54

Maybe that would have been better. I don't know

01:24:56

But overall, I'm really glad that I I read it really glad that I took the assessment

01:25:01

Still kind of bummed that I didn't get a code to take his by reading his book

01:25:06

But whatever I'll get over that

01:25:09

It is kind of weird like there is no official

01:25:13

Enneagram assessment so when you go search for one

01:25:16

You'll get like a whole bunch of different

01:25:19

Results and it's kind of confusing like which one you should start with

01:25:24

So we'll be links to the RH ETI that you and I both took in the show notes for this as well as the the

01:25:32

Any app which is the the only decent iOS one that I I saw but

01:25:37

Yeah 4.0. I would recommend it

01:25:40

but I

01:25:43

Think there's a possibility that maybe if someone were to say what is the absolute best any gram resource out there

01:25:49

This maybe isn't it?

01:25:51

Yeah, I know that his writing style is very interesting in that I love that he would tell a story

01:25:57

I love that he had kind of a framework that he worked through for each type with the SOAR

01:26:02

SOAR and I think that that's

01:26:05

Probably the best way to come at this like you got to have some systematic way of coming through these

01:26:13

It absolutely drove me nuts that it wasn't in line with chapter numbers and in order

01:26:18

Completely irrational I get it but it drove me absolutely bonkers

01:26:24

Like I would look at the like I kept getting like the numbers screwed up in

01:26:27

My mind because I got them screwed up on the episode

01:26:32

Yes, like we would get to the forest story, but it's chapter 8

01:26:35

So then like I translated it to it was the 8 that I was reading about but he kept saying 4 and it's like why are you talking about 4

01:26:41

Ron 8 no, that's chapter 8 like it just completely messed with me

01:26:45

Way more than it probably should have I just I couldn't like the number thing was it driving me nuts?

01:26:51

And I couldn't let that one go so I have to say that that's a ding on it

01:26:55

I don't know how you do it though like it like you're trying to get chapter 1 through

01:27:01

9 to make those line up, but I get that he was trying to do the triad thing maybe that was unnecessary

01:27:07

Probably unnecessary because he never talked about the triads in depth so that you could understand those because there's too much involved

01:27:13

He didn't talk about the wings thing that I know

01:27:16

exists there's also like the

01:27:19

There's like a circle if you the test that you and I took the ready test

01:27:23

There's a circle with a triangle so you've got like the seven leans towards a one or a three for your strength or

01:27:30

Weakness or whatever I forget what they call it

01:27:32

But there's there's those types of things going on those aren't even mentioned that I could find

01:27:36

In this book so there's a lot more to the anyagram than what's in this book that that much

01:27:43

I know and I don't know what those really are

01:27:46

And I don't know if he should have brought those up, but all of that combined just made it kind of

01:27:54

Difficult for me to say that like this is your go-to resource for the anyagram

01:27:58

But I think you're you're in agreement with me on that is that this is probably not the go-to place to learn all the ins and outs of the

01:28:05

Anyagram, I don't know what that place is if somebody's listening to this and you know the answer to that

01:28:09

Please point me to it point us to it

01:28:12

So we'd love to know that but I know that this is probably not it that said just from a style and and

01:28:17

authors perspective

01:28:21

For what he's doing. I think he did a good job. I just don't think that this is your go-to

01:28:26

That's all I'm saying so that all said

01:28:29

There's a lot of great stuff here

01:28:33

picking a number for it. I think you're absolutely correct. It's difficult to do that because of

01:28:37

So much that's going on here, but that said I think I'll join you at the 4.0

01:28:43

It just seems like that's the right spot to be it doesn't seem like it's so bad and used to be a 3 something

01:28:49

But yeah, I think a 4.0 is a is a good place for it to be so I'll join you there

01:28:55

Cool on the the topic of the

01:28:59

Additional resources for the Enneagram by the way, he did come out with

01:29:03

very recently the story of you workbook, which I have

01:29:08

but it's like a hundred pages and these are not

01:29:12

simple fill in the blank style answers, so I haven't had time to go through that yet

01:29:19

I feel like this is going to be a

01:29:21

significant effort in order to complete this but it's quite possible that that would explain the the wings and

01:29:28

Try your ads and all that kind of stuff. So that makes sense. Give them the benefit of the doubt there

01:29:34

All right

01:29:36

Let's put the story of you on the shelf

01:29:38

What's next Joe? I?

01:29:41

want to read mind map mastery by Tony Buzan because Mike does is mind node files and I've been

01:29:48

Listening to ADHD nerds by Jesse Anderson a lot lately and it's come the concept of mind mapping has come up a couple times

01:29:57

there and

01:29:59

It seems like something that would be helpful to me and I feel like I want read a book about it

01:30:04

So I'm gonna drag everybody along for the ride and I figured Mike's a good resource to have along for that ride since he's been doing it for

01:30:11

4000 years

01:30:13

So mind map mastery by Tony Buzan. That's what we're going through next. All right and following that

01:30:19

What are you what are we doing?

01:30:22

Following that we are going to read I didn't do the thing today by Madeline door ah

01:30:28

Have you seen something I do a lot

01:30:31

It's a book about overcoming productivity guilt

01:30:37

which I feel is a

01:30:40

trending topic at the moment the whole idea of like the toxic productivity and

01:30:46

Yeah, it looks very interesting

01:30:51

The I saw it come across as like an Amazon recommendation or something and typically like I just move on past those

01:30:58

but that one caught my eye

01:31:00

Clicked on it and read the description and I'm like oh that looks interesting completely forgot about it

01:31:05

And then somebody that I respect brought it up the other day and I was like oh, yeah, I got to read that book

01:31:12

Nice

01:31:15

Nice

01:31:16

You got any gap books?

01:31:18

I'm I'm not quite done with it, but I'm still in the middle of digital settle castan

01:31:22

costan castan costan. I don't know how you say it

01:31:26

I've had I've heard it both ways anyway. I'm still kind of in the middle of that

01:31:30

So I'm planning to finish that up

01:31:32

While I'm out this week and then dive into the mind map piece. So that's kind of where I'm at with books right now

01:31:38

you

01:31:41

Cool

01:31:42

I do have a gap book that I haven't made a whole lot of progress on and I'm gonna

01:31:47

Actually pause until I get through my map mastery

01:31:50

But that is the earned life by Marshall Goldsmith

01:31:54

Marshall Goldsmith. I heard a podcast episode that he was on

01:31:58

might have been Shane Parrish

01:32:02

Did you know that Shane Parrish has a podcast?

01:32:07

No, I feel like I should have the guy behind the great mental models books

01:32:13

It might be a Farnham Street podcast, but the episode I heard had Shane on the audio quality was garbage

01:32:19

But Marshall Goldsmith sounds like a cool guy. Yeah. Yeah

01:32:25

Interesting. No, I didn't know there was a podcast by Shane

01:32:28

I'll see if I can find that podcast episode that I found and put a link in the

01:32:34

The show notes if I can dig it up

01:32:39

All right, well, thank you everybody for joining us on this journey. Thank you to everyone who listened live

01:32:46

Thank you specifically to our bookworm club premium members

01:32:50

Or willing to pitch in a couple of bucks every month to help us keep the lights on your support really means a lot

01:32:55

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01:32:58

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01:33:07

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01:33:27

And for all you amazing people who read along with us

01:33:30

You can pick up the book mind map mastery by Tony Bizan and we will cover that one with you in a couple of weeks