Bookworm Transcripts

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All right, can we just jump straight into follow up this time?

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Because I totally failed on this and I went hunting for it and failed to even locate it.

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So somewhere in the process of me reading this book, this last book and hunting down this quiz,

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I can't find it, but you apparently found it.

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What did I miss?

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Yes.

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So it's at Adam Grant.net/hiddenpotentialquiz.

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I'll put the link in the show notes if anybody wants to take this.

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However, I will say you're not missing anything if you don't.

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Okay.

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So we read that book, Hidden Potential and Adam Grant did a lot of research.

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So I was expecting a little bit more meat on the bones here, but there is literally a question in this quiz,

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which asks, which Taylor Swift lyric is most like you or something like that?

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And yeah, there's no science behind this one.

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It's made using a program called Qualtrics, which in my opinion is like the business

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e Microsoft version of something like score app or write message.

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Okay.

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So basically any of those quizzes that you'll find on those websites are probably better than this one.

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Okay.

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Good to know.

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It only takes five minutes to do though.

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So if people want to do it, you know, whatever, I assume it's free.

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The results.

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Yeah.

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The results they give you three different categories and they say which one you're most like and which one you should,

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who you should work with to unlock your hidden potential.

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So based on the results, my strongest character skill lies in being a discomfort seeker.

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I'm not afraid to stretch beyond my natural personality traits and face my weaknesses head on to unlock my hidden potential.

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It might be helpful to work toward becoming more of an imperfectionist.

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And that involves shifting your focus away from aiming to be the best at everything and towards driving to get better at a few things.

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And then the other type of person here is sponges who absorb useful information to filter out less relevant perspectives.

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So there's like five or six real questions and then a whole bunch of optional.

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Give us your name, email, how old you are, what your job is, all that kind of stuff that they'll use.

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To market to you.

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And yeah, it's really clunky.

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Doesn't really work on a mobile device.

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I mean, it's, it's exactly what you would expect from a business.

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Office 365 style product.

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Office 365 is actually a lot better on on mobile devices recently.

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This is, this is, this, this, this, if you are coming from a corporate

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world and the thought of that like causes the hair to stand up on the back of your neck, like you have a negative visceral reaction to that sort of thing.

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Just looking at this quiz will give you nightmares.

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All right.

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I, I want to go look at it at least now.

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Okay.

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Well, I, I won't spend more time than looking at it.

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Then.

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Not worth your time.

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No.

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Which Taylor Swift lyric, you know, if, if you could use a Taylor Swift lyric to tell me all about how I operate, that's pretty impressive.

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If that would work, however, the chances for that to actually work are, are the, the bar is very low as far as what I would expect out of it.

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So let me just not to be the old man who yells at the cloud here.

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Like, I think these types of quizzes can be fine.

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I've actually built these types of quizzes.

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I built one and write message for the suite setup.

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I'm like the best task manager for you and then asked all these questions, but it actually was like a useful recommendation at the end based on the responses that you gave.

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This one is like trying to be cute and trying to be funny.

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And there's a place for that, but just recognize this is like a Facebook quiz.

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There's no science behind this.

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Other than he's cramming his categories into this, this product, I'm sure this was like brought up in a meeting.

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Somewhere in someone's like, Hey, you should totally have this quiz to generate these opt-ins for your newsletter.

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He's like, Yeah, okay, it's a good idea.

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You guys run it for me.

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And then they gave him the book and then like the marketing team took it from there.

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Sounds entertaining at least.

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Now I kind of want to take it just to just to have something to make fun of.

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It's entertaining and how bad it is.

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All right.

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All right, let's let's for the fun of the show.

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Let's carry this one over.

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Just just to have fun with it again.

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Super fun.

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Cool.

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Well, I think that's all we have on the follow-up side of it.

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So unless you have something else you need to talk about, we should jump into our book here.

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Now let's do it.

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All right.

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So today's book is none other than who not how this is per the listing.

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This is by Dan Sullivan and Dr. Benjamin Hardy.

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The interesting thing I think about this is that Dan Sullivan did not write any of it,

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which is kind of odd to me, but he was definitely consulted in the process.

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And the vast majority of it is written by, well, I shouldn't say the vast majority.

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All of it is written by Benjamin Hardy.

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With Dan Sullivan's blessing and per the introduction, it is the brain child of Dan,

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the idea who not how, which comes from a talk that he gave that Benjamin Hardy listened to.

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And then was like, dude, we got to turn this into a book.

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Thus the book.

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So I'm kind of like mixing intro, bookworm intro with intro to the book here to make

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all the chapter stuff and outline stuff be confusing for you.

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Well, I can give you a little bit more context if you want, because I'm familiar

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with Dan Sullivan and the strategic coach stuff.

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Sure.

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Okay.

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So strategic coach is the organization that Dan Sullivan runs.

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And I know someone who was actually a part of that, like mastermind group that

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costs like $25,000 a year.

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And basically it's these business owners who get together four times a year.

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I think it was in Toronto and they talk about these business concepts.

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And Dan Sullivan is actually a really, really smart business guy.

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So he's working with these people and over the years of working with them, he's, he's

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really good at distilling down like the things that he's telling people into

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concepts and frameworks that people can use.

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And over time, strategic coaches kind of built out all of these tools inside of

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this toolkit, including one of them was the impact filter.

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And there's a link to download that later on in the book.

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So it's a bunch of that sort of stuff that can help you bring clarity to your

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business.

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So the gap in the game is something that he's like teaching as part of a group

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coaching model.

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Much, does he gap in the game?

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Cause that's the other one that he did.

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Who, not how was actually the first model that these two partnered up with a,

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a book, but it's the same approach that they used for the gap in the game,

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which we covered earlier.

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So Dan Sullivan basically authored this concept and then he's like, I want to

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write a book, or I want a book to exist about this, but I don't want to write it.

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And so he gets partnered up with this Benjamin Hardy and he takes it across the

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finish line.

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If I'm in Dan Sullivan shoes, by the way, that sounds like a big leap of

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faith to let somebody else write my book.

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But if you know Dan Sullivan at all, he's kind of a different kind of dude.

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So it's not surprising to me that he's like, yeah, you know, just throw my name

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on the cover and we're good.

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Yeah.

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Which is fascinating to me because there's a little bit of, because Dan Sullivan's

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name is first in the lineup of the author list, which at first glance makes me

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think he's the main author, cause that's typically how they do that.

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Whoever the main, like primary author of the book itself is that person's name

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comes first and Dan Sullivan's name comes first.

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So I was a little bit off guard at the very beginning, cause then that like Benjamin

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Hardy tells us like, Oh, actually, no, he didn't write any of this.

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So I, I, I understand like Dan is the author of the idea and he absolutely needs

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credit for that.

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It just seemed odd to me that the primary author is not Dan Sullivan of the book.

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So it gets a little bit like definition of author is at play here.

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I'm not surprised by that though, because if you're familiar with Dan Sullivan and

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you're like, and you like what he talks about, you'll go to Amazon and you'll

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search for books by Dan Sullivan.

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And if you came across a book that was called Who Not How and it was by Dr.

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Benjamin Hardy, you'd be like, what?

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No, this guy just totally ripped off Dan Sullivan because Dan's been talking

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about this stuff for years.

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In fact, my first introduction to this topic was when I was with the marketing

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agency and we were working with a business coach and prior to one of our

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leadership meetings, he sent us a couple of like Harvard business review

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articles that we should read before we have the discussions the next day.

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And one of them was this Who Not How summary that Dan Sullivan had written

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for the, the magazine.

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And so he's been talking about this for, I don't know, at least 10, maybe 15 years.

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And Dr. Benjamin Hardy probably has sat or listened, sat in or listened to Dan

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explain this concept like 150 times.

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So he probably could have just sat down, written it in his sleep and just

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regurgitated exact words that Dan Sullivan had said before.

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But yes.

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Again, I don't know that it's the wrong.

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It's probably the right call.

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It just caught me off guard.

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I just wasn't prepared for it.

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And again, that's like, I'm not, I'm not somebody who follows Dan Sullivan and

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knows all of his things that can familiar with him and the work that he does, but

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not at a very detailed level, not like that, obviously not to your level here, Mike.

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So anyway, that particular piece, I just wanted to point out the introduction here

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does start with some stories, which then lays out kind of the format for what the

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chapters and parts are going to be later on.

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As far as like initial reactions to the book, the, the initial thought I had was

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like, okay, we're going to focus on getting the right people in the right role

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as opposed to how you go about accomplishing the task, which is exactly what

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you get in this, because it's a very descriptive title in that sense.

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So it's very well done as far as like getting what you're pitched.

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So I appreciate that.

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But that said, initial reactions, Mike.

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Well, I think you framed it right in terms of like what I was expecting.

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However, I think I would say that what you get is a little bit different because

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if you use that phrase that you talked about putting the right person in the right

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role, I think Dan Sullivan and Dr. Benjamin Hardy would probably push back on that

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a little bit because a key element of this, as they talk about in the introduction,

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is that the who must fully own the how.

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So you can have a role that is, you know, this general idea of what needs to be done,

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but it's also possible.

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And I think maybe more likely in a lot of organizations that the how just needs

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to be blown up and rethought.

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And if you're a CEO or visionary, which is who I think that this is the target

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market for this book and the type of people who would be attracted to Dan Sullivan

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and strategic coach, they can get bogged down in those details.

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So I think a key element of this book is like, don't even worry about the how

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or the role to a certain degree.

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Yes, you need people who are doing certain things, but you got to fight the

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urge to micromanage that stuff.

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And really just finding the right person is more important than even defining.

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I think the work that needs to be done, because you could have the right person

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and be trying to help them and guide them and give them some structure for, like,

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how to do their role.

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And that could be just completely crippling their effectiveness.

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If you really have the right who I feel like if you give them the reins,

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they can transform your your business or your organization if they have the

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freedom to to do that.

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You just got to get out of the way.

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Well, let's let's jump in here.

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This is a four part book, 11 chapters with an introduction and conclusion,

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pre and post those four parts.

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And the first part is freedom of time.

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And there are four freedoms we're going to talk about here.

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And there are three chapters within this first part.

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Who's so they'll refer to people as who's so the who not how find the person, not

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the process, who's create abundance and self expansion.

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It's chapter one, chapter two, the truth about procrastination and how to kill

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it and three, find who's for all aspects of your life.

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And this is really it.

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He even calls this out at one point.

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It's it's basically more than delegation.

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Like it's not necessarily this is a task that needs done.

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And you were kind of alluding to this a little bit.

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It's more than just I need to find a person to to clean my house, to use one

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of the examples that he goes through here.

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It's not necessarily that.

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Yes, he found someone to clean his house, but then realize that that person could

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do more than that and help him do a quote unquote house reset once a week,

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which meant yes, cleaning the house, but also making sure the refrigerator was

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full, making sure I'm drawing a blank on the rest of it.

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But basically you get my point like he's putting every like she's putting

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everything in place for him so that once a week, the house is completely reset

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and ready to go for another week.

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So he doesn't have to do the grocery shopping.

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He doesn't have to do all those little details that we don't like to do, right?

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So it's that concept because then by putting the right person in that situation

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to bring that person into your life, he's then able to get the time to then focus

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on the bigger components and do the other highly, highly effective tasks.

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There's a whole bunch more to this, but that's the big takeaway on that whole part.

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Yeah.

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And this, you're kind of hinting at something that makes this book a little bit

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less relatable for people like you and me because Dan Sullivan is used to working

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with people who have big businesses, big fish, shall we say, who have more

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disposable income in order to work with that kind of stuff.

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Now, I want to encourage people though, not to write it off because of that.

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I still think there's principles that you can glean from this, but just

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recognize that those are the type of people that he's working with.

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And so that's where all the examples come from.

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And it can be a little bit hard to translate because you and I don't have

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a separate vacation home in Miami where we're hiring somebody to have it ready

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for the month of the year that we're there.

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Or even he were talking about, was it the

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Oh, shoot, I'm drawn a point.

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Was it the founder of Uber who was taking an Uber for an hour and a half to get

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to the office for his commute to gain the time back so then he could do work

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in the car, but it's a $50 commute.

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Like it wasn't the founder of Uber, but it was the my takeaway from that story

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was this big business guy who's trying to get better at business.

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And so he's a salesperson.

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He needs to be prepared when he goes into these sales meetings, but he's

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got an hour commute into and out of the city every day.

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And by hiring an Uber, instead of driving himself, he no longer has to worry

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about where to park and he's able to prepare for the meetings in the car on

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the way there.

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So it's kind of like having your own private driver, but it's 50 bucks a day.

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And it's well worth that investment because he can go into it, kill a sales

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meeting and more than make that money back.

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I again, like that kind of story, I'm not in a sales situation.

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I'm not closing those types of big deals.

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My $79, $99 courses aren't going to make it worth it for me to get an Uber

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every day, but I like the idea.

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I mean, the idea makes a lot of sense.

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I was just like, OK, quick math, 50 bucks a day, $250 a week, $1,000 a month.

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That's what we're talking about.

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So $1,000 a month.

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So $12,000 a year.

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Now you also like cost wise, he doesn't have that fuel wear and tear in his own

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car. So maybe that works out.

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I don't know.

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But upfront, like I don't have that kind of money to put towards that sort of thing.

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So it doesn't doesn't make sense to me.

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So again, like you make a good point, like, and the next part is going to be

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similar to this too.

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Well, yeah, the next part will be similar to this.

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You have to have a decent amount of money to be able to pay these who's to do the,

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the, to fill the role.

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I keep wanting to say to do the job, but if I happen to say that, just know, I mean,

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like it's more than that.

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You're putting the right person in your life to accomplish something.

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So it's not necessarily just a specific job or role, but there's smaller versions

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of this too, though, like I'm not hiring a driver because that's not worth it for me.

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But I do have an example on a smaller scale.

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We have a roughly half acre lot and I have a push more.

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So if I'm going to mow it myself, it takes two hours.

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And I don't have the equipment to do the edging or anything like that.

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So I could go buy a riding lawnmower and then have to maintain it.

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But there's a, there's an older guy who is looking for something to do.

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He goes down to Florida for the winters and the person behind us, he comes and he

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mows her yard anyways.

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So for an extra 35 bucks a week, I don't have to spend those two hours outside.

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You could make the argument, like, aren't you fancy?

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You don't mow your own lawn.

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I could mow my own lawn, but the truth is I can get $35 worth of value doing

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something else with that time.

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And that's the thing, like everyone's got to figure out where those lines are for

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themselves, but there's something that you likely that you could offload to somebody

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else and it doesn't have to be like a full time role or even a part time role.

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It could be something that you delegate to Fiverr or a virtual assistant, whatever.

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There are things that are not a great use of your time and you have to recognize

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how much you doing that activity is actually costing you because at some point

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you can't just do all of the things.

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The approach is a valid one while I don't have the month, the disposable

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income to offload this thing.

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But if you're just doing all of the things then you don't have the time for the side

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projects or whatever that could create the money for you to do some of those things.

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So eventually you have to align not just your interest, but like where is

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the unique ability?

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That's another dance-all of a concept.

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You know, where can I do something that is of value?

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Kel Newport would talk about, you know, so good they can't ignore you.

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Where's where's the place where you can provide value to the marketplace?

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It's not in mowing the lawn for me, but everyone can identify their own thing there.

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Or you just decide that, you know, this thing that I should do, quote, unquote, I'm

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just not not going to get around to it.

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At some point, you know, you have to pick and choose because you can't do it.

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Right.

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Right.

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Because to continue down your mowing example, I've got almost two acres that are

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mowed in lawn and I do mow that partially because because it takes about an hour

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and a half to two hours for me to mow that even with a riding mower.

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But like that's my clarity thinking time.

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Like that's what I'm using that for.

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I don't want to be able to cost me $120 to have some of my mow it, but I'm not doing

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that.

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So to me, it does make sense for me to do it.

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I prefer having that time.

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It's like I can be off my own world.

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I can think through.

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I know I'm not going to interrupt it because if somebody is too close, they're going to get hurt.

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Like, so I don't have to worry about.

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Yeah.

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So it works out well.

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So in that particular case, I, I prefer that.

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But at the same time, even from a work stance, like, let me transition this a little bit

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from personal life to a work situation, like my workload at the day job was getting

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to be too much.

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So I ended up hiring an assistant.

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We had the budget was able to do that.

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So we have, I have an assistant that works underneath of me in his job actually now

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is full time.

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So we're exploring adding a second person to, or a third person to the team now, just

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because it continues to grow.

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So we've got to continue to accommodate that.

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So we've got, okay, what role or what situation, what type of person do we need to help

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alleviate some of that pressure?

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So those are the conversations that I have to have to do that.

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So it doesn't necessarily have to stay in personal realm.

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I just think from a personal realm, it, it gets kind of hard to apply some of this

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because it's in almost every case, it's going to take a significant number of dollars.

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Now, if you're in a situation where you have that, go for it.

00:23:09

Absolutely.

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This makes perfect sense.

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You're in that realm of people that Dan is used to speaking to and you could

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absolutely get a lot from that.

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I am not going to hire a new bird driver to get me to and from work.

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I am not likely to be able to hire a sales person to help me do sales for, I don't even

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know what, it's just not going to happen.

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Like I'm not in that situation.

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So there is, there is like, you have to think about the situations where this would be applicable.

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Yeah, the thing though is I think it's applicable in just about every situation.

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It's just, I mean, it, we got to get a little creative

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with it at the very basic level of delegating stuff.

00:23:54

I feel like you could instead of hiring a person to help you research topics for blog posts.

00:24:03

We'll just make this about creators because there's a quote on page 34.

00:24:06

Creators don't complain.

00:24:07

Complainers don't create.

00:24:08

You could, you know, have someone dig that stuff up for you or you could, you could

00:24:18

spring the 20 bucks a month for an open AI subscription or something.

00:24:22

Right.

00:24:23

There are technological tools that can help us with this kind of stuff from

00:24:30

idea generation to audio and video editing.

00:24:35

I mean, a lot of the services that we would use are going to have some sort of like monthly

00:24:41

costs associated with them.

00:24:43

And when you just look at it in terms of a program, it can feel expensive.

00:24:46

But when you look at it in terms of, well, the other option for me offloading, this would be

00:24:50

to hire a video editor for $1,000 a month.

00:24:53

You know, maybe it's not going to be at the same quality, but maybe it's good enough.

00:24:57

So look for those opportunities to lean into the things that you can really do well

00:25:03

that add value and you can define that for yourself.

00:25:07

You have to define that for yourself.

00:25:08

But everyone should be thinking about this, whether you are, whether you own a

00:25:13

multi million dollar business or not.

00:25:16

Yeah.

00:25:17

And one last note on this before we move on to the next part is that because I know a

00:25:23

lot of entrepreneurs listen to bookworm.

00:25:24

So if you fit in that realm, there are a lot of stories here.

00:25:29

I'm not going to go through all of them, obviously, but there are a lot of stories

00:25:32

in here about entrepreneurs who decided to find a person to help them.

00:25:40

And then the whole business expands and grows significantly.

00:25:44

And the entrepreneur inevitably says, what?

00:25:48

I wish I had done this sooner.

00:25:50

And that's forever the mantra, right?

00:25:53

And whenever you get help, it does expand.

00:25:56

So if you fit in that realm, usually the answer is try to get somebody to help you

00:26:01

sooner than you think you knew you need it.

00:26:03

It's like you're you can carry all the weight for a long time, but

00:26:06

in most cases, you're better off getting somebody to help you sooner.

00:26:10

Just don't micromanage this.

00:26:13

That's why it's important to get that's the right who.

00:26:17

That's the hard part, I think, for a lot of entrepreneurs.

00:26:21

They care a lot about their business and they have been doing this a certain

00:26:26

way for a long time.

00:26:28

So when you bring in a who, I'll just pick on myself as an example here with

00:26:35

the position at the marketing agency.

00:26:39

I want to make sure that I was I wanted to make sure I was doing it the right way.

00:26:43

So I asked a lot of questions.

00:26:44

But once I got comfortable, I felt like I needed more flexibility than I got in

00:26:53

order to take it to the level that I knew it could get to.

00:26:56

And ultimately when I made the decision that this isn't a great fit for me, that

00:27:02

is when I started to feel like I couldn't.

00:27:07

Create the change that the organization needed.

00:27:11

So I felt that way in the family business also.

00:27:16

And ultimately just got tired of pushing against my dad who's been doing

00:27:23

some doing it this way for 35 years and is very successful.

00:27:26

You know, most of our conversations would end in, well, I've been doing this for 35

00:27:31

years. At that point, I'm like, you're right.

00:27:32

Can't argue with that.

00:27:37

So as a, but I feel like in both of those positions, I was kind of put in the

00:27:47

role as the the who while you understand this and you can help us do this.

00:27:52

And I guess I'll just share like if you're an entrepreneur who is looking for a

00:27:59

who there is nothing more deflating to a who than to be told, well, this is the

00:28:06

way that we do things.

00:28:07

And even I think if you are an entrepreneur who has a growth mindset and

00:28:12

you're open to doing things new ways, you have to recognize that the organization

00:28:18

has kind of well, naturally just become entrenched in like these are, this is

00:28:23

the way that we get work done.

00:28:24

And bringing a who in and giving them the ability to transform things like that

00:28:31

can be really powerful, but they really need your support.

00:28:35

They really need the backing of not just the, the visionary, but the entire

00:28:40

leadership team.

00:28:41

If they are left to like try to make it on their own, it's a losing situation.

00:28:49

Everyone in the organization is like, well, who's this new guy?

00:28:51

And he's trying to make us do the things a different way and they don't

00:28:55

understand why, you know, and there's only so much communication that you're

00:29:01

who can can do as the visionary, you got to own it.

00:29:04

So the very best thing you can do is, you know, say the same thing that the,

00:29:09

that your who is, is saying and kind of back their, their approach, let them make

00:29:13

some mistakes, you know, they're, they're not going to nail it.

00:29:16

They're not going to do it exactly the same way that, that you would do it.

00:29:19

That's kind of the point.

00:29:20

That's kind of the reason that you would hire them though, is that they're going

00:29:23

to do things differently and it might be better.

00:29:25

So hopefully recognize that, I guess, you know, you got to give them freedom

00:29:30

to, if you want your organization to really fly.

00:29:32

Hopefully it's better.

00:29:33

Then you get the right person.

00:29:35

All right, let's go to part two, which is freedom of money.

00:29:41

We have freedom of time and then freedom of money.

00:29:45

There are three chapters in this one as well.

00:29:46

Time creates money, commit to specific results.

00:29:50

And then the last chapter, if you have enough money to solve a problem, you

00:29:53

don't have a problem, which I guess makes sense because you can always buy your way

00:29:57

out of it.

00:29:58

So working through all of these, this is, and it builds on part one very well,

00:30:05

so much so that we've kind of been alluding to it already in the sense that when you

00:30:10

put the right who's in your life or in the right situations, the money that comes

00:30:18

with that increases.

00:30:19

So effectively what you're doing is you're allowing that person to then help you

00:30:24

generate more value, which then drives up the bottom line.

00:30:28

And the more you're able to do that, the more the business expands, you know, the

00:30:33

rest of the story.

00:30:34

So this is a classic case of whenever you're willing to put an investment into

00:30:41

something, the return can be very high.

00:30:43

And choosing the right people is one of the most important things you could do.

00:30:48

There's stories in here about instead of what was the story?

00:30:53

There was the tariffs that were applied to shipping costs on specific materials

00:30:59

coming out of China that were increased.

00:31:01

And there was a guy involved with manufacturing out of China, but he had always

00:31:05

wanted to move to India, his manufacturing systems to India where they

00:31:10

wouldn't have those tariffs and such.

00:31:12

So he went through this process of thinking like, okay, how do I get myself to

00:31:16

India?

00:31:17

How do I make sure that that happens?

00:31:19

And then he realized, wait, it's not.

00:31:22

How do I get there?

00:31:23

It's who can help me get there?

00:31:24

So then he found a person that could build the relationships in India.

00:31:29

And then he found a person who could help him find the place for the

00:31:32

manufacturing facility.

00:31:34

And in six months time, they were up and running in 18 months time.

00:31:38

They had generated a significant amount of new revenue for the company, but it

00:31:42

was because he was focused on finding the right people to help him do those

00:31:47

things as opposed to, okay, how do I get this done?

00:31:52

If you can start to see that difference, because he regularly talks about finding

00:31:55

the who, not the how, avoiding the how question and focusing on the who question.

00:32:00

Yeah.

00:32:02

Um, this is where I feel like he can start to lose people who aren't in larger

00:32:11

organizations, um, or in positions of authority, even in smaller businesses.

00:32:17

Because he's essentially saying that you got at some point, spend the money to

00:32:22

create the time.

00:32:23

Uh, one of the big takeaways though, that I think is generally applicable is

00:32:29

this discussion at the beginning about the technical problems.

00:32:33

And basically what he's saying is that you should not be working on these

00:32:39

technical problems, which is when the answer is already known.

00:32:44

Your attention, he also says is always a hundred percent engaged with something.

00:32:48

So if it's engaged with a technical problem, it's engaged with the wrong thing.

00:32:51

It's kind of what, what he's saying here.

00:32:53

So what's the, the remedy here?

00:32:56

You find a who because how requires your time and attention, who requires

00:33:01

someone else's?

00:33:02

I don't really like that, that framing kind of makes the, the person who's reading

00:33:07

this book above the who that they would try to hire.

00:33:12

And I feel like the best, the best version of finding a who, yeah, you can do it

00:33:18

for like this problem that you're trying to solve, like expanding the company.

00:33:21

But, um, I think a really powerful application of the who is in like the EOS

00:33:29

business framework where you've got the visionary and the integrator.

00:33:31

And yeah, that was my last position.

00:33:33

So that's naturally where my mind kind of goes.

00:33:35

But I remember from the EOS model, like the research that they did, the best

00:33:42

companies weren't led by one person.

00:33:44

They were a couple of people who complimented each other and Dan

00:33:48

Sullivan speak their unique abilities, complimented each other and they own

00:33:52

different parts of the, the business.

00:33:54

So I feel like that's a really powerful formula there.

00:33:58

So the who isn't necessarily someone who is, and yeah, you've got like the org

00:34:03

chart, the visionaries at the top and then the, the integrator.

00:34:07

But in terms of like the day to day operations, they're almost like equal.

00:34:12

In the eyes of everyone below.

00:34:13

In fact, the, the integrator is kind of at the top of the day to day org chart.

00:34:17

So I feel like there's kind of this, this natural in terms of the language that

00:34:22

they use, well, I'm better than you.

00:34:24

And I think you got to be careful with that when you're finding a who.

00:34:29

Um, it's possible that if you are that successful and you're used to finding

00:34:34

people to fill roles that that's just kind of naturally communicated.

00:34:39

But I think the best version of this is a partnership, even if that hierarchy

00:34:44

does exist, recognizing and communicating to the who that you are trying to bring

00:34:49

alongside you.

00:34:50

This is the vision for what I want to create.

00:34:54

And I can't do it without you.

00:34:58

Your skill set is required.

00:35:00

You are an essential part of me accomplishing this.

00:35:04

And that's just not really the tone with this.

00:35:07

It's kind of like, well, you should definitely get a who doesn't really matter.

00:35:12

Just pick one, you know, because you can't do it at all.

00:35:15

And it's going to free up more of your, your time and money ultimately.

00:35:20

I think you got to be careful with these, these, um, hires and view them as

00:35:26

partnerships.

00:35:27

The view them as partnerships.

00:35:28

The other, the people that you hire are going to feel more invested.

00:35:32

They're going to do better work.

00:35:33

They're going to be able to own that who role better than they would.

00:35:37

If you know, you're just hiring to fill a position, like a lot of, you know, you

00:35:42

go to LinkedIn or you go to Indeed and search for the open job titles.

00:35:47

You know, it's kind of just by reading those titles, you can kind of locate

00:35:51

yourself in the org chart.

00:35:53

I hate those org charts.

00:35:55

I wish they would go away.

00:35:56

Like you need them in some way to know, like who makes the calls when something's

00:36:00

wrong, but the best teams don't care about that.

00:36:04

They, they know that everyone's important and everyone needs to show up and own their

00:36:09

job.

00:36:09

This part, I kind of struggled with it a little bit because we, we had the freedom

00:36:16

of time, like I totally get that you put people in place, you get more time with

00:36:22

this one.

00:36:22

If you put people in place, you would get more money, which yes, given that there are

00:36:32

sound business practices and other components in place, because I know of many

00:36:37

situations, especially in the corporate world, where hiring, like, I know of one

00:36:42

situation I was working on a data team and we hired a new data scientist to join

00:36:47

the team.

00:36:48

And that's fine.

00:36:50

That was great.

00:36:50

But a data scientist is not cheap.

00:36:53

They are very expensive.

00:36:56

And we really didn't have a need for that level of statistical analysis.

00:37:02

So the amount of value that came out of it was, my opinion, quite small in

00:37:07

comparison to putting that person in place.

00:37:09

Were they the right person?

00:37:11

Yeah, absolutely.

00:37:12

But the business wasn't ready for it.

00:37:14

And the business hadn't gotten to the point where that value could be realized

00:37:20

and the, the cogs in the machine were able to spend faster than the machine

00:37:25

could move.

00:37:26

So in that particular case, I think it was a waste of time and money to put that

00:37:31

person in place.

00:37:32

Were they the right person?

00:37:32

Yeah, I would agree with that.

00:37:34

They taught us a lot.

00:37:35

They did a lot of things that we could know.

00:37:37

There's no way we could do those, but the higher ups didn't know what to do with it.

00:37:41

And like, so I think that putting the right who's in place, yes, can create the

00:37:47

freedom of time.

00:37:48

Yes, it can create freedom of money with the caveat that the system is prepared

00:37:55

for it.

00:37:55

So as I was saying earlier, like, you probably need to hire someone sooner than

00:38:01

you think you do, the flip side of that can also be true.

00:38:04

You may think you're ready for a very high level thing, but you need to evaluate

00:38:09

that the current organization and the people around you can support that person

00:38:14

properly.

00:38:16

So without that, it's going to fail.

00:38:17

Yeah.

00:38:19

So kind of related to that is the pigmailean effect where we are either

00:38:23

rising or falling to the expectations of those around us.

00:38:26

So I feel there's another level of nuance here because if you approach this

00:38:34

through the eyes of the the jobs to be done, there can be a norm that is created

00:38:44

of like, this is what we're capable of.

00:38:47

And if you have the wrong people, the wrong who's leading your teams, that

00:38:54

trickles down to everybody in the organization and they get comfortable

00:38:59

performing at a level, which is sometimes even below acceptable.

00:39:04

People need to be pushed, not driven to the point where like your boss is

00:39:10

constantly breathing down your throat and being micromanaged, like no one wants

00:39:14

that.

00:39:14

But another thing that they talk about in in chapter five here is autonomy

00:39:18

without clarity as a disaster.

00:39:20

The clarity comes from the scoreboard and having the clear numbers that each

00:39:25

person in the organization owns.

00:39:27

So if you've got an org chart, you should have your leadership team.

00:39:32

You should have each one of them be over a department and there's a number

00:39:36

for the department, but every person that's underneath that person on the

00:39:39

leadership team in the department knows what their number is and knows what

00:39:43

they can do to influence it.

00:39:44

It's not just a lag measure of we've sold this many things, but it's a lead

00:39:50

measure like I've made this many phone calls, knowing that these phone calls

00:39:53

produce proposals, which ultimately produce the orders.

00:39:56

And there's a trickle down effect.

00:39:58

So maybe the department head is in charge of the sales numbers, but the

00:40:02

individuals are in charge of the things that they can do.

00:40:05

If that makes sense.

00:40:05

The problem without those numbers, people don't like not contributing.

00:40:11

So they're looking for something to do and they find something, but it's not

00:40:16

the right thing.

00:40:17

It may be even is a good thing, but it's not the best thing.

00:40:20

It's amazing how much work you can find to be done.

00:40:24

That doesn't matter.

00:40:25

And people who care, like I feel most people are honest and they want to

00:40:33

contribute to the organization, but if they don't have somebody who is

00:40:35

really like setting the bar there, then they'll just kind of drift and they'll

00:40:39

kind of float.

00:40:40

But the minute that you put a strong leader in there, they're going to push

00:40:43

for more and it's going to feel uncomfortable.

00:40:45

But some people will be like, you know what, I got used to just, just

00:40:49

chilling and I'm out.

00:40:50

Other people, that's exactly what they need.

00:40:53

They need to be pushed and they like the fact that they are now functioning at

00:40:57

their full capacity.

00:40:58

They're able to grow, develop their skills and do things that they didn't

00:41:02

think that they could do.

00:41:03

A good leader, a good coach is constantly pushing people to do things

00:41:06

that is a little bit beyond their expectations.

00:41:09

That's what they think they can do.

00:41:10

That's the whole idea behind scrum.

00:41:12

And I don't think you should constantly be pushing like you got to do more,

00:41:15

you got to do more.

00:41:17

But there are times when you got to do that.

00:41:19

And so that pig million, in fact, I like that because I've seen that where

00:41:25

you've got a weak leader and all the expectations just drop.

00:41:29

And if you're at the visionary level and you look at that, you look at your

00:41:33

team capacity and you're like, well, I guess we're our capacity.

00:41:35

I better hire somebody, not necessarily.

00:41:38

First, look at your leaders.

00:41:40

See if they're doing a good job coaching because it's possible that your

00:41:44

current team is capable of a whole lot more.

00:41:46

Again, not driving them to the point where everybody hates their job.

00:41:49

And this isn't a fun place to work anymore.

00:41:52

You do have to maintain the culture, but culture is not tied to not working.

00:41:57

And I've seen people who just get, get comfortable with that.

00:42:02

There's a point you may like people, at least you were around it, people

00:42:07

actually typically like to be pushed.

00:42:10

Like people like to be challenged.

00:42:12

If it's easy, they check out.

00:42:14

And everyone wants to be on a winning team.

00:42:16

But even this is a very simple example, even with things like writing online

00:42:22

or how you present information in a talk or the level of information that you

00:42:27

present in a talk, people generally are smarter than we give them credit for.

00:42:31

And if you dumb it down too far, it's insulting how long and maybe it's this

00:42:36

changing, but for a long time, if you were looking at being a writer online,

00:42:40

you're going to start a blog and such and you followed anybody that was talking

00:42:42

about how to start a blog, they would tell you to write for third graders,

00:42:48

like dumb it down so that you could write something at a third grade reading level.

00:42:53

And a lot of people did that.

00:42:55

A lot of stuff online is written at that level because of so much

00:43:00

pushing for it because people try to make it very simple, easy to read and

00:43:04

skimmable.

00:43:05

And what we've now been starting to see is you you have

00:43:11

some folks like Maria Popova, brain pickings, which it's been changed now,

00:43:17

I think I forget the name, but she's not done that at all.

00:43:22

It's very high level, very like if you're not well read, it's not really going

00:43:26

to make a lot of sense.

00:43:27

And she does very, very well.

00:43:30

She's very well received as a result of that.

00:43:33

There are a handful of people who do that and they don't like they assume you're

00:43:38

a smart person, so they write for smart people.

00:43:41

They're not going to write at a third grade reading level.

00:43:43

That's just one example.

00:43:45

Even when you get to like how people present even a sermon on Sunday morning

00:43:49

when the pastor, you don't have to assume that everybody's completely dumb.

00:43:55

Assume everybody's smart and they'll respect you for that.

00:43:59

So there is that same concept when you get into the world of business,

00:44:03

this freedom of time, money, choosing who's for your organization.

00:44:06

It's the same thing.

00:44:08

If you're going to dumb it down for them and make them feel like it's just an

00:44:13

idiot's job to do, then it's going to be deflating for that person.

00:44:19

And if you make it a challenge and give them the resources, the training,

00:44:26

the time to get it done and do well and let them see that challenge and rise to it.

00:44:34

Even we have a handful of special needs folks that are on our staff that do

00:44:40

some tasks around the church.

00:44:42

We always give them a bit of a challenge whenever we have those because we want it

00:44:47

to be just outside their comfort zone so that they can continue to grow.

00:44:51

So I say that and I'm trying not to be demeaning as I say that, but it doesn't

00:44:55

really matter what level you're at, whether you're a janitor at a school or

00:44:59

you're a sea level board of directors person, like being challenged is something

00:45:04

that can go a long way.

00:45:05

So don't dumb it down.

00:45:07

Let people rise to it.

00:45:08

Yeah.

00:45:09

And let people rise to it.

00:45:12

And the autonomy without the clarity thing got to come back to that.

00:45:18

Like they got to know how they can keep score.

00:45:22

It's good to have like the monthly meetings.

00:45:25

And this is where we're at as a company or organization and people can tell like

00:45:30

we're winning or we're losing based on the numbers that you identify, but that's

00:45:35

not enough.

00:45:36

They also need to be able to know without getting any feedback whether they

00:45:42

crushed it or not, because if they do, they'll feel good about that.

00:45:47

But if they get done with the thing and they're kind of like, was that good?

00:45:50

Was that bad?

00:45:51

I have no idea.

00:45:52

You failed as a leader.

00:45:55

All right.

00:45:57

Let's go on to part three.

00:45:58

This is freedom of relationships.

00:46:00

We've had freedom of time, money, and now relationship.

00:46:03

Three chapters here, how to be a good who for others, how to avoid the wrong

00:46:09

who's even highly attractive ones, how to create effective collaborations.

00:46:14

And this is essentially finding who's that you're going to work with long term.

00:46:20

So far, we've been talking about people who can do like take your mowing example.

00:46:26

You're finding a person to task for you.

00:46:28

That's for a very short amount of time and for even a short season.

00:46:32

Now it's repetitive ongoing.

00:46:34

So maybe that one kind of floats into this, but it is for a very short segment.

00:46:39

The freedom of money is fairly similar in that you're finding people to help you

00:46:44

get to a certain point.

00:46:46

And this one is more about how do you find who's that you're going to work with?

00:46:51

Not necessarily, but likely in perpetuity.

00:46:55

And forever and always.

00:46:58

And there's some stuff here in chapter seven about how to be a good who for other people.

00:47:05

So you're on the receiving.

00:47:07

You're the one doing the how side of it, which I kind of wish they like, I wish he

00:47:12

had spent more time on that a little bit just because like, OK, not everybody can be

00:47:16

hunting for who's because at some point someone has to do that.

00:47:19

Like everybody's just looking for who's then it's who, Bill and all we're doing is

00:47:25

trying to find other who's and no one's actually accomplishing anything, right?

00:47:28

So at some point someone has to do the how.

00:47:31

So there is that component here, which I'm glad he at least touched on.

00:47:35

But there is a story, I believe this is in the chapter eight, avoiding the wrong

00:47:40

who's where there was a group that was basically courting a new client who had been

00:47:48

with other firms and they were looking at should they work with them or not?

00:47:51

So they were effectively trying to decide should we build a long term relationship

00:47:56

with this client and they met with the client.

00:48:00

He had lots of demands, wanted to meet the whole team.

00:48:03

This was over a Skype call.

00:48:05

They brought in the owner of the company, brought in his team members and this

00:48:10

client potential client was immediately telling them all the things they were

00:48:14

going to have to do for him and was being a bit demeaning in the process.

00:48:18

And it just was not a pleasant experience.

00:48:21

However, this client was a very well known company.

00:48:26

It would mean a lot of revenue and a very large amount of like PR for potential

00:48:33

other clients.

00:48:34

So this could be a very big deal for the company to say yes to this.

00:48:37

After much deliberation, so if they eventually had to say no, because this

00:48:41

client was just going to be too difficult to work with and was going to be the

00:48:44

wrong who to build a relationship with.

00:48:48

Even though it would have been a very attractive situation for them.

00:48:53

So being able and willing to think through those who's you're going to build

00:48:59

relationships with can be a very big deal.

00:49:01

And that's effectively what this whole part is about.

00:49:03

Yeah, that story resonated with me because there were several experiences

00:49:10

where there were wrong fit clients that had a lot of spend that thought, you know,

00:49:21

this would be good ultimately for the business.

00:49:25

And the big takeaway I think is that whatever red flags you have in that

00:49:29

beginning phase, it's going to be 10 times worse once you sign the contract.

00:49:36

There is a fine line here though, because I also have noticed that if you just

00:49:42

start rejecting clients because they are wrong fit without any clarity on what

00:49:48

you are looking for, who is your ideal client?

00:49:51

And you're not setting the tone for this is how the relationship is going to work.

00:49:57

I think it's kind of natural for a client to just be pushing for more and more.

00:50:03

But this is one of the things we used to track is are we making money?

00:50:07

Are we losing money on these these clients?

00:50:10

And sometimes, you know, you're losing money on a client just to.

00:50:13

It's an investment, you know, you're going to make it back down the road when

00:50:18

there's another project or something that that happens or there's a bigger order,

00:50:23

you know, with the family business, schools would often like pilot the program

00:50:27

at one or two schools before they roll it out to their entire district.

00:50:33

And you really want to make a good first impression and make it easy for the

00:50:38

teachers who are piloting it to use.

00:50:39

So you offer like above and beyond with the support that's not sustainable, you

00:50:44

know, at five bucks a credit or whatever in the long run.

00:50:49

But once they get some momentum, ideally they're not going to not going to need it.

00:50:53

But what happens is like the minute that you open the door to that, you know, your

00:50:58

team is going to be looking for anytime they have a frustrating interaction with

00:51:04

the client that are looking for reasons to bail.

00:51:06

And that's not automatically going to happen, but it's something you have to watch

00:51:10

out for.

00:51:10

So I like the way that he framed that story in this one.

00:51:14

I like the way that he brought in the rest of the team and like, what are your,

00:51:17

what are your thoughts about working with this client and how everyone said, like,

00:51:23

we would do it if we need to.

00:51:25

We recognize it would be a big boost to the bottom line.

00:51:27

But there's other problems that we, we see and everybody was on the same page.

00:51:31

It kind of comes back to like vision casting and values though.

00:51:35

Like if you don't have a real solid vision for your organization and you

00:51:39

don't have real strong values that you live by a hundred percent, you can't pick

00:51:44

and choose the times when you choose, when you want to live the values.

00:51:48

You can't make exceptions because this person's got a lot of money.

00:51:51

And I feel like that's the big takeaway in this section for me.

00:51:57

Cause in chapter 90 talks about, or no, as a chapter eight, still always be the

00:52:00

buyer, right?

00:52:01

Always feel like you're in control of the negotiation that you have a,

00:52:05

an option of, of walking away.

00:52:08

And if you're constantly looking at just one number, specifically the, the bottom

00:52:13

line, you can feel trapped with that.

00:52:15

So be careful there, but I also like the, the section about the, uh, how to be a

00:52:22

good who for others.

00:52:24

He talks about three types of people in this, this section, which are givers,

00:52:28

takers and matchers.

00:52:29

I remember the givers and the takers part.

00:52:31

Uh, there was a article I read by Michael Hyatt a long time ago.

00:52:35

That goes Michael Hyatt about only higher people who have the batteries

00:52:39

included, the people who like bring life and energy to the teams that they're

00:52:43

a part of versus the ones who don't, they like suck the energy out of people.

00:52:46

Uh, but the mattress is a new, new one for me.

00:52:50

I did a, uh, an action item a long time ago about rating the, the people

00:52:55

that I have regular interactions with.

00:52:57

I do remember that.

00:52:58

Yeah.

00:52:58

Uh, yeah.

00:53:00

So, uh, the givers and the takers, you know, it's like the plus and the minus

00:53:04

version of that, but I like the term mattress.

00:53:07

Cause I feel like there's a lot of people who are matchers where if they see

00:53:11

you do something first, then they'll reciprocate.

00:53:13

But in my mind, a matcher is, in my opinion, a matcher is, uh, just a, a

00:53:20

taker in disguise.

00:53:21

I don't think you're going to get a matcher to initiate.

00:53:26

And, uh, the, the freedom of relationship piece here that he's talking about,

00:53:30

essentially what you want is, uh, you want to be a giver and you want to

00:53:34

surround yourself with other givers.

00:53:36

Cause when everyone is giving more than they expect to get, that's when things, uh,

00:53:42

become exciting.

00:53:42

Yeah.

00:53:42

He does have a quote, I forget which chapter this is on.

00:53:47

Uh, I believe it was Derek Severs and I'm going to paraphrase it cause I don't know

00:53:51

what exactly that, uh, it's the one where he says, like, if it's not an absolute,

00:53:55

yes, absolutely.

00:53:56

Let's go for it.

00:53:57

Then it's a no.

00:53:58

And that was part of the process of, you know, whenever you're deciding if someone is a

00:54:06

person or an organization to build a relationship with, like that's one of the

00:54:10

lenses you need to use to, to make that decision.

00:54:13

Cause it does make a big difference long term.

00:54:16

Because again, if you have relationships with the right who's like it frees you up to

00:54:23

continue to grow your, your mission.

00:54:25

I like chapter nine too, because it's not enough just to have the relationships

00:54:30

with the who's, you have to know how to collaborate effectively, which is what

00:54:34

chapter nine is.

00:54:37

So, um, a couple of things from here, he says that the faster you get it, throwing

00:54:42

out incomplete work, the faster it will transform into something great.

00:54:45

So basically just ship it.

00:54:46

All progress starts by telling the truth.

00:54:50

I think maybe it was Jim Collins who said it this way, uh, confronting the brutal

00:54:55

reality.

00:54:56

So like if you're going to have a scoreboard, don't isolate on the few numbers that

00:55:02

indicate that things might be telling you a positive story.

00:55:05

If everything else is telling the negative story, just deal with that.

00:55:09

Because the more that you kick that hand on the road, the harder it gets to, to do

00:55:14

that, that sort of thing.

00:55:15

And then the other one is that in order to be motivated, you need a clear path

00:55:19

forward.

00:55:20

I feel like when you start collaborating, you want some give and take because you

00:55:26

want people to shape what this is going to be.

00:55:29

But at some point, somebody needs to set some vision for this is where this is

00:55:36

going.

00:55:36

So maybe you have a meeting where you're just continually brainstorming and

00:55:41

jumping ideas, although he kind of talks about how that's not the best way to do

00:55:45

that.

00:55:45

Um, or maybe that was Adam Grant and Hidden Potential who was talking about those

00:55:50

meetings where it's better when people brainstormed on their own.

00:55:52

I think it might have been that book.

00:55:54

But then there's got to be other times when someone is, is, uh, setting the,

00:55:59

the course for what this project or this collaboration is going to, uh, materialize

00:56:05

into.

00:56:06

I think it's only a matter of time if you've got good who's that, if you don't have

00:56:10

that sort of vision that people just get frustrated and then they bail.

00:56:13

Which is why it's important to have a good purpose.

00:56:17

So let's go on to part four.

00:56:19

Good segue.

00:56:20

Like that segue.

00:56:21

So part four, freedom of purpose.

00:56:24

There's two chapters in this one.

00:56:26

You know, we, we're going to do three, three and three, and then we're going to

00:56:28

do the last part and do two.

00:56:29

My, my consistent, you know, uniform brain is like, no, but it's okay.

00:56:36

It does make sense.

00:56:38

Chapter 10, stop competing and start collaborating.

00:56:40

Chapter 11, who's expand your vision and purpose.

00:56:46

And this is where like when you start to bring other people into the fold, then

00:56:52

the overall to use like your term, and I'm sure you'll get to this, like the

00:56:56

life-themed concept, the, the purpose and mission that you have for your life

00:57:00

can start to grow.

00:57:03

And it may get to be beyond even what you're singularly able to accomplish.

00:57:10

There's a story at the beginning of this about a gal who was writing a

00:57:14

biography about her.

00:57:16

Was it her grandmother or mother?

00:57:17

Her grandmother, I think.

00:57:19

And she had been working on it, but not actively, like this is a multi-year

00:57:26

process and it's just been on hold.

00:57:28

Well, then she found out that a professor at a college was looking at writing a

00:57:33

biography about her grandmother as well and wanted to talk to her about getting

00:57:37

some information about her grandmother.

00:57:40

And the professor had no idea that she was writing her own and she saw it as

00:57:45

competition.

00:57:45

And after some work with, she did, she worked with Dan.

00:57:49

I forget who she talked to.

00:57:51

Was it just a friend or was it with Dan?

00:57:52

Um, my guess is that all of those stories came from strategic coach

00:57:58

interaction.

00:57:59

So I think so.

00:58:00

Anyway, I think it was Dan that she was talking to and he's like, well, why not.

00:58:04

Work with her and co-author it together instead of the two of you trying to hustle

00:58:10

the, like, who's going to get it out first?

00:58:11

Cause that was the mindset she was in.

00:58:13

So she then sends an email to the.

00:58:18

Professor said, Hey, would you be interested in co-authoring this and get to

00:58:23

reply almost immediately?

00:58:24

Yes, that would be amazing.

00:58:26

It's like, well, now you're on the same mission together.

00:58:30

You're both a hundred percent committed to it.

00:58:33

So you have now found the right person to help drive you towards your vision

00:58:38

and purpose collectively.

00:58:40

So again, finding the right people.

00:58:42

Yeah.

00:58:44

Um, so the life theme part, obviously that's like freedom, that's

00:58:48

integral to individual purpose.

00:58:51

But I think it gets a little, not tricky, but there's another level, which is more

00:58:58

effective here when other people are involved.

00:59:01

And it's not necessarily obvious how that translates, but the whole idea of finding

00:59:09

and living in alignment with your purpose.

00:59:12

Obviously I really like this section.

00:59:15

He talks about how your sense of purpose expands as you see deep meaning and value

00:59:21

and what you're doing.

00:59:22

That's one of the takeaways from the life theme stuff is maybe you don't need to

00:59:26

change your situation.

00:59:27

Maybe you just need to get clear on why you're doing the things that you're doing.

00:59:31

And doing that and realizing that this is in alignment with my mission statement,

00:59:35

my personal mission statement, the company's mission statement, if those, that

00:59:40

vision and those values don't resonate with you, that's a big red flag.

00:59:44

You should be asking yourself, is this the right place for me?

00:59:47

But assuming that it does, you know, finding a way to connect what you are doing

00:59:51

with that vision and the values that is exciting to you, that can totally

00:59:54

transform your day to day.

00:59:57

Uh, the more deep and powerful your sense of purpose, more meaningful, your life

01:00:00

will be that doesn't have to mean that you are completely changing your work.

01:00:05

If you can find a way to infuse that meaning and purpose into the work that you

01:00:10

are doing, uh, then you can experience that.

01:00:13

I'm reminded of the quote by the, the dirty jobs guy who said, don't follow your

01:00:18

passion, but always bring it with you.

01:00:20

Whatever you are finding to do, do it with excellence, find a way to make it

01:00:25

meaningful.

01:00:27

Um, and then when other who's get involved, the project becomes more important and

01:00:32

impactful, 100% assuming that you have found that in the first place.

01:00:37

If you are waiting until the right people join the team and then it's going to be

01:00:41

exciting, that's never going to happen.

01:00:44

That's got to be the prerequisite, but I do like the idea that, uh, I am so

01:00:51

excited about this vision that I have, and I'm attracting other people who are

01:00:55

excited about this when we're doing it together.

01:00:56

Yeah, that is going to be more meaningful, more impactful.

01:01:01

But again, like you don't have to necessarily change what you do in order to

01:01:06

experience that because in chapter 11, he talks about the parable of the three

01:01:10

brick layers.

01:01:11

And I love this parable.

01:01:13

Uh, have you heard this before?

01:01:15

Uh, before this?

01:01:17

No.

01:01:17

Okay.

01:01:17

So, um, I think I talked about this in faith based productivity at one point,

01:01:23

but, uh, there's three people who are all working at the same job site and they're

01:01:30

all brick layers.

01:01:31

And there's this person who walks up to the first one.

01:01:34

He's like, Hey, dude, what are you doing?

01:01:36

And he's like, uh, what does it look like?

01:01:38

I'm doing, I'm laying bricks.

01:01:39

No, I'm, I'm a brick layer.

01:01:41

I'm just trying to make it, make it to the weekend, you know, have enough

01:01:44

money to feed my family walks up to the second guy.

01:01:46

What are you doing?

01:01:47

He's like, well, I'm building a wall.

01:01:49

So he understands the project and how it fits into, to what he's doing, fits

01:01:55

into a larger picture, but there's really no, no vision for like why, why is this

01:02:01

wall need to exist?

01:02:02

And then goes to the third guy's like, Hey, what are you doing?

01:02:04

He's like, I am building a great cathedral to my God.

01:02:09

And like that guy's excited about what he's doing.

01:02:12

The other two are just kind of, you know, whatever.

01:02:14

And they're all doing the same thing.

01:02:16

But their perspective is, is totally different.

01:02:19

And I do think that you can manufacture that to some degree.

01:02:23

Now you don't want to do it to the point where like you're lying to yourself

01:02:26

about the work that you're doing there.

01:02:27

You do want to confront the brutal reality and ask yourself, is this really the,

01:02:32

the best place to recognize these things?

01:02:34

And if not, let's find a different situation.

01:02:36

Um, but I think more than likely, uh, we're in a place where we can learn and grow

01:02:44

and work with good people and do something meaningful and find purpose in it.

01:02:47

And we just never take the time to really think about it.

01:02:50

So this is really cool, I think.

01:02:53

Um, and I guess kind of the reason for that probably is he talks a little bit

01:02:57

about this, but in our, our Western culture, we kind of emphasize this rugged

01:03:00

individualism where it's all about me and what I'm doing.

01:03:05

And he ties, he didn't use that term, but he talked about fundamental attribution

01:03:09

error, which is the tendency to overemphasize how a person acts and under

01:03:12

emphasize the situational explanations.

01:03:15

So like the situation that you're born into, the people who are, uh, who are your,

01:03:20

your parents or your relatives or the people at your, your church or whatever

01:03:24

other group you're, you're a part of, they all influence you.

01:03:28

And, uh, it's not just, you know, up to you to completely change your, your

01:03:33

situation. I, I do think that there's a lot of power in that idea of self

01:03:36

determination and setting your own course here, but you do have to recognize

01:03:41

that the people that you surround yourself is there's that quote, you know,

01:03:45

you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with.

01:03:48

So if you're not, if you're looking around and you're like, I don't want to be

01:03:52

like those people, maybe you should change your group.

01:03:55

But when you can get in the right group of the right people, uh, and achieve

01:04:03

this, this freedom of purpose together and all get excited about the thing that

01:04:07

you're building together, I feel like that's kind of the, the Holy Grail here.

01:04:10

I think this part was more geared towards like, how do you find, well, not

01:04:16

how to find someone, but finding someone who can then help you achieve your

01:04:21

purpose. At the same time, I think it's important to, to note that it's also a

01:04:27

good thing to be open to someone else finding you.

01:04:30

Like to be the who that someone else is hunting for.

01:04:34

And I think about this whenever, you know, people are looking like job changes and

01:04:39

such. Well, if you're looking at a job change and he talks about this earlier

01:04:43

in the book as well, you're not necessarily going and saying, here's, here is, uh,

01:04:49

or what is it?

01:04:50

What is it I can get from working at this place?

01:04:52

Like you're not necessarily coming at it from that perspective as much as how

01:04:56

can I provide value to this organization because that simple flip of mentality,

01:05:02

like, yes, you might be doing the same thing to use the brick later concept.

01:05:05

You might be doing that same thing, but the outcome can be drastically different

01:05:10

because of the mindset going into it.

01:05:11

The same can come true when you're open to someone else finding you to help you do

01:05:18

the exact same thing.

01:05:19

So they may be providing that mission and purpose that you kind of have in the

01:05:23

back of your head, but you may not fully have realized.

01:05:26

So you wouldn't be the one reaching out to someone else, but being the one reached

01:05:31

out to. So as much as this is like the entire book to kind of take us into the

01:05:36

conclusion here, but a lot of the book is being willing to hunt for those other

01:05:41

people and bring them to you.

01:05:44

There's not as much in the book about being willing to be the one being called

01:05:49

to someone else. And I think that's partially why I was talking about the

01:05:53

one chapter is like being a good who for someone.

01:05:57

Like that's a very small section there.

01:05:59

And I really wish there was more on that.

01:06:02

And I'm sure Dan has talked about this.

01:06:04

If it's been something he's been doing for 15 years, I'm sure this has been

01:06:07

something he's discussed.

01:06:09

It's just not here.

01:06:10

So now I kind of want to go dig into that particular piece and see what else

01:06:14

he has to say about it.

01:06:16

Cause that part I think is a little fascinating to me, but it's just not

01:06:20

expanded on. So there's that.

01:06:23

Now to bring us to the conclusion here, unless there's something else on part four,

01:06:28

you want to cover before we do that.

01:06:29

But no, let's do it.

01:06:30

The conclusion is just called conclusion in parentheses or no babs, no coach.

01:06:38

And this tells the quick story about Dan going bankrupt.

01:06:45

And then starting the strategy circle.

01:06:49

Shortly thereafter and having this, what was the gals named?

01:06:54

Babs, of course, but was working at, I think it was a massage parlor.

01:06:58

Is that right?

01:06:59

Yeah, she owned a massage parlor.

01:07:01

She owned a massage parlor and then she was a part of this thought that the

01:07:05

strategy circle was going to be a big thing.

01:07:07

And then they end up working together on it.

01:07:10

And the moral of this story, at least the way I took it was that you need to find

01:07:15

that one person that you can rely on and that can be like your inner circle person.

01:07:19

Like your ultimate who that was the kind of the way I took it.

01:07:23

And then he spends it and is like, okay, here's what you can do moving forward from

01:07:28

here, but there wasn't a really a whole lot to this one.

01:07:31

It's a fairly short conclusion, but that was the main story behind it.

01:07:34

Yeah, that's the main story.

01:07:36

I'm not sure it fits as the conclusion.

01:07:41

I wondered.

01:07:42

Yeah.

01:07:42

It is a little weird.

01:07:44

There are a couple other points to be made here in like a standard conclusion that

01:07:49

comes after that, which he's asking the question, who do you want to be a hero to?

01:07:54

And if you help people become who they want to be, then you can become who you

01:07:57

want to be.

01:07:58

So to your point of the how to be a good who for others, I feel like he is trying

01:08:06

to kind of drive that home here at the end, but also makes for a little bit

01:08:13

strange structure, maybe for the book, because you talk about freedom of time and then you

01:08:17

go to freedom of money.

01:08:18

Those are very clear, one level to the next level.

01:08:21

I would argue freedom of purpose probably comes next.

01:08:26

And maybe there's some of the freedom of relationship stuff that gets worked into

01:08:34

that chapter, but freedom of relationship is at the end.

01:08:37

And that is really about how to be a good who for others.

01:08:41

And that leads into the conclusion.

01:08:44

I will say that if you listen to Dan much, he's got a podcast or used to have a

01:08:52

podcast, anyways, called 10x talk that he did with another

01:08:55

strategic coach guy named Joe Polish.

01:09:00

And I used to listen to that podcast fairly, fairly regularly.

01:09:04

And I don't think there was very many episodes where Dan didn't mention

01:09:10

Babs, like you never hear Babs in any of the strategic coach stuff.

01:09:14

I can't say that for the live stuff, because I've never been to the live things.

01:09:16

But Dan is always crediting Babs and the support that she gives him for a lot

01:09:24

of strategic coaches success.

01:09:25

So I do think it's kind of cool that he does that.

01:09:29

I don't think it really fits.

01:09:30

That was probably like one of the bullet points when Dan and Dr.

01:09:35

Hardy were sitting down, like, okay, so I'm going to write this thing and he's like, okay,

01:09:38

so here's the deal.

01:09:38

This has got to be in there.

01:09:40

And Dr.

01:09:41

Hardy is like, okay, well, we'll figure out a way to make it work.

01:09:45

Let me slip this in at the end.

01:09:47

Yeah.

01:09:48

No, I don't know if that's actually what happened there, but

01:09:51

if you understand strategic coach as a whole, it feels like, well, yeah, that's

01:09:58

just what Dan would would do.

01:10:00

But I agree that it doesn't really fit the narrative.

01:10:04

But again, maybe if you flip those two parts, you know, part three and part four,

01:10:08

then it flows a little bit, a little bit better there.

01:10:11

I'm not sure.

01:10:11

Cool.

01:10:12

Cool.

01:10:13

What else, Mike, before we move on?

01:10:14

That's it.

01:10:15

All right.

01:10:16

So brings us to action items.

01:10:18

The list of action items in our show notes is empty.

01:10:23

So either you didn't put them in.

01:10:27

I didn't put them in because I didn't have any because it just seems like this is

01:10:31

one of those you need to be aware of it.

01:10:34

At least in my current situation, I need to be aware of it.

01:10:37

I don't have any like active, you know, maybe the organizational side of trying

01:10:42

to find another person on my team, but that's like an already in play thing.

01:10:47

So I would just be continuing an already existing action.

01:10:50

So that don't think that makes sense.

01:10:51

But as far as like personal life, I just don't have anything I feel like I want to put

01:10:56

here to talk about for next time.

01:10:58

How about you?

01:10:59

I do have one back in chapter three.

01:11:05

He encourages us to add at least one who in the next 90 days, which that whole chapter

01:11:11

three, he talks about the fact that you can make massive progress in 90 days and he has

01:11:17

this concept of a moving future where he asks a couple of these strategic questions.

01:11:22

It's kind of like a personal retreat.

01:11:24

That's how I read it.

01:11:25

I like my version better, but you know, whatever.

01:11:28

But I did jot down that action item though of adding at least one who in the next

01:11:35

90 days, I think I even know who it's going to be.

01:11:38

It just needs.

01:11:40

Needs a little bit more clarity so that they can do it.

01:11:47

Well, I can talk about it here, I guess, but I know one of the bottlenecks for me with

01:11:54

YouTube stuff is that I have to edit everything.

01:11:58

And I would love to offload that to Toby or Joshua if they've got time and and

01:12:04

capability and capacity to help with that sort of stuff.

01:12:08

I feel like they might even do a better job of it than I do.

01:12:12

I know what all the pieces are.

01:12:15

I've gone through part time, YouTuber Academy.

01:12:17

I've got all the notes.

01:12:19

I've got my process.

01:12:20

I started building all these checklists in obsidian and those drive like everything that I do.

01:12:27

So I just have to like kind of talk through or write out my process for these

01:12:32

individual steps and it's things like use these transitions and they should be this long

01:12:38

and that kind of stuff.

01:12:39

But once I do that, I feel like I could crank out a lot more YouTube videos.

01:12:47

If I didn't have to do the editing now, I'm at the point, you know, talking about

01:12:53

freedom of money, like I don't have a lot of money to throw at this currently, but I am at the

01:12:59

cusp of being monetized on YouTube.

01:13:01

So it's almost to the point where the more videos I'm able to make and the better

01:13:11

the videos are because I'm now no longer the bottleneck.

01:13:14

Ultimately, the more money I would be able to make from those.

01:13:18

And I don't know.

01:13:19

Maybe it's going to be a long time before I'm actually making money from from YouTube.

01:13:23

I'm sure my first check is going to be like five cents or something, but I

01:13:29

recognize that that's an opportunity where that bottleneck that he's trying to address

01:13:33

in this book could manifest in my life.

01:13:36

So I'm trying to be a little bit proactive in that and find a find a who.

01:13:42

But I like that 90 day time period too.

01:13:44

I may just kind of incorporate that into my personal retreat.

01:13:48

It's like, who's a what are the bottlenecks in my business right now and who's a who

01:13:52

that can help me help me alleviate those?

01:13:55

Sounds good.

01:13:57

All right.

01:13:58

Style on rating.

01:13:58

Uh, so I had the initial comment I made about this is Benjamin Hardy's writing for Dan Sullivan.

01:14:06

So I, that, that point that I made early on kind of sticks in the back of my brain, uh, as a, as I come to this.

01:14:14

So this is Benjamin Hardy's writing that we're talking about.

01:14:17

This is not Dan Sullivan's writing here.

01:14:20

And there was one, and maybe this is me being nitpicky.

01:14:25

I don't know.

01:14:25

But he would regularly like tell a story at the beginning of a chapter, but then spend the other half to two thirds of it, explaining it and explaining the concept.

01:14:37

That's not bad per se.

01:14:40

I think the problem for me with that is that I've been spoiled by a number of these five star books that we've been reading that.

01:14:47

It's mostly story with a little bit of explanation.

01:14:52

Like it's in the territory of like 75% story and 25% explanation.

01:14:59

This is not quite, but almost flipped.

01:15:02

And that, that was, I don't want to say jarring.

01:15:06

It was just different and it's not.

01:15:08

I didn't find it as like, I can just crank through this whole thing as a result of that.

01:15:14

It was a little bit harder for me to get through it.

01:15:17

As a result of that particular point.

01:15:21

So again, I think that's just a minor point here.

01:15:25

I don't think that's a major or a deal.

01:15:28

It's just a choice and how he chose to or how he put the book together.

01:15:32

There is, I think a little bit of limited scope in portions of this book and who it's applicable to.

01:15:41

Even the conclusion specifically points out successful entrepreneurs as an audience.

01:15:50

And that by itself would tell me that if you're a struggling entrepreneur, a new entrepreneur,

01:15:59

or somebody who wants to be an entrepreneur, this is going to not necessarily be applicable in some arenas.

01:16:07

Like there are definitely places where we've talked about.

01:16:09

Like you can definitely apply this.

01:16:10

Anybody can get something out of it.

01:16:14

But to be in the audience where all of it is 100% applicable, successful entrepreneur is the category you need to put yourself in.

01:16:23

Like you need to be able to say that I am a successful entrepreneur in order for 100% of this book to be applicable.

01:16:30

I'm not.

01:16:32

So there's that.

01:16:33

Do I wish I was?

01:16:36

I don't know.

01:16:37

I don't know that that's something I would want to call myself, but sounds cool.

01:16:41

As far as rating goes, because I feel like there's a little bit of a limited scope.

01:16:46

To this and because of some of the qualms with how it's written, I think it fits well in the 4.0 territory.

01:16:54

It's not like knock my socks off.

01:16:57

Sort of book.

01:16:59

There's definitely some really good points here.

01:17:01

There's some points.

01:17:01

I'm like that.

01:17:02

Okay, whatever.

01:17:03

And then there's also the little thought in the back of my head is like, well, you're just putting.

01:17:10

You know, new words to the concept of delegation.

01:17:13

I know that's not true.

01:17:15

I know that's not what he's doing is just like in the back of my mind, like that point is there.

01:17:22

So struggling with that one a little bit.

01:17:25

So all that said, I think 4.0 is where I want to put it.

01:17:28

So I will hand it off to you, Mike.

01:17:30

Tell me I'm wrong.

01:17:31

I don't think you're wrong.

01:17:34

I think you are dead on that 4.0 is the rating for this book.

01:17:39

I would argue that it's more applicable than people realize, but you do need to.

01:17:47

Do the work and apply it.

01:17:50

You mentioned successful entrepreneurs.

01:17:52

I think that successful in terms of larger businesses and have some money to throw out their problems is one way to define that.

01:18:01

But everyone is struggling in some way, shape or form.

01:18:05

And I know a lot of those types of entrepreneurs.

01:18:08

And they would find reasons not to listen to this too.

01:18:13

And they might be different.

01:18:14

They might be, well, no one can do the work as good as I can or no one's going to care as much about this thing as I will.

01:18:21

Everyone's going to have their own roadblock or the reasons why this isn't going to apply to them.

01:18:27

And just like the gap in the game, I feel like the real value here is understanding the concept and then taking a hard look at how in the world can I actually apply this.

01:18:39

Because it's not just with businesses, it could be applied with any team.

01:18:44

And the who not how model could be applied to someone running a ministry at church.

01:18:53

And you could be on either side of this.

01:18:56

You could be the who and you got to figure out how to work with somebody who doesn't understand the this whole model yet.

01:19:03

Or maybe you're hiring somebody to run or they're running something underneath you.

01:19:08

You could read this and be like, OK, I'm going to stay out of their way.

01:19:10

I'm going to give them some guidance, give them some clarity, but then give them the autonomy that they need to really soar with this thing, recognizing that you can insert yourself as a bottleneck in any of these situations.

01:19:22

So I think there's a lot to be gleaned here.

01:19:26

It's not my favorite Dan Sullivan slash Dr. Benjamin Hardy book.

01:19:32

I'll still pick the gap in the game as as better than than this one.

01:19:36

Yeah.

01:19:36

But I do think this is good.

01:19:38

And I think it's a really powerful concept.

01:19:40

And if you haven't heard about it before, it's worth picking up.

01:19:45

It's like 170 pages, but it's a fairly quick read, I feel.

01:19:50

Maybe that's just because we came from build last time.

01:19:54

Was a huge one.

01:19:56

Probably probably true.

01:19:58

That one's still back there.

01:19:59

Yeah.

01:19:59

Yeah.

01:20:00

But I think an argument could be made that this could have been a blog post and you're probably right.

01:20:07

It probably was a blog post at some point.

01:20:09

I don't think the way that they expanded the book is necessarily a bad thing.

01:20:13

And there are a lot of good stories here.

01:20:16

They're limited, maybe in their perspective with the stories.

01:20:20

That'd be one, one nitpick I have with with this.

01:20:23

They could maybe pick a few more relatable stories.

01:20:27

But overall, I still think there's some, some good stuff here.

01:20:30

So I'll join you at the 4.0.

01:20:32

Sounds good.

01:20:34

Time to go on the shelf with it.

01:20:35

What's next, Mike?

01:20:37

Next is Same as Ever by Morgan Housel.

01:20:41

And I haven't started this one yet.

01:20:44

Reason I picked this one is just I saw a lot of people talking about it, who I respect their book recommendations online.

01:20:50

A lot of people are saying some really good things about it.

01:20:53

So I'm excited to talk about it, but I really don't know what this is all about yet.

01:20:58

Cool.

01:20:59

How about you?

01:21:01

Yeah.

01:21:01

After that, we'll do noise.

01:21:04

This is by Daniel Kahneman.

01:21:06

And this came out last year, mid year, last year.

01:21:10

The tagline on it is a flaw in human judgment.

01:21:14

And this is basically an exploration of why people make bad judgments and how to make better ones.

01:21:21

So should be good.

01:21:24

I'm excited about it.

01:21:25

Super fun.

01:21:26

Any gap books, Mike?

01:21:28

No gap books this time.

01:21:30

Sorry.

01:21:31

How about you?

01:21:31

No, I was struggling with this one.

01:21:34

So there's that.

01:21:36

So no, no gap books.

01:21:38

Sad day, maybe over Christmas.

01:21:40

Definitely over Christmas.

01:21:42

Christmas is great for reading.

01:21:43

All right.

01:21:44

Well, thank you all for listening.

01:21:46

If you are reading along with us, pick up Same as Ever by Morgan

01:21:50

Housel and we will talk to you in a couple of weeks.