Bookworm Transcripts

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So my last time you mentioned this thing called Raycast.

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I did.

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And I went and looked into it because I had heard of it, but I hadn't actually done any

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research on it.

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And for those who don't know, Raycast is an Alfred.

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I don't know if I would say competitor.

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I don't think I'm going to say competitor.

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It's a launcher app.

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It's a spotlight competitor if you want to call it that.

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I think if you're going to compare Alfred to spotlight, it's fair to compare Raycast

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to spotlight.

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But if you're looking to compare something to Alfred, maybe it's not fair to compare

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Raycast.

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Sure.

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I can see that.

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What I found in my research for Raycast was, I'm going to say sketchy at best.

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I was not thrilled with it.

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What do you mean by sketchy?

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They're like secret lives of the founders?

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I don't think I would say secret lives of the founders.

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I would say, how would I say that?

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Their terms of service are questionable.

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Okay.

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Because basically it allows them to collect all of your information and use it for whatever

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purpose they want.

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Which I'm not super thrilled about, to be honest.

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Just going to say.

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I don't think it's quite as broad as that.

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I've heard rumblings of that sort of thing when it first came out.

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I think if you look at the terms which I have not, my guess is that I'll be able to see

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how you drew that conclusion, but I'm also going to assume that it's not as bad as you.

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Yeah.

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Maybe do that.

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My cursory glance over terms told me I don't want anything to do with this.

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Fair enough.

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So you're welcome to prove me wrong.

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I would be all ears if I am wrong.

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I do know one of the things that people tend to say is in Raycast's favor.

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Is it's a team working on it instead of a single person?

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Which is, I don't know if that's entirely true of Alfred, but it's pretty close.

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Like it's not a huge team that's working on that.

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But I also know that there's a, what is it, a $15 million funding round that Raycast just

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went through as well.

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Basically I would just be sitting tight and waiting to figure out what they're actually

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going to become when they grow up.

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So there's that.

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Also the other thing I learned is the process of building extensions or plugins for it,

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which I do a lot of, is significantly more complicated in Raycast than it is in Alfred.

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That one I learned.

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Because like there is no like gooey to build stuff from what I found.

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It's all code.

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Which is fine.

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I can do that.

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But it means that, yes, for it to be easy for somebody else to understand, it immediately

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pigeonholes you into being a developer.

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Which currently the Alfred stuff I do doesn't.

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If you're going to build your own yes, if you're me and you're just wanting to install

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cool stuff, there's lots more options.

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Correct.

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Yep.

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Absolutely.

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It will give you that because the extensions that are out there are quite broad.

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So if somebody knows that this is not required to write code, I would be all ears.

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But from what I've seen, that's what it requires.

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I don't know.

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It makes me skeptical.

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All the things.

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Now maybe that's just me being an Alfred diehard fan.

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That's very possible.

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I will definitely say Joe is biased in this territory.

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But again, I don't know.

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So don't expect me to tout raycasts.

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Wonderfulness.

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Yeah, that's fine.

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That's fine.

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I'm still using it though.

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Yeah, go for it.

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I actually have an article that I'm writing for the screencast online newsletter about

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my use of raycast and the obsidian extension.

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You can do some cool stuff.

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Yeah.

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I'm not saying it's--

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It's the thing that got me in there as an experiment.

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And I guess the results of the experiment are in at this point.

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Yeah.

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I'm in with raycast.

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Yeah.

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I don't know.

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It's an interesting tool.

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There are ways of coming at some of the launcher world are quite fascinating.

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Just my initial usage of it seems slower by quite a bit.

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I don't know if that's just the indexing process it's going through.

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I don't know.

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I never did figure that out.

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But again, just my initial thoughts on it.

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I don't spend hours in my launcher every day, so it doesn't make a difference to me.

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Really?

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I use it.

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I think-- where was it?

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There was somewhere I saw stats.

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And I end up using something in Alfred close to 900 to 1,000 times a day.

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There's something that I'm using that's tied to Alfred that many times in a day, which

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is ridiculous to me.

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But--

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But when you say slower, let's just say half a second slower, right?

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450 seconds you've saved.

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This is not an enormous amount of time.

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Yes, correct.

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I do know that there were a couple times when I went to launch it that I felt like I was

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waiting for it to come up.

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And although that doesn't technically add up to a whole lot, it was frustrating when

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I'm used to it just immediately coming up as I wanted it.

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So there's that.

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Gotcha.

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Anyway, that all said, we should do follow up.

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Because--

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Let's do it.

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I can get on a high horse when it comes to launchers.

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This is the way it goes.

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[LAUGHTER]

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I have my opinions.

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Strongly held.

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Probably shouldn't do that.

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But that's the way I do it.

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All right.

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Let's see.

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What do we got here?

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We've got five total.

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I've got three.

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I suppose this is my book.

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I can go first.

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So the three that I have here, one-- well, two of these three are questions I was asking

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of myself.

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And the first of those two questions was what makes me weird.

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And basically, that's a way of leaning into who am I without needing to-- how do I say

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that-- without being ashamed of my past, I guess is what that turns into.

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And it gets even confusing for me a little bit because I found that-- in my notes, I

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was writing down that I'm a farm kid.

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And yet, I really like all the tech stuff.

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So even I'm not so sure how that all fits together.

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So I was like, I'm not sure how this actually plays out.

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But it is kind of weird.

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So I'll use it for now.

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So there's a handful of things along those lines.

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But not really anything that's worth talking about.

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It's just a lot of nuance stuff.

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It's an interesting process to go through.

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I would encourage people to go through and ask what makes me weird because it is a fascinating

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journey.

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Well, I didn't know that about me, just the thought experiment.

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So anyway, that was one.

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Two, I was asking the question, what am I afraid of?

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And this plays out in a whole bunch of scenarios, whether it's if I'm in a meeting and I feel

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like I need to speak up, but I'm not.

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Why is that?

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I haven't done this daily.

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But two or three times a week, I was asking this question of the things that I hesitated

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on or the things that I didn't move forward on.

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Why was that?

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What was I afraid of in that scenario?

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And although there wasn't anything like Joe's terrified of public speaking, like I don't

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really have anything like that.

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But there was a lot of lack of confidence I found.

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Like that's a big thing that seems to come up quite a bit whenever I write these things

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down.

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So being timid, I guess.

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Okay.

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So that's something I know that I tend to do quite a bit.

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So anyway, those are the two questions.

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What makes me weird?

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What am I afraid of?

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And then the more fun one was playing around with reminders on the Apple Watch.

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This is actually gold, I found.

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Awesome.

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Which was not expected.

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So we've belabored this whole joke can't time block thing in the past, right?

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And I started putting together reminders, like using the reminders app on my phone to

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create reminders.

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And then on my Mac, I would take those and place them on the calendar in Fantastic-Cal,

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which I'm not still, I'm still not completely sold on Fantastic-Cal.

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I've had issues with it in the past and I'm still having some weird issues with it.

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It's the only one that I've really found that does a good job of here are my calendar

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events and then here are the reminders on the calendar at the same time.

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So you can see the two of them in the same line.

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I know BusyCal does this.

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So I may try that out because BusyCal is a part of set app, if I recall correctly.

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So anyway, doing that meant that whenever I have those reminders, I can have it set off

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the watch, which is significantly less.

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Well, it's more intrusive than having it on my phone, but it's less of a distraction

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at the same time.

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It's so weird.

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So weird, which is what I want, but it seems to be extremely helpful.

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Regardless of all the nuances and subtleties that I don't understand quite yet, it does

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seem to be quite helpful in the terms of me actually getting some things done that I've

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been struggling to get done.

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So do you turn on this 15, 30 minute little tap on your wrist at all?

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Do you know what I'm talking about?

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It's similar to the hourly chimes, but I found out that you can through the accessibility

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settings have it tap your wrist every 15 minutes.

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That would drive me nuts actually.

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I know that this would drive many, many people nuts.

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To me, this as an ADHD person, this is absolutely amazing because I can accidentally lose three

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hours and not realize it.

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It's like an internal cuckoo clock.

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It totally is.

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It totally is.

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So it's an interesting process, but I know that that just making me aware of whenever

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15 minutes has passed has been absolutely gold.

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And again, they're saying in the chat, this would drive people nuts.

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And I know that this would drive a lot of people absolutely bonkers.

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It works for me.

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I'll take it.

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Right, so Blake had mentioned that if you're sitting for a while, it'll tap you every 50

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minutes to stand up.

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Sometimes you can't stand up, like maybe if you're in an airplane.

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So if you just pump your wrist a lot like this, you can actually get credit for it.

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It looks a little weird if there's other people around, but you want to close those rings.

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I mean, sometimes you got to do what you got to do.

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So instead of standing like at once you two, you play a game and don't do it.

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Well, normally I do that when I have stood previously and I didn't get credit for it.

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Oh, come on.

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Oh, sure.

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I stood up, I promise.

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I did notice so the whole stand for the hour thing.

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I was in a meeting on Tuesday.

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I sat down before the time was the meeting, one o'clock and I didn't get up until almost

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three.

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So I know that the hour of two PM or one PM through two o'clock, I didn't stand, but

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I at one point, I just kind of hung my wrist down and like put my feet straight out and

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it gave me credit for that.

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Huh, that should not count.

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I mean, I'll take it, but that shouldn't count at all.

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Just saying.

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The next is when you haven't done any exercise for the day and it tells you that you've closed

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your exercise ring.

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I have the opposite.

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I have been a little too sedentary for a little too long.

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My heart rate is escalating just by going up the stairs or something.

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I had to, so I got the Apple Watch on Wednesday.

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I didn't actually start using it until Thursday and the very first workout I ever logged on

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it was when I went to play basketball on Friday morning.

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And after doing some reading, I learned that I actually calibrated it to read exercise

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at like 140 BPM on a heart rate, heart rate of 140, 150, 160 somewhere in that territory.

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So it calibrated it as this is what exercise is.

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And then for the next two days, it didn't matter.

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At one point, I literally went and ran the stairs at our house for five minutes straight

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and it didn't count it at all.

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Huh.

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So I did the whole reset and then like did some outdoor walks and stuff like this.

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Yeah, and only for me, the only time it logs it is when I'm actually triggering a workout.

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But sure.

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Glad you like it though.

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I like mine a lot.

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It's been a fun experiment so far.

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Anyway, that all to say reminders and Apple Watch have been an interesting experiment.

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Learning lots.

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Right.

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Cool.

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Cool.

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So I have two action items which are in progress but not finished yet.

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The personal mantra, I actually came across a version of this.

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So Baron Fig has a manifesto poster, which I'll share in the chat.

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This is kind of exactly what I want to do with mine.

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And I've been collecting these little phrases that I want to appear on here.

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So like create not consume is one keep going, keep growing, stuff like that.

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But I am not sold yet on what I want all my phrases to be.

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So it's in progress and I don't know that I'll have it done in the next couple of weeks

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or whatever.

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But I think this is a really cool exercise.

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And now I have a visual which is making me very excited to actually finish this thing.

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So I'm going to do that.

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And then the personal mantra, I feel like this needs to come from the manifesto.

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But I have been actually implementing a version of this.

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So I say a version because I've basically borrowed this.

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Someone I heard say this and I've adopted it as my own for the current season that I'm

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in with the day job.

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And that is I can do hard things.

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So and it's not just a day job.

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It's anytime that I'm certainly frustrated by something.

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It's harder than I feel it should be.

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Take a breath.

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I can do hard things.

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So the personal mantra is actually paying off even though it's not my personal mantra

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yet.

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It's sort of an adopted mantra.

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But it's what I what I've needed the last couple of weeks.

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So I like this.

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Sure.

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When I actually finish these in the totality, I'll be happy to share these.

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But this is a really cool exercise.

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Yeah, as long as they're I suppose as long as they're in some shareable form.

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Sometimes I feel like I write those in notes that it's like sure.

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I don't know how to share this.

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It's like in a weird sketch on a piece of paper somewhere.

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That's me.

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Yep.

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Well, I will tell you one place if you really want to to see it the moment that it gets

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finished.

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I've been doing this experiment with the faith-based productivity community inside a circle.

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And I love this thing.

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This circle is awesome.

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There's like 150 folks in there now and people are like sharing their personal mission statements.

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And this is awesome.

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So if you're like a lot of people and really freaked out about the future of Twitter, come

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join the nice side of the internet, which by the way, as an aside, I don't I don't think

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Twitter the way I use it anyways, it's going to change all that much.

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It's always been a business thing for me.

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And all these people who are lamenting the cost of the blue check mark and they want

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to be able to just hang out with their friends, Twitter has never been that for me.

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I've never been that famous.

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And anytime you get everybody around, everybody involved, that you're going to have jerks,

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every village has idiots.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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So I don't know.

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We'll see how it shakes out.

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I mean, I'm not a huge Elon Musk fan anyways, but I don't think the world is ending just

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because he took it over.

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No, I mean, it is.

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I think there are definitely mistakes made, but yes, like I I post to my own website and

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it goes to Twitter and micro.blog and Tumblr and Reddit and it goes a bunch of places.

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So if you don't like Twitter, you can still get all of the stuff I do like for other places.

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So that's the thing.

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That's the thing.

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You're going to be able to find the stuff other places if it really were to disappear.

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And then the other thing is if you're looking for any sort of community, Twitter has never

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been it.

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What's going to happen if Twitter were to just disappear tomorrow is that there's going

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to be all these little micro communities that spring up.

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Twitter is not going to be replaced with something like Twitter.

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Right.

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If it really goes away, it's going to be these gated communities, which are actually better

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in a lot of ways because if someone's being a jerk in the faith-based activity community,

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it's free.

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Yep.

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If you're being a jerk, I'm going to kick you out.

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Correct.

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Yes.

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And if you don't mind, I like to plug one other thing.

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Okay.

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We've got a New Year calendar that we do for the Focus Podcast and we got the 2023 version

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done.

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So I'll share a link in the show notes for people, but it is live now and it's basically

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the same as the 2022 version.

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There is an additional PDF download though for like planning your day that I put together.

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There's a video on the product page, which kind of walks you through how to use it.

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So the New Year calendar, I don't know if you ever used the New Year calendar, Joe.

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I think I probably gave you one at one point, but it's like the whole year at a glance and

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like the quarters are shaded so you can quickly see, you know, crazy busy month coming up.

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I'm not going to commit to anything else in that because I know like even if I have technically

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the space for it, it's just too much.

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I can't handle it.

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Try to space things out, you know.

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But the other side of that has been like the planning your day side.

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So put together a PDF, which I've been playing with on the remarkable.

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You could say it's been designed for the remarkable because I first saw it, Jesse shared

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it and I was like, Hey, that might be cool on the remarkable.

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Could I try it?

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And then we tried it and we made some changes and I changed the format and things like that.

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But yeah, I went back and forth with him using the remarkable as the test case.

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Nice.

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Yeah.

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Cool.

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Yeah, I've never used the New Year calendar.

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I've always used some form of a digital thing.

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My wife always has a calendar on the wall that's like their homeschool, like field trips

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and such, but it doesn't really get to be too much other than that.

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So that's the way it is.

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Sure.

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All right.

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So let's that all set.

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Let's jump into today's book because I feel like there's a lot we could cover.

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I have a lot of things in the outline, but we'll see how much of it we actually spend

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a decent amount of time on.

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But that said, let's jump in.

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Today's book is the latest release from Ryan Holiday in and it's the second of a four book

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series that he's in the middle of.

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This is discipline is destiny.

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The first of this series is Courage is Calling, which we've covered here on Bookworm.

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So if you want to listen to that first, you're welcome to do that.

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But the four virtues piece just to, and he starts the book off with this just so you

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can kind of like, where is this coming from?

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It's told through the story of Hercules coming to the fork and the road where he has to choose

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vice versus virtue.

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And then he chooses virtue, but then that leads him into the process of, well, what

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is virtue?

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And in the, I guess, ancient world, they tended to refer to virtue as these four elements,

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courage, temperance, justice, and wisdom.

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So obviously courage leads to courage is calling.

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Discipline is destiny is the temperance side of that, which it's an interesting choice

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of words that he's using there.

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So it's like, okay, here are the four elements for virtues, I guess, the four components of

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virtue, but we're going to call temperance discipline.

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Interesting.

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And I think that makes a little more sense when you get through the book.

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So definitely an interesting read, excited to get into this one.

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But what were your initial thoughts on this, Mike?

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Well, first of all, the temperance thing, I can understand where he gets the word discipline.

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The definition, just a quick Google search, is moderation and self restraint.

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It made sense to me, I guess, discipline and then temperance.

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However, I am on to Ryan Holiday's formula now.

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And you mentioned the, forget how you phrased it, the virtues, but essentially where they

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come from is stoic philosophy.

00:21:57

Ryan Holiday is the stoic guy.

00:21:58

And this is not a surprise.

00:22:00

I mean, he's been going down this road for a while.

00:22:05

However, I feel like at this point, having read the second book in this series, and there

00:22:13

is a little bit of overlap with the courage one, not exactly.

00:22:18

It is largely new material, but I also feel like at this point, I'm good on the stoic stuff.

00:22:25

It's almost like, I like this book a lot.

00:22:31

We're going to get into the meat of it and obviously the style and rating at the end.

00:22:36

And so this is a completely disconnected thought from all of that.

00:22:40

But right now, I'm not super excited to read the next one.

00:22:46

Again, that has nothing to do with my view of this book in particular.

00:22:50

I also read a, a gap book recently called Snow Leopard by the category Pirates Guys, the

00:22:59

ship 30 for 30 people.

00:23:02

And they talk about, because they're all about content creating and finding your, your niche

00:23:07

and stuff like that.

00:23:09

So they use people as examples.

00:23:11

I think we even talked about this a little bit last episode, like the Mark Manson stuff.

00:23:15

Like, I understand where he's coming from with that, but I don't want to be that guy,

00:23:20

right?

00:23:21

And so they basically outlined and you can totally see it once you know what you're looking

00:23:25

for.

00:23:26

Ryan Holiday is the stoic guy.

00:23:28

That's his niche.

00:23:29

But also he's not this, I don't want this to be.

00:23:34

I'm a big Ryan Holiday fan.

00:23:36

But what he's taking and packaging here is essentially not a whole bunch of original

00:23:42

thought.

00:23:43

He's a really good researcher and he pulls together all these stories and he packages

00:23:47

them really well.

00:23:49

But my view on picking up a Ryan Holiday book is a little bit different now.

00:23:53

When I read The Obstacles the Way, way back in the day, I was like, wow, Ryan Holiday

00:23:59

came up with this stuff.

00:24:00

That is amazing.

00:24:01

Like, he is speaking my language.

00:24:03

And now it's kind of like, oh, he's just drawing from this stoic pool.

00:24:08

He's repurposing Marcus Aurelius.

00:24:11

And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

00:24:14

But at this point, I'm like, okay, I get it.

00:24:15

I'm ready to move on to something else.

00:24:17

Does that make sense?

00:24:19

I think I get the point you're making, but at the end of the day, I think that's what

00:24:24

every author does.

00:24:26

To some degree or another, they're taking information that they've learned elsewhere,

00:24:31

synthesizing it and then presenting it in their own way.

00:24:34

Which...

00:24:35

Yes, but I think there are different ways that you can do that.

00:24:40

And I'm finding myself more attracted to books that we, in the past, have not rated super

00:24:47

well, but the anti-fragile stuff and the thinking fast and slow.

00:24:53

Like, those are the people that I want to be around more and more.

00:24:57

And that makes me feel a little uncomfortable because I've always been like, Ryan Holiday's

00:25:01

biggest fan.

00:25:02

I want to be Ryan Holiday.

00:25:04

I want to own the bookstore and write books.

00:25:08

Like, he's been my hero for a long time.

00:25:14

So just because he figured out his formula.

00:25:18

Well it's not that I figured out his formula, but now that I have figured out the formula,

00:25:23

I guess, I kind of know, I feel like what to expect.

00:25:28

And I'm not sure I need more of this.

00:25:33

There's a lot of books to read.

00:25:35

I mean, we read a lot of books, but even so, there's no way I'm going to come close to

00:25:39

reading all of the potential books that if I knew about them, I would want to read.

00:25:45

And that's not me thinking like, "Oh, my life is almost over and I got to conserve my

00:25:49

book reading time."

00:25:50

I feel like if so many books left in me.

00:25:53

Yeah.

00:25:54

I was a little bit surprised though when I picked this one up and I was like, "I guess,

00:26:00

you know, when I picked up Courage's Calling, I'm like, "Yeah, let's do this."

00:26:03

Like, another Ryan Holiday book.

00:26:05

Awesome.

00:26:06

Especially once I started going through the introduction here and then even the first

00:26:11

section though, it's kind of like, "Yeah, you're seeing a lot of the same stuff you said

00:26:15

before, a little bit different ways."

00:26:17

And that's cool, but I don't know.

00:26:20

At this point in my reading journey, I'm not super excited to read the other two books.

00:26:26

And that was a little bit shocking to me.

00:26:29

Yeah.

00:26:30

Interesting.

00:26:31

I was not expecting that reaction from you at all.

00:26:35

I feel like this is very different than Courage's Calling.

00:26:39

One of the things I wrote down in my notes about this one that I went back, I pulled

00:26:45

out Courage's Calling to confirm that this was the truth because I didn't know because

00:26:49

I wrote this down after like two chapters in.

00:26:51

But the question I asked myself was, "Did Ryan Holiday do something different this time?"

00:26:57

He normally would tell a story and then tell us some of the detail around it.

00:27:02

This time he did a couple things different in that each of the chapters, he's kind of

00:27:08

telling you a story and that's it.

00:27:11

He adds to it as you go through it, but the story is the chapter.

00:27:17

And he didn't do that in Courage's Calling.

00:27:18

He definitely had like a segmented, "Here's my point," and then the latter third or half

00:27:23

of that chapter was him explaining it or talking about the stoic philosophy behind it.

00:27:29

This one, he took a different approach and kind of interspersed the stoic conjecture

00:27:35

if you will in the middle of the story, which then meant the story took the entire chapter.

00:27:40

But because of him doing it that way, it meant that he could introduce a character in chapter

00:27:45

1 and then continue to expand on that and add bits of that story through the entire book,

00:27:51

which he did with about five or six of these characters that he uses throughout the entire

00:27:56

book.

00:27:57

He didn't do that in Courage's Calling.

00:27:58

I'm certain he didn't do it in the obstacle as the way.

00:28:01

So from a writer's stance, regardless of where he's getting his ideas, that's hard to do

00:28:08

and amazing that he managed to pull it off.

00:28:10

So that's jumping head to the end of this segment, but that's kind of something I noticed

00:28:16

was very different this time around.

00:28:18

But that's also part of why I love Ryan Holiday.

00:28:22

I still love Ryan Holiday.

00:28:24

And if I know what he's doing, I still love the way he's coming at this.

00:28:29

And that is completely fair.

00:28:31

I guess as I finished up this book, I could see the pattern from the early books that

00:28:43

he had written.

00:28:44

I feel like the early books, he's taking a theme in stoic philosophy.

00:28:51

It's not just mapping it to one of the virtues and developing it fully.

00:28:58

So I feel what you're going to end up with, the four books in this series, is a book and

00:29:05

a half to two books worth of really original material.

00:29:12

He's stretching it out is how I feel a little bit.

00:29:14

And I don't blame him for doing that.

00:29:15

If I was Ryan Holiday and I had a book publisher who was, "Hey, what's the next one going to

00:29:20

be?"

00:29:21

This is totally the approach that I would take.

00:29:25

But it means that I don't like these books specifically discipline is destiny.

00:29:29

I like courage is calling a little bit better than this one.

00:29:32

But both of them, I feel pale in comparison to things like the obstacle is the way and

00:29:37

even stillness is the key.

00:29:39

I think I would disagree with that.

00:29:40

But that's my take.

00:29:43

Partially because I feel like, and we can jump into this, this will make more sense.

00:29:47

But I feel like some of the topics, it's similar to, I would say it's similar to some of what

00:29:55

we talk about in Christianity in that you may have a specific point in theology, but

00:30:02

there's a lot of subtlety around it.

00:30:05

And the subtlety is what matters to a lot of those points.

00:30:09

Obviously not all, not probably not even a majority.

00:30:12

But in the world of stoicism, I would venture to say it's the same, that the subtleties matter.

00:30:20

Because there's even, if you look, there's points in this book where you could say they

00:30:24

contradict each other.

00:30:26

And yet they coincide and live in the same space together.

00:30:30

So because of that, it means you have to pay attention to the subtlety, pick and choose

00:30:35

your own adventure, if you will, depending on the situation.

00:30:37

It's subjective, depending on what's happening and what's going on, that tells you which

00:30:42

of these to use and apply.

00:30:45

So that's important as well.

00:30:48

But I think the details matter when it comes to, in this case, comparing courage is calling

00:30:55

to discipline as destiny.

00:30:58

Just having glanced over the other book before coming into this today, I feel like they're

00:31:03

very different.

00:31:05

I feel like it's just, it's not the same realm, but.

00:31:08

Well, you're right.

00:31:10

It's not a direct comparison to courage.

00:31:12

It's calling probably the closer comparison is discipline is destiny to stillness is the

00:31:16

key.

00:31:18

Because if you look at the three sections here, we've got part one, the exterior, which is

00:31:23

the body.

00:31:24

We've got part two, the, oh man, I messed up the temperament, the temperament, essentially.

00:31:31

Yeah.

00:31:32

But there's, what's the actual name for part two?

00:31:34

The inner domain.

00:31:36

The inner domain.

00:31:37

Okay.

00:31:38

My mind, no gut messed up.

00:31:39

So I fix that the inner domain, the temperament, and then part three is the magisterial, which

00:31:42

is the soul.

00:31:43

If you go back to stillness is the key.

00:31:46

You've got three parts, which line up perfectly with these.

00:31:51

Part one is mind.

00:31:53

Part two is spirit.

00:31:55

Part three is body.

00:31:57

So they're kind of an inverse order, but we've talked about this stuff before.

00:32:03

Yes.

00:32:04

Yeah.

00:32:05

And, and I think that this is, and you're not wrong, that was when I didn't go back and

00:32:11

compare this to, but I think there's maybe something to be said for, there's the four

00:32:16

pieces and like, I really want to write about each of these four, but before I even realized

00:32:22

that this concept of the four existed, he had put together this stillness is the key and

00:32:29

the obstacle is the way like he was kind of writing around it.

00:32:32

And he's like, okay.

00:32:33

I've got all that out there, but I need to put together the format of these four and

00:32:38

I want them all in their own piece because I feel like there's a lot to say about each

00:32:41

one, even though there's probably a lot of elements of each four in both of those books.

00:32:48

But I prefer this format over that.

00:32:51

If it had existed first, maybe I would do.

00:32:54

Yeah.

00:32:55

The thing is I got to know this book and talk to Toby and Rachel.

00:33:01

Like, how is it?

00:33:02

It is good.

00:33:03

Typical Ryan Holiday book.

00:33:04

Yep.

00:33:05

And then I got thinking like, if I was going to recommend a Ryan Holiday book to someone,

00:33:10

I'm not recommending the Stoic series.

00:33:12

I'm probably recommending stillness is the key.

00:33:14

I may be am recommending the obstacle is the way, but I have a hard time just finding

00:33:21

a direct application for you should really read this one.

00:33:26

Even courage is calling like Blake mentioned in the chat.

00:33:28

You get done with that one and you want to run through a wall.

00:33:30

So if somebody's like really just struggling, I don't know what to do with my life, but

00:33:36

you know that they just got to do something.

00:33:39

You can't steer a parked car, right?

00:33:40

Go ahead and recommend that one.

00:33:42

But discipline is destiny is different because it's all about self-control, essentially.

00:33:47

You're not going to give somebody a book and be like, here, read this.

00:33:52

You need some self-control.

00:33:54

I feel like we can keep going on this for a while.

00:34:00

So let's jump into this so we can act so that what we're talking about actually makes sense

00:34:04

for those who are listening to this and haven't read it.

00:34:07

We start with this four virtues before the introduction here.

00:34:11

Basically he's laying out the groundwork for why he's got the four books set up.

00:34:15

Then he gets into the introduction piece, which I feel like is the set up for why self-discipline

00:34:22

is important.

00:34:24

He's essentially talking about the comparison between freedom with plenty.

00:34:29

When you have plenty, it gives you the freedom to do a whole bunch of stuff because your

00:34:33

life isn't dependent on going out hunting, gathering, protecting yourself and such.

00:34:38

Because of that, it means that if you have the freedom and plenty, you're able to change

00:34:41

your circumstances when they get hard.

00:34:45

That does not mean that you should always change things when they get hard because then

00:34:49

you're constantly escaping hard things.

00:34:56

Eisenhower said as he calls out in here, "opportunity for self-discipline is what freedom gives

00:35:02

you."

00:35:03

If you have the freedom to do anything and everything you want, that gives you the opportunity

00:35:07

to practice self-discipline.

00:35:09

Or the way that Ryan put it, discipline then is both predictive and deterministic of your

00:35:15

outcomes.

00:35:17

When you're given the freedoms to do whatever and choose whatever, that's the most important

00:35:22

time to implement self-discipline.

00:35:25

Yes, I like the introduction.

00:35:28

I took zero notes on it though.

00:35:32

Because it felt like stuff that we had heard before, I do think it sets the stage very

00:35:40

well for the rest of the book, however.

00:35:44

Yeah, I don't think I would argue that this isn't repetitive, but you have to keep in

00:35:49

mind this is it has to be a standalone book at the same time.

00:35:54

It can't be something that's dependent on you having read another one, so he's got to

00:35:59

do a little bit of repeating here.

00:36:02

I agree.

00:36:03

A lot of people do that.

00:36:04

The best definition I can come up with for how I feel coming away from this is I feel

00:36:11

like with the structure of discipline is destiny, he is moving more towards the Seth Godin

00:36:18

style, very short chapters, just a couple of pages.

00:36:23

Except that, yeah, but the difference is that Seth Godin, for whatever reason, the way that

00:36:29

he packages those micro essays into a book, I feel like I absolutely have to read whatever

00:36:39

Seth Godin comes out with next because it's going to be completely new.

00:36:43

But this I feel like I know the roadmap and I can probably predict some of the things

00:36:49

that are going to be in the next book.

00:36:51

That's not a bad thing and I don't blame Ryan Holiday for doing that, but it means that

00:36:57

I am less excited about the third book in this series.

00:37:01

Yeah, I might be the opposite.

00:37:04

I feel like so the four courage, temperance, justice and wisdom, I feel like courage and

00:37:10

temperance, like this discipline and go run through a wall concept that you're saying,

00:37:15

I feel like that's a lot of what we've talked about whenever it comes to stoicism.

00:37:20

The concept of enacting justice and developing wisdom, I feel like those have been skipped

00:37:26

over so far.

00:37:27

So I'm a little more interested in seeing what those are because I don't feel like we've

00:37:31

covered that.

00:37:32

Maybe I'm wrong.

00:37:33

Could be.

00:37:34

And it's just a different perspective I've not considered, but I don't know.

00:37:39

Could be?

00:37:40

It's not a stoic.

00:37:41

So I couldn't tell you.

00:37:42

Time will tell because I'm sure we'll talk about it at some point.

00:37:45

I'm sure we will.

00:37:46

All right, so let's step into part one, which is the exterior, the body.

00:37:52

As he says here, if we don't dominate ourselves physically, who and what does dominate outside

00:37:57

forces, laziness, adversity, entropy, atrophy, like all bad things.

00:38:02

So we're starting this book off by dominating the physical realm in our own body.

00:38:09

And the first chapter in this section is called ruling over the body in which we get

00:38:14

a pretty lengthy, detailed borderline gruesome explanation of Lou Gehrig and his 2,130 game

00:38:24

playing streak through his development of illness and disease.

00:38:31

And the one thing, obviously, there's a whole bunch of physical feet that comes with playing

00:38:37

over 2,000 baseball games in a row because it's not all roses and wheat fields.

00:38:44

But the thing that one of the pieces of this that really struck me was at one point they

00:38:49

ended up x-raying his hand and he had 17 healed fractures in his hand.

00:38:57

And the coaching staff had no idea he had ever broken a finger.

00:39:02

He's played with how many broken fingers and nobody knew it because he just kept going.

00:39:08

It didn't matter how he felt, he had a job to do.

00:39:11

And although I don't say I would encourage that extent of a mindset, it does make the

00:39:20

point that if you're going to dedicate yourself to a goal and a mission, ruling over your

00:39:28

physical realm is very important.

00:39:30

Yes.

00:39:32

I feel the purpose of leading with this story is a little bit of shock value because the

00:39:41

typical person who is interested in self-help books picks this one up and is probably comparing

00:39:49

themselves to a lot of other people who aren't even disciplined enough to read a book.

00:39:55

I mean, most Americans are not.

00:39:57

So they're thinking, "I'm pretty good."

00:40:01

And he's basically got in this first chapter, "Locate you and say, 'No, you suck.'

00:40:06

Without actually saying that."

00:40:08

Yes.

00:40:09

It's like, "Oh, you think you're really good?

00:40:11

Well, check out Lou Gehrig because he had 17 broken fingers and no one even knew."

00:40:16

Yes.

00:40:17

And at that point you're like, "Yeah, I complained the last time I had a sniffly nose and didn't

00:40:22

want to go to work."

00:40:24

Yes.

00:40:25

Yep.

00:40:27

I feel like this is important though because if you, so again, if you look at the whole

00:40:30

structure of this, to me it feels like he set this up.

00:40:35

Like he spent a lot of time developing the structure as we find out much later in the

00:40:39

book.

00:40:40

But he has to set this up such that he can find someone so ridiculous in their pursuit

00:40:49

of physical fitness and towards a mission that he can pretty much knock down anybody

00:40:56

who thinks that they're doing really well and they can fight through pain and they can

00:41:01

do all these things and they dominate themselves very well.

00:41:04

He's trying to find somebody that can bring you down a notch to set you up to be receptive

00:41:10

to the rest of it.

00:41:11

So I feel like it's important that he does that.

00:41:13

It definitely worked for me.

00:41:15

It's cold outside.

00:41:17

I really don't want to go walk the dog.

00:41:20

And this is where Ryan Holiday shines because he basically says, "You are a pathetic little

00:41:29

wimp without saying that."

00:41:32

Whereas Jaco Willink would just say it to your face.

00:41:35

Correct.

00:41:36

Ryan Holiday does it a lot more nicely and he actually inspires you with these stories.

00:41:41

You walk out of every single one of these chapters being like, "Man, I want to do better.

00:41:45

I want to be like that person that I just read about.

00:41:47

I want to be the subject of those stories in 100 years."

00:41:52

And so it's perfect, the perfect beginning to this book.

00:41:57

Yes.

00:41:58

So he starts us there.

00:41:59

The next chapter is Attack the Dawn.

00:42:01

He talks about Toni Morrison getting up and writing.

00:42:04

But then he dives into the strenuous life is the best life.

00:42:09

And when I read the title, I immediately thought, "Oh, here comes Teddy Roosevelt."

00:42:13

But then he started with King George IV instead.

00:42:16

It's like that.

00:42:19

That was not what I was expecting, where we were going to go.

00:42:22

And he tells the story of King George being a glutton and realizing too late that he's

00:42:28

ruined his life by eating too much, essentially.

00:42:31

And then he tells us about Teddy Roosevelt.

00:42:33

It's like, "Okay, all right.

00:42:34

We're now all right with the world because Teddy Roosevelt's been brought up when we're

00:42:37

talking about a strenuous life."

00:42:39

So I don't think we need to repeat the story there, but basically he was born weak and

00:42:43

he overcomes it.

00:42:45

The moral of the story of this section here, this chapter is do some exercise.

00:42:50

Really, that's kind of what I got from that.

00:42:54

Not just some exercise.

00:42:55

Yeah.

00:42:56

But multiple hours of exercise per day.

00:43:00

So I'm pretty consistent with my workout routines.

00:43:06

I work out usually six days a week between lifting, running, biking.

00:43:14

And even I, after reading that chapter, was like, "I gotta do better."

00:43:23

Part of it is I have this rowing machine that Blake made me buy that I don't use.

00:43:30

So...

00:43:31

That Blake made you buy.

00:43:32

Interesting.

00:43:33

Okay.

00:43:34

Well, he is definitely the enabler there.

00:43:36

And the instigator by saying, "This is the good one."

00:43:40

Yeah, thanks a lot, Blake.

00:43:43

It is good.

00:43:44

It's a concept to Roar and it was essential during COVID when I wasn't going to the gym.

00:43:48

But it's just sitting in our basement.

00:43:49

And I have been thinking for a while, "I should really beginning of my day, I should be spending

00:43:55

just 10 minutes on the rowing machine."

00:43:58

Not changing any of my other workout routines.

00:44:00

I can squeeze in 10 more minutes.

00:44:03

And just elevating the heart rate right at the beginning of the day, I feel like that

00:44:06

could help out a lot.

00:44:07

And in the past, I just excuse it because I work out six days a week.

00:44:11

I'm good.

00:44:13

But no, you can do better.

00:44:15

That's the whole point of this entire book.

00:44:17

And the thing with this, for me, you mentioned Attack the Dawn.

00:44:21

That's actually where one of my action items comes from.

00:44:23

I only wrote down two action items from this book, but they are both related.

00:44:29

They both have to do with different chapters we are going to cover.

00:44:32

So I'll just share the first one here, which is get up earlier.

00:44:36

He mentions in the Attack the Dawn part that nobody is a morning person, but it is still

00:44:40

for almost everybody.

00:44:44

And that really got me thinking that description because we look for those excuses.

00:44:52

We look for the reasons why we can't.

00:44:55

And Ryan Holiday is really good at saying, "No, you're not the special person that you

00:45:02

think you are."

00:45:04

And I shouldn't say that that way.

00:45:06

But you get my point.

00:45:07

Because a lot of people feel like, "Oh, well, 98% of people need eight hours to sleep,

00:45:12

but I'm one of the two percent."

00:45:15

They excuse it.

00:45:17

Because yeah.

00:45:18

So I think we do the same sort of thing with, "Well, I can't get up earlier.

00:45:23

I'm not a morning person."

00:45:24

The same logic applies.

00:45:25

Well, not everybody is a morning person, so I must fall into that other category because

00:45:29

this is hard for me.

00:45:30

No, it's hard, but you should still do it anyways.

00:45:33

I'm going to get up earlier.

00:45:36

All right.

00:45:37

That's fair.

00:45:38

Yeah.

00:45:39

I'm not from Attack the Dawn, but this strenuous life is the best life.

00:45:43

I'm not one that has exercised.

00:45:46

I have long said, "I move so much during the day that I'm not sure exercise is really

00:45:52

required of me."

00:45:55

I've said that for a long time.

00:45:57

And when I got the Apple Watch, I realized just how true that is because the move goals

00:46:03

with it that it comes with, I just completely obliterated those the first week.

00:46:08

I want you to burn 300 calories.

00:46:10

How about 950?

00:46:12

That's why I eat a horse sometimes because I'm just making up for burn calories.

00:46:19

So anyway, that's been an interesting learning.

00:46:22

But at the same time, I don't do any form of technical exercise, setting aside time to

00:46:29

exercise.

00:46:30

I've been doing that the last few days just to, you know, early in the morning, I'm up

00:46:35

at 5, 5, 30 anyway most days.

00:46:38

So the whole like get up earlier, like, no, that's when there's a four at the beginning

00:46:42

with the Edra line.

00:46:44

So I'm not going to do that.

00:46:46

But trying to do some formal exercise in the mornings have done that the last few days.

00:46:51

And that seems to make a pretty big difference actually.

00:46:53

So hoping to continue that one and hopefully not die in the process.

00:47:01

So I don't think that would happen.

00:47:03

But anyway, that's a big one that I'm working in.

00:47:07

There's a few other chapters in here.

00:47:09

I'm going to skip ahead a little bit to one called hustle hustle hustle.

00:47:14

And there's a reason I want to bring this up.

00:47:15

But this is where we talk about General George McClellan and Abraham Lincoln.

00:47:23

And saying that he has a case of the slows basically McClellan.

00:47:28

Nobody could get him to actually move into attacking in the middle of battle.

00:47:33

And yet in the world of military, I know it's very common for people to talk about a sense

00:47:39

of urgency and just, you know, move quickly.

00:47:41

This is why we do all the training so that we can move fast when we're ready to go.

00:47:46

And there's, all right, let me just read some of this.

00:47:50

So basically hustle is referring to as like a sense of urgency, like let's move.

00:47:55

And what he says is here is that the sense of urgency, the other more practical word

00:47:59

for this is hustle, whether in business or in sports or combat, all the greats have it.

00:48:04

Those who don't, we lament what could have been.

00:48:06

Now I bring this up because you wrote a book called hustle.

00:48:12

And that hustle hustle, yes.

00:48:14

Yes, yes, that's how hustle.

00:48:16

I wanted to get your take on this.

00:48:19

He's talking about just keep running and don't sit on your laurels.

00:48:25

Don't sit on the back bench, I guess.

00:48:28

I know I'm saying this knowing the next chapter is called slow down to go faster.

00:48:34

So he does talk about slowing down, but what's your take on this one, Mike?

00:48:38

Yeah, so I think Gary Vaynerchuk has done the word hustle a disservice.

00:48:47

I agree with everything Ryan Holiday says in this chapter.

00:48:53

I also think just the title of it is going to put some people off and maybe knowing Ryan

00:48:59

Holiday a little bit that is intentional.

00:49:02

Maybe he chose that word specifically because he knows there's this stigma attached to it.

00:49:09

Now this is not in the book.

00:49:12

This is in the update to the book which we'll get done at some point, but the definition

00:49:18

of hustle is to force to move hurriedly or unceremoniously in a specified direction.

00:49:26

That is very different than what most people think of hustle, the Gary V style, like just

00:49:34

find something to do and do it with a crazy amount of energy, never sleep.

00:49:40

So I have issues with that picture.

00:49:44

I do think you're right.

00:49:45

It has to be coupled with the next chapter, the slow down to go faster.

00:49:50

There's a phrase in there by the way, "Fastina Lente" which means to make haste slowly.

00:49:55

That's hustle in my opinion.

00:49:57

It's not doing a Herculean amount of effort every single day, but it's doing something

00:50:01

every day because you realize that you don't have days to waste.

00:50:05

You show up and you do something and that consistency produces the results that you're looking at.

00:50:10

In fact, there's a quote that I jotted down to my mind-note file from that next chapter

00:50:14

that says, "Hustling isn't always about hurrying.

00:50:18

It is about getting things done properly."

00:50:21

And there's a phrase from the military, slow, smooth and smooth as fast.

00:50:26

I agree with that 100%.

00:50:28

So all that to say, yes, I agree that hustle is a good thing.

00:50:33

However, you have to look at the totality of what that actually is in order to really

00:50:39

understand it.

00:50:40

And most people are just going to settle for the surface level of revelation and immediately

00:50:44

get the picture of Gary Vee in their head and be like, "I want nothing to do with that."

00:50:47

I understand that too.

00:50:49

Yeah.

00:50:50

Yeah.

00:50:51

I do know that, quick side note, Gary Vee doesn't expect that of his own employees.

00:50:57

It's true.

00:50:58

You would not necessarily realize, but he knows he's the one that's passionate about his business

00:51:02

and he's the one that will run 4000 miles an hour because 100 is way too slow.

00:51:09

But he will not expect his employees to do that.

00:51:12

It's like, "I'm paying you to do a job that does not mean you have to have the passion

00:51:15

and drive that I do because I own and love the business."

00:51:18

It's like, "I'm not expecting my people to have that."

00:51:20

So he'll tell you that.

00:51:22

But it's kind of weird when you hear him say it because he kind of seems to expect that

00:51:29

of everybody the way he talks.

00:51:31

So it's kind of, "Huh, how does this work together?"

00:51:36

This is why you got to be conscious of what's the totality of the message that you're putting

00:51:42

out into the world.

00:51:43

And Gary Vaynerchuk is another one that they kind of do case studies of and that's no leopard

00:51:48

book.

00:51:49

And again, after reading that and diving into how some of these really famous creators

00:51:58

have built their platform, their audience, their niche, it becomes obvious to me like

00:52:04

there's certain things I just don't want to do it that way.

00:52:07

And I think Gary Vaynerchuk has leveraged what his audience wants, which this maybe sounds

00:52:15

bad, but essentially he's going for the shallow stuff, the easy life hack type stuff, the

00:52:21

quick sound bites, the tiktoks, the short videos, just give people a jolt in the arm.

00:52:28

You're not going to get the whole message about hustle from those things.

00:52:33

So you got to recognize that just by embracing that, you're saying something even when you're

00:52:40

not saying it and it has ripple effects.

00:52:42

So I don't know if Gary Vaynerchuk and Elon Musk know each other personally, but everyone

00:52:48

who follows both of those people could totally make the connection even though Gary Vee doesn't

00:52:52

run his company that way.

00:52:54

They associate that mindset that Gary Vee has with what they see Elon Musk doing work

00:53:00

basically as we record this, you know, he said, get ready to work really long hours or

00:53:04

get out of here.

00:53:07

And so that's not, that's not good.

00:53:10

That's not a net win for the world.

00:53:12

Yeah, I don't know, obviously he finds people who do this, but I am not one of them.

00:53:20

Like, I'll hustle all day long, but not at the day job.

00:53:24

Like, I'll hustle and get a lot done at the day job and then go home and do it again,

00:53:29

but it's on a completely different realm.

00:53:31

It's my own world.

00:53:34

So it's just different.

00:53:36

So doing that all day long for someone else's company, I would, I feel like I would struggle

00:53:42

with that.

00:53:43

I feel like that's a good place to, let's jump into the last piece I have in this part.

00:53:48

Sleep is an active character.

00:53:50

Talk about not wanting to hustle and bust your tail all day long.

00:53:53

Let's talk about Archie Moore, which I thought this was absolutely, I don't want to say hilarious,

00:54:00

but it was kind of funny to me.

00:54:02

Archie Moore, heavyweight boxer, was going into a fight for the title.

00:54:10

I didn't write down the year, so I don't know when this was.

00:54:12

He slept 11 and a half hours the night before this fight.

00:54:16

And as if that wasn't enough, he took a three hour nap before the fight.

00:54:22

I think sometime late morning, maybe, took another short nap before stepping into the

00:54:27

ring and then proceeded to win in the fifth round because his opponent was exhausted.

00:54:34

And it's like, huh, number one, I don't think I could sleep that long if I wanted to.

00:54:40

You're not training to be a boxer either.

00:54:43

No, I'm not.

00:54:45

That's valid.

00:54:47

That said, I slept really well last night because I am not used to doing a 20, 30 minute workout

00:54:53

early in the morning and then doing my day.

00:54:55

So I was very tired last night.

00:54:58

So I get that.

00:55:00

But the point was, if you're going to do a lot of high value, high energy work, sleep

00:55:07

has to become important.

00:55:08

I know you talk about sleep regularly.

00:55:11

This is not something I think I've really jumped onto the bandwagon with sleep.

00:55:17

Part of that is the farming background.

00:55:19

It's like, you don't get a choice.

00:55:20

You're going to bust your tail to 11 at night, get up at 4am and off to the races you go.

00:55:24

There is no option.

00:55:27

But I have that option now.

00:55:29

And I feel like this is something I need to prioritize more.

00:55:33

So I've got an action item off of this because what I've been doing over the last week, this

00:55:38

is actually going to lead me into having gap books in the future more too, I think, is

00:55:44

I've been opting to not pick up my phone after 8pm at all.

00:55:51

I don't want to say I've spent a lot of time on computer and phone after that time.

00:55:56

It's just like the quick checks and stuff can lead to like five minutes here or there.

00:56:00

And it's not huge, but at the same time it does make a difference.

00:56:06

So I've stopped doing that and instead I've grabbed a shower before bed, make a cup of

00:56:13

tea, grab a book, sit and read for 45 minutes, and that's become kind of my wind down and

00:56:19

get ready for bed routine.

00:56:21

I sleep a lot better now, which I think that's pretty obvious, but at the same time, there's

00:56:28

a little bit of, it takes some discipline to keep that habit, to build that habit when

00:56:37

it's easy to just grab and scroll through Instagram or TikTok or whatever.

00:56:41

That's easy, but that's as Ryan Holiday is telling us this whole time, that's not the

00:56:47

route to the higher life, I guess.

00:56:50

Exactly.

00:56:51

Yeah, I am a big proponent of sleep.

00:56:55

I was diagnosed with epilepsy when I was 18 years old, had a seizure standing in line

00:57:01

at a McDonald's.

00:57:02

The person I fainted into was a nurse, put me on my side, till the ambulance got there.

00:57:08

Had one other seizure, my freshman year of college, have not had any issues since then.

00:57:15

Because I have, I believe, I have modified my habits and prioritized not just getting

00:57:23

enough sleep, but getting, doing what I can to get good sleep.

00:57:27

The blackout curtains, the weighted blanket, all that kind of stuff.

00:57:32

So I didn't really have a choice, I guess, that would have disqualified me from being

00:57:37

a farmer.

00:57:39

However, I feel that there are a lot of people who feel like they don't have a choice that

00:57:45

they really do.

00:57:46

If you are going to look at your habits and the things that you do, you'll, you can recognize

00:57:51

after reading something like this, like, yeah, I could go to bed a little bit earlier and

00:57:55

that would, instead of stop, stop using my phone at night, stuff like that.

00:58:00

A lot of people say, "Oh, blue light doesn't make a difference to me."

00:58:04

Really?

00:58:05

Probably because you're sitting there staring at your phone until midnight and then you

00:58:08

just fall asleep because you're exhausted and then you get up at six because your alarm

00:58:12

goes off and you got to get ready for work.

00:58:14

But that's not the ideal.

00:58:16

And the fact that you've done it for a while doesn't mean that you're not paying a price

00:58:20

for that lifestyle.

00:58:21

Again, a lot of people feel like, "Oh, I'm the minority.

00:58:24

I don't need that much sleep."

00:58:25

Yes, you do.

00:58:27

You do.

00:58:28

Yep.

00:58:29

I'll say that about everybody, even though it's not everybody.

00:58:31

Just to be safe.

00:58:32

Let's round up here.

00:58:33

You do.

00:58:34

Yep.

00:58:35

Get your sleep.

00:58:36

If I say you'll feel better.

00:58:38

Yes, you do.

00:58:39

I'm right more often than I'm wrong.

00:58:41

Like, so it goes.

00:58:44

Sleep is important, but let's move on to part two here because we've been talking about

00:58:48

everything in the physical realm, right?

00:58:49

The exterior of the body.

00:58:51

Part two is about the inner domain, the temperament.

00:58:53

So this is your mind and the mental discipline that we're going to step into next.

00:59:02

And this all starts off with a chapter called "Ruling Over Yourself."

00:59:07

And this is where we're introduced to Queen Elizabeth II.

00:59:13

And this is like, obviously I'm not British.

00:59:18

So the whole King Queen monarchy, I don't understand the detail around all of that.

00:59:24

Regardless, it sounds like just the character sketch that we're given here.

00:59:31

She has a lot that she managed and that she had been in control of and the way that she

00:59:37

came at it.

00:59:39

But one of the things I wrote about it is like she had developed rigorous disciplines

00:59:43

of the mind so that she could endure some people, persuade some people, and basically

00:59:51

navigate a lot of difficult situations as Queen.

00:59:54

Yeah, as we're saying, the chat, watch the crown.

00:59:56

Yeah, I've watched some of the crown.

00:59:58

Like, I don't know how much of that's a trust though.

01:00:00

There's that.

01:00:01

Anyway, we get this sketch of Queen Elizabeth II.

01:00:05

And she comes up in a number of other chapters.

01:00:08

I don't know that we'll end up talking about those specifically with her, but just knowing

01:00:13

that she has to go through a lot of things but doesn't actually have power over the government

01:00:20

and doesn't really make decisions for anything of true influence and yet has a ton of influence.

01:00:28

Like that's tough to get your mind around.

01:00:31

And yet that's the point, right?

01:00:34

If you can rule over yourself, you can have this type of an impact without having to be

01:00:39

explicit about it.

01:00:40

Yeah, I'm trying to come up with different words for this, but I can't.

01:00:47

Essentially what you're saying though is like they don't have direct, they don't have

01:00:51

a direct impact over everything.

01:00:54

They don't sign the laws, et cetera.

01:00:57

But they do have influence because people are always watching them as a parent.

01:01:01

You understand.

01:01:02

Correct.

01:01:03

This is like because more is caught than taught and it doesn't matter what you say, what matters

01:01:09

is what you do.

01:01:10

Your kids are watching you 24/7 and if you roll your eyes or do something that's not in line

01:01:19

with the character you want to portray, they're going to remember that.

01:01:22

You really got to be on your A game.

01:01:25

And so that's essentially what he's saying is that Queen Elizabeth has had to be on her

01:01:28

A game ever since she was like 17 years old and became the queen or whatever.

01:01:32

Really, really long time.

01:01:34

And that is a Herculean task going all the way back to the story and the introduction.

01:01:39

That is a big deal and that feels like a lot of pressure and a lot of responsibility.

01:01:45

But I think the takeaway here again, he's going into a new section and again he's trying

01:01:50

to inspire you and the way that he does that is by using a story that you don't measure

01:01:57

up to.

01:01:58

Correct.

01:01:59

Yep.

01:02:00

That's active because these are people and so you can look at that and be like, well, yes,

01:02:05

she was the queen, but she is a human.

01:02:09

I'm a human.

01:02:11

If someone else can do this, then maybe I have the same capacity or ability inside of

01:02:17

me or maybe I don't have it right now, but I at least have the potential and it can be

01:02:22

developed.

01:02:23

Like you see somebody else who has physically done something and then it seems like that's

01:02:29

at least a possibility for you.

01:02:32

Right.

01:02:33

You still have a choice of whether you're going to apply the self discipline and get to that

01:02:36

point, but it's at least the possibility at that point.

01:02:42

Yes.

01:02:43

And again, this is like you were saying, like this is a setup.

01:02:47

Let me show you how insignificant you are and how somebody else can do better than you,

01:02:55

which means you have a lot of work to do.

01:02:57

So he does set that up quite well.

01:03:01

There's another section that I'm going to skip over here that has to do with like a pause,

01:03:05

like making a pause before you act on something, but the one after that, keep the main thing,

01:03:10

the main thing.

01:03:12

We get a story about Booker T. Washington being so dedicated to his mission that he said no

01:03:18

to many, many, many things.

01:03:21

And I just think it's interesting, you know, this is the concept.

01:03:25

I feel like we talk about this in a lot of different arenas, but like the Stoics say,

01:03:29

if you don't know where you're sailing, no wind is favorable.

01:03:32

And it has this era of you got to know what your mission is and what your goal is.

01:03:38

Annual goals is what Mike tells us we should always set up, right?

01:03:41

Right, Mike, annual goals.

01:03:42

That's the goal, right?

01:03:44

He's staring at me.

01:03:46

I think it's uncomfortable.

01:03:48

No, Mike would not say that.

01:03:52

I'm actually being nicer to goals, but yes, I think habits are still better than goals.

01:03:57

So I would advise you maybe don't set the annual goals, maybe set some themes and try

01:04:05

to live those out every day.

01:04:08

And the score will take care of itself.

01:04:11

Interesting side note, you don't really hear like George Washington didn't set up annual

01:04:16

goals.

01:04:17

Beethoven didn't set up annual goals.

01:04:20

And these are people like they had missions that they were driving towards, but they didn't

01:04:23

say they had specific goals.

01:04:27

I mean, if you look at the creators in that book, the Daily Rituals by Mason Curry, I

01:04:34

would wager, a lot of them did not have goals, the really prolific ones.

01:04:39

They just showed up and wrote every day.

01:04:42

They showed up and created every day.

01:04:45

And it's those rituals that produced the prolific output.

01:04:49

And I can see a situation where you would have a goal, you sign a book deal, whatever,

01:04:54

and the publisher says, "Okay, you got to have it done by this state and you've got

01:04:58

an advance, so you have to publish it before you run out of money."

01:05:03

So there's very much that whole process could be anchored in you could argue goals.

01:05:10

But I feel like the ones who really just do it, and the ones that become famous for it,

01:05:15

the ones who their stuff lives on, the money is almost secondary.

01:05:23

It's like the Walt Disney thing.

01:05:24

We don't make movies to make more money.

01:05:27

We make money so we can make more movies.

01:05:30

That's the vibe I get from the people who are really prolific with this stuff.

01:05:34

They would do it anyways, even if they never got paid, if they could.

01:05:39

This is one part of the reason I brought this up.

01:05:41

This is an area that doesn't talk about.

01:05:43

I also don't know that this is the book for it either, about what is your mission?

01:05:49

What are you driving towards?

01:05:50

He tends to refer to always work towards your mission and that's something that you hold

01:05:56

on tight to.

01:05:58

He never says anything about how to determine what that is if you don't have it.

01:06:03

Now, I kind of know where I land on that.

01:06:05

You obviously know where you land on this, but this isn't really something he ever touches

01:06:10

on.

01:06:11

He should have in this particular book, but it is something that he kind of glosses over.

01:06:17

That is a great example of being boxed in by the stoic virtues.

01:06:21

Yes, I would love to hear that train of thought extended.

01:06:28

There are places where it was natural to do so after some of these short essays, but

01:06:33

you're right.

01:06:34

Didn't fit.

01:06:35

No.

01:06:36

It is a 300-page book though too.

01:06:38

It would have just gotten longer.

01:06:40

I don't know.

01:06:41

Maybe that's in the wisdom book.

01:06:43

I would love to see his take on that, but I've listened to a few of his podcasts, but

01:06:47

I don't feel like I've ever heard him talking about that topic.

01:06:51

Anyway, just an interesting side note.

01:06:55

Keep the main thing, the main thing, basically say no to things that take you away from whatever

01:06:58

this mission is that you are working towards.

01:07:03

We skip forward a few chapters here and then we get to one called "Do the Hard Thing"

01:07:08

first.

01:07:09

I'm bringing this up because we've talked about this topic in the last few episodes of "Eat

01:07:13

the Ice Cream First versus Eat the Frog First."

01:07:18

Although I get that concept for people with ADHD, I don't know.

01:07:25

I feel like I get sucked into the ice cream world if I don't start with frogs.

01:07:33

That's just me.

01:07:34

I've been trying to make sure I'm doing the things I don't want to do first in the morning.

01:07:39

That seems to work okay, but that's a motivation thing.

01:07:44

That's a whole big can of worms that I've been working on knowing that this is a disconnect

01:07:51

in my own wiring.

01:07:54

There's that.

01:07:56

Yeah, this is an example of Ryan Holiday basically saying, "Just do it."

01:08:05

I'm telling you you suck if you don't because one of the things I wrote down from this one

01:08:09

is that fools wait for the right time.

01:08:11

Oh, so if I wait for the right time, I'm a fool, essentially.

01:08:15

Yeah, what are you going to do with that?

01:08:17

Are you going to just write off everything else that he says?

01:08:20

Or you're going to look at the mirror and be like, "Maybe I am a fool."

01:08:25

The older I get, the more I realize I am more often than not the fool.

01:08:31

That actually is very freeing.

01:08:32

That opens up a lot of possibilities when you say, "I am the problem."

01:08:35

That also means you are a solution.

01:08:37

You have the power to change your world.

01:08:39

I believe in that a lot.

01:08:41

But yeah, I thought of that too with the eat the frog section here because you, if eating

01:08:46

the frog isn't working, what are your options?

01:08:49

You can look for something else, find another reason.

01:08:52

I'm not saying that that's necessarily wrong either, but I feel like that's a dangerous

01:08:57

mindset to apply just generally.

01:09:00

I would prefer to think, "I'm going to give this person who is writing these books and

01:09:05

is obviously very smart and done all this research."

01:09:08

A lot of, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that if I'm having

01:09:12

trouble applying something here, I should take an honest look at where can I get better

01:09:21

and not just excuse it.

01:09:22

Again, I'm not saying that that is necessarily what Jesse was saying with the ice cream thing.

01:09:29

But just don't take the bait.

01:09:33

There's always going to be an opportunity there to be like, "Oh, well, it's no big deal."

01:09:37

And maybe it really is a big deal.

01:09:38

I've not been diagnosed with ADHD, so I can't speak to this.

01:09:43

I don't know what people who have to take medication for this, what they really are going

01:09:48

through the way their brain is wired.

01:09:51

So I'm not going to speak to this.

01:09:52

All I know is that applying it personally to myself.

01:09:55

Someone says, "This has worked for a lot of other people and it's not working for you

01:10:00

and you got to change."

01:10:01

I'm going to ask myself, "Are they right?

01:10:05

Do I need to change?"

01:10:07

And I'm going to at least try it.

01:10:09

Maybe it'll stick, maybe it won't.

01:10:10

I'm sure I'm going to fail.

01:10:12

It kind of ends this whole book that way, by the way.

01:10:14

This whole discipline is destiny by saying, "This is the path.

01:10:19

This is the journey.

01:10:20

We're all on this and we all fail at it all the time.

01:10:22

We're just trying to get a little bit better."

01:10:24

Yeah.

01:10:25

And when you said to wait is to be a fool, know that this chapter where he says that is two

01:10:30

chapters after he's talking about patience and waiting to do the thing intentionally.

01:10:35

That's why I say it.

01:10:36

This has to do with subtleties.

01:10:37

It's important to know the circumstances and what's going on around it.

01:10:41

So two more here out of this particular part.

01:10:44

One of them is a ways down on this list.

01:10:48

It talks about respect time.

01:10:50

Obviously, this is something I've been focusing on a lot.

01:10:53

I know with my whole ADHD thing, I'm very prone to time blindness and just not...

01:11:00

I'm not even aware of how much time has passed.

01:11:02

Sometimes it feels like it's two minutes and it's been an hour.

01:11:04

Sometimes it feels like within five minutes and it's been like four hours.

01:11:07

It totally just throws me off sometimes, thus the every 15 minute tap on the wrist that'll

01:11:13

drive out.

01:11:14

People are absolutely crazy.

01:11:15

But he just has a quote here that I thought was interesting.

01:11:17

Now is the time because now is the only time you have.

01:11:21

I feel like that's something a lot of people need to remember because it's very easy to

01:11:24

think about, "I don't want to do this today.

01:11:27

I'm going to have time tomorrow.

01:11:28

I'll do it then."

01:11:29

Well, now you've procrastinated how many times?

01:11:34

If it's that important now, if it's that mission critical to you, now is your time.

01:11:43

Waiting till tomorrow is not going to get you very far.

01:11:46

Yeah, and there's a whole other message in there with like actually do the work, don't

01:11:50

just talk about it, but just confining it to this respect time chapter.

01:11:55

I also really liked this one.

01:11:58

Mentioned that no one is able to make more time, which is very true.

01:12:03

And that routine is an essential tool in managing time.

01:12:09

But the big thing that punched me in the face from this chapter was this idea that when

01:12:14

we waste time, it also wastes us.

01:12:17

I immediately thought of that wait-but-why calendar where you have the moment that you're

01:12:22

born and then the average lifespan of 80 years.

01:12:25

And the idea is that you color in the shade, the boxes, and you can see your life disappearing

01:12:32

in front of you.

01:12:34

And that is a sobering thought.

01:12:36

Harkens back to the 4,000 weeks by Oliver Berkman, actually.

01:12:42

But really, it's just an encouragement.

01:12:44

It depends on how you view this, right?

01:12:46

You can view this as a lot.

01:12:47

It's depressing.

01:12:48

I don't want to think about dying.

01:12:49

But again, Ryan Holiday is the stoic guy.

01:12:52

So actually, maybe that's why he didn't talk about personal mission because it really doesn't

01:12:55

matter.

01:12:56

You're here just for a moment and you're not going to do anything worthwhile anyways,

01:13:01

so why don't you talk about it?

01:13:03

Just go about farm cattle on your ranch and be done.

01:13:07

I don't know.

01:13:09

But anyways, yeah.

01:13:11

So the big takeaway, when I read that, immediately you can think of, like, I don't, that's a

01:13:16

depressing thought, the fact that when I am spending an hour on social media at the end

01:13:21

of the day, I am throwing away an hour of my life and what is that actually worth?

01:13:26

But I don't know.

01:13:28

I don't have trouble reframing that.

01:13:30

So that's my initial thought when I hear that statement and then it's like, okay, well,

01:13:34

let's just get busy.

01:13:35

Ephesians 5, 16, one of the verses I really love about redeeming the time.

01:13:39

Rescue back.

01:13:40

Ransom from loss, right?

01:13:42

It doesn't mean that you're going to be productive and hashtag hustle every moment of every day,

01:13:47

but you're going to value the time that you have and you're going to do the very best

01:13:52

you can with it.

01:13:54

And you're going to care enough to measure it so that you can improve it next time.

01:13:58

It boggles my mind why people do not track their time.

01:14:02

I'm fighting with some of the stuff in the day job.

01:14:05

It's like, people just track your time.

01:14:07

Do you not care about getting better?

01:14:10

You keep complaining that you don't have time for all this stuff.

01:14:12

And when I ask why you don't, you don't even know because you won't track it.

01:14:17

So I was like, just do this basic stuff.

01:14:21

And then we can talk about how we can make this better for you.

01:14:25

I don't track my time, but I can pretty much tell you the exact amount of time I'm spending

01:14:30

on things though, if you were to ask, because at this point it's all in the calendar.

01:14:34

It's not technical tracking, but I have a list of it.

01:14:37

That's fine.

01:14:38

That's fine.

01:14:39

That's the people who want to do better, but they don't understand how they could do better

01:14:43

until you, whatever you don't manage.

01:14:48

What's that saying?

01:14:49

You can't improve what you don't manage, basically.

01:14:51

Whether it's your time, your money, if you don't have a budget, you're going to run out

01:14:56

of money before you run out of month.

01:14:59

Yeah, I can't improve what you don't measure.

01:15:02

So it is something that's the gist of it anyways.

01:15:06

So that, I think, applies to all your resources, not just time, but time is the one that we

01:15:11

always feel like, "Oh, I got plenty of that."

01:15:13

No, you don't.

01:15:14

And it keeps ticking, so you shouldn't get a handle on it as soon as you can.

01:15:20

All right, let's step into part three here, looking at the clock, but the magisterial,

01:15:25

or the soul, and this starts with a quote here from Theodore Roosevelt.

01:15:31

"When we rule ourselves, we have the responsibilities of sovereigns, not of subjects, which is

01:15:36

which took me a little bit to get my mind around.

01:15:39

But basically, if I understand this correctly, if you work through the process of developing

01:15:44

self-discipline, you've followed developing restraints and control over the body, you're

01:15:51

working on your temperament and your mental game, once you've done all that, it kind of

01:15:55

elevates you to a different level without you even really intending it to.

01:16:01

And as such, you've gained a lot of responsibility in how you interact with other people.

01:16:05

You're not the subjects working in and around other people.

01:16:09

You're kind of above them inadvertently.

01:16:12

That's the way I took that.

01:16:13

I'm not sure that's true 100%, but that was just my perception of it.

01:16:17

And it's kind of enforced by, I guess, the syntopical piece around all of the chapters

01:16:24

that follow this, because they all have to do with your interactions with other people

01:16:28

in some form.

01:16:30

For some of it's very explicit, some of it's kind of implicit.

01:16:33

But in all of them, they have to do with how you're interacting with other people in some

01:16:37

form.

01:16:38

So you've worked on yourself both externally and internally, and now you're kind of working

01:16:42

with other people.

01:16:44

That's the way I interpreted this.

01:16:46

And then this is started off with a section called "Elevating Yourself," which is just

01:16:51

a story kind of explaining this again, like somebody who was given what's his name, Antoninus

01:16:57

Pius.

01:16:58

I don't know if that's anything.

01:17:00

I had no idea how to pronounce these names.

01:17:01

Yeah, but he basically was preparing the throne for Marcus Aurelius.

01:17:07

That's what you need to know.

01:17:08

He could have killed Marcus and just taken it.

01:17:11

He had that opportunity many times, and yet he spent basically his entire reign preparing

01:17:18

Marcus to take his spot, which is a tutor.

01:17:23

Great restraints in itself.

01:17:25

But the chapter that I want to talk about more is the next one after that, which is

01:17:29

"Tolerant with others, strict with yourself," and there's a quote in here from Benjamin

01:17:32

Franklin, "Search others for their virtues thyself for thy vices."

01:17:38

I really didn't like reading this.

01:17:42

This is one of my least favorite chapters in the book, not because I disagreed with it,

01:17:47

because I really don't want to do this at all.

01:17:51

I would rather reverse this.

01:17:53

I'm a good person.

01:17:55

You have all these problems.

01:17:56

I would rather go down that path.

01:17:59

I'm not such a high and mighty person that I'm not doing that.

01:18:04

Why?

01:18:05

Because I'm human at the moment.

01:18:07

That's why it works, at least for me.

01:18:11

Yeah.

01:18:12

Well, I think if you dig a little deeper with the why, it can be boiled down to it makes

01:18:22

you feel better about yourself.

01:18:24

Right?

01:18:25

Sure.

01:18:26

Yeah, that would make out too sense.

01:18:28

Picking on you, but applying this to myself as well.

01:18:32

You can pick on me.

01:18:33

I think it's fine.

01:18:34

This is why we take that approach.

01:18:37

It is not my fault.

01:18:39

It is unfair.

01:18:40

These other people are being jerks and they should stop.

01:18:45

That is maybe true, but it also is sometimes outside of your control.

01:18:51

What are you going to do?

01:18:52

Just complain about that or take back control and do something about it.

01:18:58

The thing that you can do is not impose power or impose your will over other people, but

01:19:05

discipline yourself.

01:19:07

This applies to something that Ed Cole says in the men's ministry stuff that we go through

01:19:13

at my church that we judge ourselves by our intentions, but others by their actions.

01:19:24

If Joe is late, hypothetically speaking to a bookworm episode, I naturally, I'm telling

01:19:35

not myself, but you can put your own situation.

01:19:40

Even if you are able to fight against this belief, this is what your brain naturally

01:19:43

says.

01:19:45

Doesn't he know how busy I am?

01:19:48

Doesn't he know that I've only got this short period of time to record this thing?

01:19:52

Doesn't he know that there are people waiting how selfish that he would mis-manage his

01:19:58

time and be late to a recording?

01:20:02

Go ahead and use an example of me on the other hand.

01:20:04

This is a really minor, stupid thing.

01:20:07

That's why I use this example.

01:20:09

It makes no difference.

01:20:12

Nobody cares except me at that moment if I let my emotions run away and build up this

01:20:18

big scenario of what you're doing in the background over there in Minnesota so far away.

01:20:27

And we're talking about just to be completely transparent about what we're talking about.

01:20:32

This was four minutes of time.

01:20:34

Yes.

01:20:35

Just to be completely clear about what we're like.

01:20:36

That's all it is.

01:20:37

It's four minutes.

01:20:38

That's what we're talking about.

01:20:40

Even if it was an hour, who cares?

01:20:43

But it's those little things that your brain makes into big things.

01:20:48

And that's really why this part, this whole soul section and why this is so important.

01:20:54

Because you can't see this part, correct?

01:20:57

Yeah.

01:20:58

And this is super important.

01:20:59

I'm bad at this.

01:21:00

This is why I brought it up.

01:21:02

I regularly, in my mind, judge people all the time.

01:21:07

And sometimes I'm not great about maintaining that in my own thoughts.

01:21:13

And what this is convicting me of is that even though I'm having those thoughts, I should

01:21:19

be trying to stop those in my own mind and not entertaining those.

01:21:24

Because the more I entertain them, the more they repeat themselves and thus it becomes

01:21:28

a problem later on.

01:21:29

So that's ultimately why I'm like, okay, I've got to stop on this.

01:21:35

So search others for their virtues, they sell for their devices.

01:21:38

If I'm looking more for the problems in myself, as opposed to looking for those in other people,

01:21:43

and better off because I can work on those.

01:21:46

That's my point.

01:21:47

Yes.

01:21:48

And that is tempered perfectly with the second point you have highlighted in the outline.

01:21:52

I'll let you introduce this one.

01:21:54

Yes, which is be kind to yourself.

01:21:56

And again, I wanted this one in here because if you think about all the things we've talked

01:22:00

about, the strenuous life, ruling over your body, the hustle piece, trying to make sure

01:22:05

you're sleeping and we didn't even talk about all the focus stuff and managing your mental

01:22:11

game, putting boundaries up like all of this, like it gets to where not managing your time

01:22:15

currently like all this stuff.

01:22:17

It's very easy to have failings somewhere in the midst.

01:22:21

And we're always trying to be better.

01:22:23

And if we're always striving to be better, there's going to be points when you fail.

01:22:27

Likely a lot of them.

01:22:30

So the last thing we need to do is to keep more coals on the fire that you've already

01:22:34

created in the failing and punish yourself even more.

01:22:39

It's okay to have that failing.

01:22:41

Learn from it.

01:22:42

Get better next time.

01:22:44

It's okay.

01:22:45

Be kind to yourself.

01:22:47

This is one that I struggle with.

01:22:49

I have a real hard time forgiving myself of stuff that I do wrong.

01:22:56

So this is a really good reminder for me.

01:23:01

Essentially what you want to do is recognize the times that you messed up and try to learn

01:23:07

from them and move forward.

01:23:09

But then you have to be willing to turn the page and let it go.

01:23:13

I have a tendency to hold onto that stuff.

01:23:15

No one needs to bring up the things that I did 10 years ago because I still remember

01:23:20

them.

01:23:21

Sure.

01:23:22

Yeah.

01:23:23

So again, bring that up because I feel like it's necessary given how many things we're

01:23:27

talking about that require change and improving and why you're not as good as Lou Gehrig or

01:23:33

the Queen.

01:23:35

And then there's a bunch of other stuff in the middle here.

01:23:38

But I want to jump to the last chapter in the book, which is Self Discipline is Virtue.

01:23:44

Virtue is Self Discipline.

01:23:47

And there's a quote he has here that I feel like sums up this entire chapter.

01:23:50

Words don't matter.

01:23:51

Words do.

01:23:53

And this is slowly becoming something I've been working towards and using as a mantra

01:23:59

of sorts.

01:24:00

This is worded significantly better than what I've worked on.

01:24:03

But I can think about things all day long, but until something is externalized that I

01:24:10

could show somebody else for them to see what I've done, it doesn't matter.

01:24:18

I haven't shown anything.

01:24:20

There's nothing to prove that this is something I'm working towards.

01:24:25

So until I act on my thoughts, it doesn't matter, which is a little bit hard to hear,

01:24:31

but also a great motivator.

01:24:33

Words don't matter.

01:24:34

Deeds do.

01:24:35

Yeah.

01:24:36

A different version of that, which I liked is that virtues can exist on paper only.

01:24:41

I like that.

01:24:42

It's got to be lived out.

01:24:45

And ultimately that is empowering because we have to be responsible for ourselves, yes,

01:24:50

but we all have the choice.

01:24:52

Every single day we have an opportunity to choose to live the virtuous life, whether

01:24:58

or not you are a stoic.

01:25:00

Yeah.

01:25:01

And there's an afterward in this.

01:25:03

We don't normally talk about the afterward, but there's one piece of this that I wanted

01:25:06

to bring up.

01:25:07

That's that he tells his story of how he sat down to write this book and almost quit on

01:25:15

it.

01:25:17

And then in using the stuff that he taught in this book, he's able to develop a more balanced

01:25:25

life over what he's done with his previous books, his two little boys now.

01:25:31

And his boys even noticed the massive difference.

01:25:33

They even thought he lost his writing job.

01:25:36

But it's because he's built up such a more balanced way of writing a book.

01:25:42

Basically he's doing that as a case study to show you like, I've screwed this up in

01:25:46

the past too.

01:25:47

I'm still working on getting better at this.

01:25:49

I'm still developing my own skills in this realm.

01:25:54

Don't compare yourself to me.

01:25:55

Basically is what he's saying.

01:25:56

He doesn't ever allude to that, but that's the way I took it.

01:26:00

There's a lot of things that he's done wrong to.

01:26:03

And I'm very grateful that he was willing to put his own personal case study in here because

01:26:07

I feel like it puts a lot more weight behind what he's saying in the book.

01:26:11

Yeah, I really like this section.

01:26:15

Tells some of the details of the story are interesting to me about how he knew that this

01:26:21

second book was coming because he signed the deal for the four different virtues.

01:26:27

And he was freaking out because he wasn't sure how it was going to come together, but

01:26:31

he just kind of trusted the process.

01:26:32

And then all of a sudden the way became clear because he was just showing up every day and

01:26:38

working on it.

01:26:39

So there's a lot of inspiration to be had there.

01:26:42

There's also some nuggets I feel in like how they modified their family lifestyle with

01:26:50

COVID and how they're not just embracing the return to what is normal, but just thinking

01:26:59

through like, what's the best version of this for us and influencing some control and some

01:27:05

putting the thumb on the scale, essentially, which I really believe that that is that was

01:27:10

the lesson I learned from the lockdowns too.

01:27:12

It was like, we got to find new ways to do things and we don't want to just go back to

01:27:15

the way things used to be.

01:27:17

What is best for us?

01:27:18

And when you think about that way, think about it that way, you realize some different

01:27:23

options.

01:27:25

So I think this is really cool.

01:27:27

Really cool way to end it.

01:27:28

I think it's very inspiring.

01:27:29

It also kind of humanizes Ryan Holiday in a lot of ways.

01:27:33

He's sharing some of his struggles.

01:27:36

That doesn't devalue anything that he says in my opinion.

01:27:40

That makes him more relatable, more believable, et cetera.

01:27:45

I think higher of him having shared that, it's interesting because that's also coupled

01:27:50

with the other stuff that I read in the other books and just kind of realizing that he's

01:27:55

optimizing for something that isn't quite the way that I would want to optimize things

01:28:00

and so that's got me thinking that the next book, meh.

01:28:06

I don't think that's a result of anything that is in this afterward here specifically.

01:28:13

I really appreciated the fact that he added this, even though this is page 300 now at

01:28:18

this point.

01:28:19

Correct.

01:28:20

Yeah, it's a long one.

01:28:21

Probably at that point thinking like, is this book ever going to end?

01:28:23

This is a very effective way to end it.

01:28:25

All right, let's step into action items unless there's something else you want to cover here,

01:28:29

Mike.

01:28:30

Nah, let's do it.

01:28:31

Okay, so I had three that I've got written here.

01:28:35

One is this exercise in the morning.

01:28:37

These are very practical.

01:28:39

You could actually judge me on these.

01:28:40

Doing exercise in the mornings, my goal is to take Sundays off from that.

01:28:45

I don't know how that's going to work on the Apple Watch.

01:28:47

I've got to figure that one out.

01:28:48

Surely people take rest days and don't have to lose their exercise streak, but hey,

01:28:53

that is what it is.

01:28:54

The second one is my evening tea in a book to help me with the sleep component.

01:29:02

And obviously I've started all of these already with some success, but I want to make sure

01:29:07

that we touch base with them next time and I can continue those so we can have a check

01:29:10

in point.

01:29:11

And then the last one is no phone before breakfast.

01:29:15

Just because it's easy to get into like negative news.

01:29:20

I just don't, I don't want to do that before breakfast.

01:29:25

And I know that for me, that means it's roughly a couple hours before I would ever open my

01:29:32

phone to even check the weather.

01:29:34

So there's that.

01:29:36

Anyway, those are the three exercise evening tea in a book, no phone before breakfast.

01:29:40

How about you?

01:29:42

All right.

01:29:43

I like the no phone before breakfast.

01:29:45

I didn't have an action item from this book specifically related to that, but I've been

01:29:51

thinking about this because I have a group of guys at my church, discipleship group essentially.

01:29:58

And we use the U version Bible app because they have these reading plans that you can

01:30:02

do as a group.

01:30:03

And I like how you go through the chronol, we're do the chronological reading plan.

01:30:06

And then the last thing it adds to every single daily reading section is what did you get?

01:30:12

So you go into it looking for something to share with the group and you find it as opposed

01:30:19

to just like cranking through it.

01:30:21

So I've liked doing that.

01:30:23

However, we've done it the last couple of years in a row.

01:30:27

And I am really thinking that for this next year, I want to, I want to just read the paper

01:30:33

version to my Bible that I have on my nightstand because I don't want to grab my phone at the

01:30:38

beginning of the day.

01:30:40

Because most of the time I have the discipline not to check the news, not to check the mail,

01:30:45

not to check the slack, whatever, but it's there.

01:30:49

So every once in a while, I find myself there and it's like, what the heck am I doing?

01:30:54

How did I get here again?

01:30:57

Right.

01:30:58

So my two action items are getting up early and that means going to bed early.

01:31:05

In bed by 10 p.m., I feel like that's probably the earliest I could do it with our schedule

01:31:10

and getting up earlier, that means protecting that eight hours of sleep means that 6 a.m.,

01:31:16

not as early as Jobulig.

01:31:19

Also in bed by 9.15.

01:31:22

So kind of the same before 9.15 some nights.

01:31:28

If my wife's out of town, it's like 8.15, 8.30.

01:31:30

So sounds glorious.

01:31:33

I sleep a little longer.

01:31:34

Not feasible.

01:31:36

Yeah.

01:31:37

So I really want to get into that habit.

01:31:39

I don't want to modify it for a single day.

01:31:42

I want this to be every day.

01:31:43

I think that's the value of the routine.

01:31:46

So I think that's feasible in bed by 10 up by 6.

01:31:50

Alright, style and rating.

01:31:52

It's Ryan Holiday.

01:31:55

He's a master storyteller.

01:31:57

I feel like it would be very difficult to argue with that.

01:32:00

I know that he has done, I feel like he's done quite a bit different this time with

01:32:05

how he tells those stories in a positive way.

01:32:09

It's interesting to me how many times Lou Gehrig came up throughout the book, not as like

01:32:14

here's another Lou Gehrig story.

01:32:16

It's like here's a two liner that shows how Lou Gehrig's situation played into this topic

01:32:24

of focus.

01:32:25

That happened quite a bit.

01:32:27

The Queen Elizabeth comes up quite a bit from the point she's introduced in the beginning

01:32:32

of Part 2.

01:32:33

So I love that he did that.

01:32:36

It made it very engaging and I could read this very quickly.

01:32:39

I'm not sure how I feel about the segmented off piece, like the shorter chapter component.

01:32:45

I feel like it's an interesting way for him to put this together.

01:32:48

It definitely has an error of like the almost atomic note concept, like you were saying

01:32:55

the Seth Godin concept.

01:32:57

It definitely has that error.

01:32:59

I've always kind of appreciated that take.

01:33:02

I'm not sure how I feel about it with Ryan Holiday though, because I've always appreciated

01:33:07

like the depth that he brings to things and I can tell he's got a lot of depth here without

01:33:12

being I don't feel superfluous on many things.

01:33:16

So I feel like it's well put together.

01:33:20

So I'm not sure how I feel about the little tiny pieces component, but at the same time

01:33:25

I really enjoyed reading this book.

01:33:27

I don't have like qualms with I've got you pegged here, Ryan.

01:33:34

This is one that I know that personally self-discipline is something that I've personally

01:33:39

struggled with for a long time and I know that it's like one of my weak points.

01:33:45

And having said that, like this has helped me put together like some minor things that

01:33:50

I've never fully pieced together and has kind of given me some of the reasons to work on

01:33:57

some things and being okay with doing things the hard way sometimes and seeing the benefit

01:34:02

of that.

01:34:03

But at the same time to kind of go back to Benjamin Franklin's quote about searching for

01:34:09

vices, like it made me kind of realize how many like little bad habits that I have here

01:34:14

in there.

01:34:15

It's like, okay, well, I don't know how to work through this, but I need to at least be

01:34:20

aware of these and be willing to shut those down.

01:34:23

So to me, I feel like this is a very solid book.

01:34:27

I've already recommended it a couple of times to folks that I know were kind of in the same

01:34:30

boat as I am as far as like, how do I develop this idea of self-discipline?

01:34:37

Like how do I do that?

01:34:39

So I've already recommended it a couple of times to folks.

01:34:42

To me, this is an easy 5.0 book.

01:34:44

Like, I absolutely love this.

01:34:45

It's a Ryan Holiday book.

01:34:47

I love the way he tells the stories.

01:34:48

I love the way he's coming at these topics.

01:34:51

I'm not a stoic, I have no intentions of being a stoic, but I know that a lot of the stoic

01:34:56

ideas tend to overlap with my own viewpoints.

01:35:00

So that's easy for me to jump on board with.

01:35:04

So 5.0 for me.

01:35:07

All right.

01:35:08

So it keeps coming up.

01:35:10

I feel like I need to defend some of the comments I made at the beginning.

01:35:15

Let me dive into real briefly something that shared in the Snow Leopard book.

01:35:19

They talk about the content pyramid.

01:35:21

And the goal of this is essentially to become known for a niche that you own.

01:35:27

All right.

01:35:28

So they have what they call the content pyramid, five different levels.

01:35:31

And there's this 1% rule, which kind of underlays all this.

01:35:35

90% of users consume the content, 9% of users curate, organize and update the content.

01:35:40

1% of users actually create the content.

01:35:42

So the content pyramid, there are these different levels.

01:35:45

Level 1 is consumption.

01:35:47

You can passively consume or you could actively consume where you're choosing what to consume.

01:35:51

I think everybody who listens to bookworm is involved in the active consumption phase

01:35:55

because you get something out of listening to the conversations.

01:35:59

Level 2 is curation.

01:36:00

This is where you're either sharing, you're adding your own opinion or you're curating

01:36:04

and adding some insight.

01:36:06

This is where Ryan Holiday is.

01:36:08

And this was kind of shocking to me.

01:36:10

So above that, level 3, obvious connection.

01:36:14

And this is where Mark Manson resides.

01:36:19

Level 4 is the non-obvious connection.

01:36:21

This is where you get into the deep thinkers.

01:36:25

And I know we went almost a whole episode without talking about how to read a book by

01:36:29

Mortimer Adler.

01:36:30

You almost read it.

01:36:32

Almost made it.

01:36:34

But that is an example of these non-obvious connections.

01:36:37

And as I was reading this, and the category 5 is the category creation.

01:36:41

So as I'm reading this, but the Snow Leopard's book, I'm realizing that the non-obvious

01:36:46

connections, those are the ones that really mean the most to me.

01:36:49

Centopical reading, how to read a book, why I brought that one up now.

01:36:54

But it's never the thing that grabs you the moment that you read it.

01:36:58

And essentially with Ryan Holiday being the stoic guy, yes, he's level 5 category creation.

01:37:05

But the way that he's gotten there has essentially been by curating things that already existed.

01:37:11

Stoic philosophy and being really good at storytelling.

01:37:15

That's great.

01:37:17

But I think I would rather look for the people who are going to be the non-obvious connectors.

01:37:24

I want to read more of the difficult books.

01:37:26

I don't really like, I don't even know how to say his name.

01:37:30

Nicholas Taleb, the anti-fragile guy.

01:37:34

But he's got some good ideas.

01:37:37

And I need to dig in there and figure out what he's really saying.

01:37:40

So I walk away from discipline as destiny, feeling all charged up, excited, motivated,

01:37:47

not as much as courage is calling.

01:37:50

But essentially that's the formula for Ryan Holiday.

01:37:53

He's going to explain some obvious stuff and encourage you to actually go do it, which

01:37:58

is completely fine, except that that is not speaking to me as loudly as it once did.

01:38:04

I also would say that I don't feel as excited walking away from this one as I did from

01:38:11

courage is calling.

01:38:12

I liked courage is calling better.

01:38:15

And maybe that's just the subject matter and courage was the thing that I needed at the

01:38:19

time.

01:38:20

And discipline is an important topic, but not something that I'm actively excited about.

01:38:25

So maybe it's just, you know, that it's a timing issue.

01:38:28

That could be.

01:38:29

I actually do really like the stories, but would have preferred that they be packaged

01:38:35

into larger chapters.

01:38:38

I think it would have been my preference would be tell me everything that you want to tell

01:38:44

me about Lou Gehrig.

01:38:45

Let's just have a chapter on Lou Gehrig and talk about all the principles around that.

01:38:49

So I don't have to like keep tabs of all these things in all these different places.

01:38:53

I felt like I had 60 different chrome tabs open inside my brain when I was reading this

01:38:58

one.

01:38:59

I'm not at all the time.

01:39:00

So I'm used to that.

01:39:01

It was a little uncomfortable.

01:39:03

So, and that's even without taking action on one of my previous action items, which is

01:39:09

reading more than one book at a time.

01:39:11

I mean, this was this felt like reading more than one book at a time.

01:39:17

All that to say he's a phenomenal storyteller.

01:39:20

There's one story in particular here that just really impressed me from turn the other

01:39:24

cheek where the Nazi walked up on stage.

01:39:27

So Martin Luther King Jr. was given a speech and starts attacking him.

01:39:30

Not only does Martin Luther King Jr. not fight back, but when the crowd goes to intervene,

01:39:35

he's like, don't touch him.

01:39:36

Don't touch him.

01:39:37

And then after talking to the guy and saying, you're going to be okay.

01:39:40

No one's going to hurt you.

01:39:41

Would you come back to my office and we could talk this through with an actual Nazi.

01:39:48

So not people who are changing their names on Twitter or saying stupid stuff, an actual

01:39:55

Nazi professed Nazi.

01:39:57

Who is there in the flesh beating you up?

01:39:59

Like that, that is what turning the other cheek really means.

01:40:03

Could I do that?

01:40:04

Like, again, like you look at these stories and I don't think I got that in me, but I'm

01:40:08

I'm aspiring to get to that level of mastery where yeah, I could actually do that.

01:40:13

Right.

01:40:14

So really, really good book.

01:40:17

I do think courage is calling is better.

01:40:19

And I have a little nitpicks with this one, which really don't affect.

01:40:24

I feel the the rating of this in general, just stylistically, we're going in different

01:40:29

directions.

01:40:31

So I'm going to rate it at 4.5 just because I do like courage is calling a little bit

01:40:34

better.

01:40:35

And some of his other books, the obstacles away and still this is the key specifically.

01:40:40

I liked those better than than this one, but it as much as I kind of railed on it at the

01:40:46

beginning, like, this is a phenomenal book.

01:40:48

And I would recommend that everybody read this one.

01:40:52

As I said at the beginning, I'm not super excited to continue the journey down the stoic virtues.

01:40:59

I kind of want to get to the end of that so we can figure out what's next from Ryan holiday.

01:41:04

And maybe part of that is just I want the surprise.

01:41:08

I want to know that the I want to be surprised with what the next thing he announces is kind

01:41:13

of like the apple events, right?

01:41:14

When you don't read the leaks going into it and you see the presentation up on stage,

01:41:18

you're like, Oh, that looks so cool.

01:41:21

I prefer that.

01:41:22

So maybe that's just personality.

01:41:24

I don't know, but really good book.

01:41:27

Just taking it in context of everything else.

01:41:30

I'm going to rate it slightly lower at 4.5.

01:41:33

Fair enough.

01:41:34

All right, let's shelf it.

01:41:36

What's next, Mike?

01:41:38

Next is mind management, not time management by David Kadevi.

01:41:42

I think this was recommended by Carol in the last live recording, but it has been on my

01:41:50

radar for a little while.

01:41:54

And this one I have received.

01:41:56

I have not started it yet.

01:41:58

I'm very excited to dig into this one, though.

01:42:01

It should be good.

01:42:02

This was actually the one I was going to pick next that you picked it ahead of me.

01:42:06

Excited about getting through that one.

01:42:09

Following that one, I feel like this is a book we should have covered at some point.

01:42:14

It's ranked pretty high on a lot of lists.

01:42:16

I see it come up very regularly and I've wanted to cover it for a while.

01:42:21

But this is Robert Green's book, The 48 Laws of Power.

01:42:26

And part of me feels like that would be a good follow up to discipline is destiny.

01:42:31

Not 100% certain that that's true, but I would like to cover it partially because it's

01:42:36

on a lot of lists.

01:42:37

And it seems interesting to me.

01:42:38

So we'll give it a shot.

01:42:41

48 Laws of Power.

01:42:42

All right.

01:42:43

How about gap books, Mike?

01:42:44

I do have a gap book.

01:42:46

Actually has several gap books because I stumbled across some recommendations that looked awesome

01:42:51

from Ali Abdahl.

01:42:53

Still waiting for our link.

01:42:57

But the book is, Someday is Today by Matthew Dix.

01:43:02

The subtitle here is 22 Simple Actionable Ways to Propely Your Creative Life.

01:43:08

Really it's a book about showing up and creating every day, which is a little bit of a thing

01:43:13

for me recently.

01:43:14

Fair enough.

01:43:15

All right.

01:43:16

What have we got?

01:43:19

So I'm not really doing a gap book right now, at least not officially.

01:43:21

I've got a bank of books that I may be working through.

01:43:25

I'm not real sure how much book time I'm going to be cranking through now that I'm reading

01:43:29

a little bit more.

01:43:30

So we'll see.

01:43:31

Got some Charles Dickens books I'm kind of eyeing as well, which doesn't really fit

01:43:37

Mike's taste, but that's true.

01:43:39

It fits fine.

01:43:41

So there's that.

01:43:42

But regardless, we're very grateful to those of you who have joined us live today.

01:43:46

It's been kind of fun to read the chat as we go on YouTube.

01:43:49

If you haven't joined us live, it's kind of a fun little experience.

01:43:51

You get a little behind the scenes stuff before and after the episode as well, kind

01:43:54

of some bonus extras, like when Joe shows up late because he's fighting with tech.

01:44:00

But regardless, we're always grateful to have you in the chats, fun to interact live as

01:44:05

well.

01:44:06

But we're also super grateful for those of you who join us in the club.

01:44:10

Bookworm Club is kind of a cool little place, but club.bookworm.fm.

01:44:15

And especially to those of you who are members within that.

01:44:19

So bookworm.fm/membership.

01:44:21

It's a paid membership that will get you access to special wallpaper, special area on the

01:44:27

forums, our undying gratitude, Mike's mind node files, all sorts of cool stuff.

01:44:33

So we'd love to have you in there if you're not already.

01:44:36

And if you are, we absolutely love having you on board and we're grateful that you help

01:44:39

us keep the lights on.

01:44:40

Yes, absolutely.

01:44:42

Regarding the mind node files, there's actually a couple different versions in there too.

01:44:45

So you have the PDF, which is what I've created, but then there's also mind node files.

01:44:51

So if you use mind node or want to convert it, it's actually an editable mind mapping

01:44:56

file.

01:44:57

So you can build on what I have already started for you with these mind maps.

01:45:03

But if you are reading along with us, pick up mind management, not time management by

01:45:07

David Cadevi and we'll talk to you in a couple of weeks.