Bookworm Transcripts

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All right, Mike, you sent me a picture and you had a caption underneath of it that said,

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"This is your fault."

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And I have to admit, I don't feel bad given the number of things that you have sent to

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me that I have to tell you, "This is your fault."

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But you sent me a picture of a notebook with a fountain pen in it.

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I did.

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And I got super, super excited.

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Yeah, the gift you sent me was pretty awesome.

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I showed that to Rachel.

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She thought that was funny.

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Yes.

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So what is going on?

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Why?

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What happened?

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I'm excited.

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Tell me all the stuffs.

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I have a fancy fountain pen and it's not as fancy as probably many of yours, but it is...

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It's fairly fancy.

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I've heard you talk about it forever.

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I've heard David Sparks talk about it forever.

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I shared an Uber with Brad Dowdy, the pen addict, and all of those seeds that have been

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planted have manifested into a Shafer 300 fountain pen.

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I walked into Anderson pens in Appleton, Wisconsin.

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I said, "I need a fancy fountain pen for someone who has never had a fountain pen before.

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They showed me the really cheap ones.

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They showed me the next step up."

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And yeah, I walked out with a pen and a notebook and a lot less money in my wallet.

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Nice.

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What's the notebook?

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You said it was a Shafer 300, but what's the notebook?

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Well, I remember you were a big fan of the like term, so I have a like term, but I've

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actually set that aside.

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I don't really like the ghosting.

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I think it's called...

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No, feathering.

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I'm still new to all these terms.

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Okay.

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There's a little bit too much feathering for me with the Shafer.

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I went home and tried a Baron Fig.

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That seemed to be a little bit better.

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And I have one of these James Clear Baron Fig versions that I bought a long time ago

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just because I wanted to see all of the additional stuff that he put inside of the notebook.

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Never really intended to use it, but it does have a really cool cover.

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And once I decided that the Baron Fig paper was the one that I liked out of the stuff that

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I had accessible to me, I decided to use this.

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I've also got a rodeo web notebook.

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I bought one off of Amazon, a bigger one because I wanted to experiment with the larger size.

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I know that there's a larger version of this James Clear Baron Fig.

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That's probably the one that I'm going to use going forward just because I like the way

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that it looks.

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And I like the feel of the Shafer 300 on the Baron Fig paper.

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And the way I'm using this, which is really probably what people actually care about, is

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I wanted to rethink how I planned my day.

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I talked a little bit about this on the latest episode of Focused.

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So I won't retell the whole thing, but basically what was happening was I was trying to fill

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out my custom good notes template at the very end of my day, or if I didn't get to it, the

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very beginning of my day.

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And I found that I was waking up in the morning.

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If I hadn't done it the night before, I was just completely skipping over it and just

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entering right into my work.

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And I'm like, I know that I should be doing this.

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And why am I not doing this, basically?

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And I realized that it was because there is, it doesn't take me that long.

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It takes me like five minutes.

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But by the time I fill it out, it's like that is going to be wrong.

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And because I was trying to position that as my plan for the day, I was getting kind

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of frustrated that it was so wrong so often.

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So what I've started to do is incorporate a new shutdown routine where I actually fill

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out that template as the last thing I do during my work day, the day before.

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So like four or five o'clock, that's when I fill out the good notes template.

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So it just takes five minutes.

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And then when I wake up in the morning, I look at that.

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I also check base camp to see if anything that the team needs, see if that kind of changes

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how I need to think about my day.

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And then I just write down three things that I want to do today.

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It's a very, very simple list, but it's almost like because I did the plan the night before,

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it gives it allows me to be wrong.

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It allows me to just chuck it.

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It's almost like the value associated with that now is clearing my brain at the end of

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the day instead of trying to articulate a clear plan for the next day.

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And that has stuck other than me being sick for about a week and not doing any of this.

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It's been really great.

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And then what I also find is like once I have the three things for the day that I work off

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of on the simple checklist, I also am liking just kind of doodling and thinking through

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my pen on the rest of the pages there.

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So as I think about different things that I want to do, or maybe there's different angles

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I want to consider for an app review or an article I want to write or how I want to reposition

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some things, that has been really great because it forces me to move more slowly.

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Then anything digital.

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So I really like that.

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Well, welcome to the dark side of analog.

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Yeah, thanks a lot.

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It can get expensive quickly.

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It's what I hear.

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Some people talk about how like all the task management apps and such can get expensive

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when you're trying to like explore them and figure out which one works best for you.

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But nothing compared to fountain pens.

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It doesn't even scratch the surface compared to the analog side of things because just

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the sheer volume of notebooks and pens and things that you can't.

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I mean, you can do this cheap.

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I mean, you can do it with a big pen and a notepad from a hotel.

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You can do that.

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But why would you do that?

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So yes, I'm happy to have you on my side of things now.

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Makes me happy.

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Speaking of analog productivity stuff, there's something else I want to mention here.

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David and I recorded an episode of Focus on Calendars.

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That episode, I was really happy with the way it turned out.

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We also made an announcement in that episode.

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We have a custom branded focused New Year calendar.

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Are you familiar with New Year, Joe?

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Hey, I am.

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These are pretty cool calendars.

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They are.

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I've used one of these the last several years.

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I don't even remember how long I've had these probably five or six years at least.

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And it's a wall calendar that shows a whole year at a glance, but instead of having like

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12 different boxes for the months, they kind of all run together so you can see how things

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tie together.

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It just gives you a more cohesive view of your entire year.

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And we've got a Focus branded one with a couple touches on there that are additional

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features basically.

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So in addition to the cool looking focus logo in the top and the tagline, it's got shading

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behind the different quarters.

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So you can kind of at a glance see your 12 week year if you wanted to use that sort of framework

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or like the personal retreat framework, for example, it's perfect for implementing something

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like that.

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Because you can kind of see where your deadlines line up in terms of your your 12 week year

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and all the other things that you would want to put on.

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There's a key at the bottom that you can color code, which if you're going to follow the 12

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week year and you're going to build out the habits, that's a really effective way to track

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that sort of stuff.

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I use mine just as like a big picture sort of thing where I've got all the the big stuff

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for the year on that that I'm going to be doing.

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So I've got like the really five year anniversary thing that I went to, max stock, sabbaticals,

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speech contests, all that type of stuff.

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So I can kind of see a landscape of my year and I can see that, you know, in June, for

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example, I was at Craft and Commerce and less than a week later, I get back and I'm going

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to Costa Rica on a missions trip.

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So if somebody wants me to do something in June, it's right by my desk.

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I just look at that and oh, nope, that's not a good idea.

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I got a lot going on.

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So these calendars, I'm really happy with the way that they they turned out.

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They are $29.

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We'll put the link in the show notes for anybody who wants to get one and that $29 actually

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includes free shipping.

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So it's flat $29 if you're going to buy it and get it shipped somewhere in the US.

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I'm not sure what the shipping would be if you live outside the US.

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Sorry about that.

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Gosh, Mike, can't do free shipping to anywhere in the world.

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I feel like that would be really expensive to do.

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Calendar is our kind of tricky to ship.

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They come in these big tubes.

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Oh, I'm sure.

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Yeah.

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So I'm glad I don't have to figure that part out.

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Fair enough.

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Fair enough.

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I'm looking through our follow up list.

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We got the pins.

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We got the calendar.

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Ooh, you did something fun.

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I did.

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I mentioned a while ago one of my gap books was Tools and Weapons by Brad Smith, who's

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the president of Microsoft.

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And I was walking through Appleton the other day and I cut through the local university

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and they have this campus center.

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And I was took the long way back basically from the coffee shop that I like to work from.

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Went through this campus center and saw the sign that said that the author, Brad Smith,

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was going to be speaking at the university in like five days.

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So I actually signed up.

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It was free to go to.

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And I saw him talk about his book, which was really interesting.

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It's kind of cool.

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The book itself talks about the role of data in the economy going forward and basically

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how that's the thing that's so valuable and how it can be used for good or it could be

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used for evil.

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And it's kind of interesting.

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Some of the things that Microsoft specifically because he's the president of Microsoft has

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done in terms of protecting people's data.

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Like he talked about how it's going to change the way that people work, but maybe not necessarily

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in a bad way.

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So for example, he has a chapter in the book about the day the horses lost their jobs.

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And the story he tells is how they had this last run of the New York City fire department

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when they retired the horses and they switched over to the gasoline engines for the trucks.

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And how that actually had a lot of economic implications because a lot of the farmers that

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were producing crops were producing a lot of hay.

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Now there were less horses.

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They couldn't produce as much hay.

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They tried to produce more tobacco and wheat and things like that.

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But there wasn't that much demand for those things.

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And so the farmers felt it negatively and then people made the argument.

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Brad Smith didn't that the rural banks did poorly because the farmers did poorly and

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then the bigger banks and that kind of was an accelerant to the whole Great Depression.

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I don't know how true that part actually is.

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But the thing that came out of that was the automobile industry and how it actually created

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a lot of jobs.

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So it was a really eye-opening book because he talks about this going forward and how

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data is going to eliminate a lot of the jobs that exist currently.

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But that doesn't mean there's going to be less jobs.

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It just means that you kind of have to rethink our skill sets and then also all the ethical

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implications of controlling all this data.

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He mentioned that Microsoft has gotten approached by countries where their dictators and they

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want to use facial recognition and all this to control the population and gather all this

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data and Microsoft is just like, "No, we're not going to do that."

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But it's kind of scary because there are companies that will do that.

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They're not going to draw the line there.

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So it's not something that has an easy answer.

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This is wrong.

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This is right.

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It's still something that people need to figure out.

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It was kind of interesting to hear him talk about some of the ways that Microsoft is trying

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to handle those questions in an ethical manner.

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But yeah, it was really good.

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I didn't get to meet him personally, but I did get to see him speak.

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I was about 15 feet away from him.

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So that was fun.

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Hi, Brad.

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Cool.

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For the listeners, you've probably picked up by now.

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Mike and I might sound a little funny.

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And it's because mostly due to me, we put the show off a week.

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And it's primarily because I've had a cold so bad I haven't been able to talk.

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Mike has had some similar scenario as well.

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And we're kind of still coming out of it.

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So we're going to power through today and do our best with reviewing today's book, which

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is kind of ironic given our health state right now.

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But before I do that, I want to a bit of a game of sorts with the members, especially

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those who are listening live.

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But something we usually do is we pick books from the recommendations list.

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And I'm not really sure why I came up with this idea, Mike, and I haven't even run it

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by Mike.

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So this is news to Mike as well.

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But I have my book picked for the next round that I have.

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So Mike's book is next mine following that I have selected.

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But the one that I'm going to choose following that one, I want to come direct one on one

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from a member.

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So here's how this works.

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The very first member who sends me a private message on the bookworm club.

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Send me the one book you want to hear us cover and I will pick that book.

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Like, oh boy.

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Number one, you have to be a member and you have to be the first one to send me a private

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message.

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Like that's, that's, that's all I'm saying.

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Okay.

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Leading into today's book and the reason I was saying it's a bit ironic that we're covering

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this super better by Jane McGonigal.

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Tagline on this is a revolutionary approach to getting stronger, happier, braver, and

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more resilient and has an asterisk powered by the science of games.

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And you need to know that Jane McGonigal has a PhD in the science of gaming and how the

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benefits and detriments of gaming on your brain and your, your social status, your relationships,

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et cetera, et cetera.

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And she had a bit of a crisis herself in that she had a concussion.

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I don't think she ever said how she got the concussion, just that she had a pretty severe

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concussion and that she in the process of healing, it took her, I think it was a little

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over a year to fully heal from that.

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But she developed this game called Super Better to help her through the process of healing

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from that concussion.

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And that is what became this book that we're covering today, Super Better.

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This is a book about that game and how you can apply it to your life as well.

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It's fascinating read.

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I was not real sure what to expect when I picked it up.

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I didn't realize that Super Better was the name of a game.

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You can play Super Better.

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But it's a fascinating read.

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I felt anyway.

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What were your initial thoughts on it, Mike?

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I really enjoyed the book overall.

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Her story was really interesting.

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I also have had a concussion.

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So I know a little bit of what she's dealing with, her symptoms were way worse than mine.

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I didn't even know I had a concussion until I went into the doctor because my headaches

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kept getting worse.

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But she was in a pretty dark place.

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And so it's kind of cool how she used this whole idea of, I guess, gamification to kind

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of turn her life around.

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She was dealing with suicidal ideation.

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And she said in the introduction to the book that basically she was going to either end

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up killing herself or she was going to have to beat this and the way that she did that

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was by treating it as a game.

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I think the method that she used is really cool.

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I like the seven steps or the seven rules that she outlines in the book.

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I did look at the Super Better app right at the beginning.

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And I have to admit that I don't think I'm going to be using this app.

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But no, elements of this I definitely want to apply.

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You should know the app was sold off recently.

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I think it was about a year ago because I think this was written what?

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In 14, 15.

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But the app is under new ownership.

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So it's not under jeans company anymore.

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It's its own thing.

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So just be aware of that.

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Okay.

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Well, the app itself is pretty horrible on an iPhone anyways.

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I'm trying to look at when it was last updated.

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It says five months ago, but the like you open it up and the keyboard doesn't even look

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right.

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It looks like an iPhone five size, size interface.

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So right away I knew I wasn't going to follow that method.

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But I really think you don't need to.

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I think there's a lot in this book that you can you can take an apply without actually

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joining the super better community.

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Although she does the way it's written.

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Obviously that's it's kind of a sales pitch for for that program, I guess.

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Maybe it's the better way to frame it.

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But it's not I wouldn't say it's explicit.

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Like it's it's hard to catch that.

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Correct.

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But she's talking about her story and then she talks about other people who have gone

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through it and there's a lot of those stories in here and she she does mention you can

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use use this during the community yada yada yada throughout.

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So I had a little bit of trouble figuring out how I was going to do that in a non super

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better calm way.

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Sure.

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Sure.

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Well, let's let's run through the book because I'm sure more of that will come out as we

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go, especially once we get down towards the end of some of this.

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But again, this is a book in three parts as they all do.

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Well, I shouldn't say they all do 99.99% of these books are three parts.

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Part one, why games make us super better.

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Part two is how to be gameful.

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And then part three is adventures.

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So let's start with part one, which is basically any and all science you can come up with that

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show the benefit of playing games, whether it's video games, board games, card games,

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etc.

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Doesn't matter.

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You know, what what are the aspects of games that can be applied to real life?

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I can't say there's anything just super groundbreaking in this particular part that stood out to

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me other than the one point that she makes about because you see the science that says

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gaming is ruining our children.

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And on the other side of the coin, you'll see things where it's like games are helping

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people increase their willpower.

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Like you see these studies that seem to be contradicting each other back and forth.

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And she she goes into why some of that is is at odds with each other.

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The primary being what is the intent of you playing that game?

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And the negative side of it is if you're using that game, especially video games as an escape

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from the real world, that's when the negative detriments tend to come out.

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On the flip side of that is if you are using the game to connect with other people in real

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life, whether it's via virtual communication or it's in person, whether you're playing

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the game with someone sitting right next to you.

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Whenever you do it in that form, that's when the benefits of playing these video games

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comes out.

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So just be aware that there are she does call out the difference between the science that

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shows like games are horrible and games are amazing.

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She does at least address that.

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Yeah, the first chapter was interesting.

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She talks a lot about PTSD and specifically burn victims.

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And she uses a lot of stories like this, but I'll just tell this this one as an example.

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She mentions that people who have severe burns, she makes the statement that nothing is more

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painful than a severe burn.

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And the traditional treatment for a severe burn is morphine.

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But what they did is they had a virtual reality game called Snow World, which actually proved

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to be better than the morphine by about 30 to 50% in terms of helping people deal with

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the pain.

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It allowed the players to kind of forget about their burns for a little while.

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So escaping reality in one sense for the average person is probably not a great goal.

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But if you are trying to overcome a specific medical condition like a severe burn, it can

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actually be used in a positive way like that.

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And it really just shows that you're not powerless against your pain signals.

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You can do something about them.

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You have to learn to take your attention and put it on something else.

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I think she calls that spotlighting.

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I'm trying to scroll through my mind node file here.

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It's pretty huge for this particular book because it's a pretty long book.

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Yeah, it is.

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But I think that's a really cool idea and it's something that anybody could implement.

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Another example from that first chapter was the whole idea of playing Tetris for a couple

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of minutes.

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It doesn't have to be Tetris specifically, but it does have to be the type of game where

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you're doing a massive amount of constant visual processing.

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If you play Tetris for a couple of minutes when you're experiencing a craving, then you

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can reduce that craving by up to 25%.

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That was really interesting in a smaller version maybe of the spotlighting that maybe is more

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practical for people who you're trying to quit smoking for example and you feel the urge

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to have a cigarette, play Tetris for a couple of minutes and see if it goes away.

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That's kind of a cool strategy I think.

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It's a fun way to bring games into dealing with addictions.

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Sure.

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She does have a lot of stories about how games are used to apply to difficult situations.

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She also spells out some that are very positive, like how dads will get into gaming with their

00:23:28

sons or their daughters as a way to build their relationship with them.

00:23:34

I could see a lot of potential value in that.

00:23:38

As someone who is far from a video gamer, I've never been into video gaming really in

00:23:44

any way, shape, or form.

00:23:46

I don't know that I'm going to get into video gaming, but I at least have a better perspective

00:23:54

on those who do and feel like I can at least converse with folks who do.

00:23:59

So there's that.

00:24:00

It at least gave me a terminology.

00:24:02

Sure.

00:24:03

Well, I really like the idea of gaming together, but not just video games.

00:24:10

The thing that happens, whether you're playing a video game or an actual game, she kind of

00:24:15

talks about in chapter two, which is the mirroring or the mimicking.

00:24:21

You kind of like match up with the person that you're playing with.

00:24:25

An example of this could be you're walking next to somebody down the sidewalk and eventually

00:24:32

you will sync up in your steps will kind of match as you're walking in together and

00:24:36

maybe you're talking.

00:24:37

I have seen that happen and didn't really realize that's what was happening, but that's

00:24:42

what happens.

00:24:43

And when you play a game with somebody, that's kind of the same thing kind of happens.

00:24:48

So actually, since I read this, we've had an opportunity because I haven't been feeling

00:24:54

well and I've been home a lot.

00:24:56

And we've played several games as a family in the last week and a half or so.

00:25:01

And it's been fun.

00:25:02

I can see now having read this book, how that does actually help strengthen the relationships.

00:25:09

But I also noticed that I have to approach it the right way.

00:25:12

So in the past, I especially when playing with my family, it's kind of difficult because

00:25:22

we've got a couple of kids who are older and they like to play the more in depth games

00:25:27

and then some younger ones who can't do that.

00:25:32

So there's a balance there between the older ones being bored with something like sorry

00:25:38

and the younger ones like completely destroying something like castles of Mad King Ludwig.

00:25:44

Right?

00:25:45

Sure.

00:25:46

Sure.

00:25:47

And what that has caused me to do by default is I get focused on like trying to prevent

00:25:55

people from messing up the game as opposed to entering in and enjoying the game.

00:26:02

And that's something that I've been working on as we played several games recently.

00:26:10

And I guess I'm noticing that I'm getting better at this where if I were to sit down

00:26:16

with you and Josh and maybe somebody else were playing a board game as adults, it probably

00:26:22

is a lot easier for me to just enjoy the game, right?

00:26:26

But I have to work at that when I'm playing the game with my kids in order to protect

00:26:32

the benefits, the sinking benefits that can happen there.

00:26:36

I guess kind of when I started doing this, I was realizing that yeah, I was playing the

00:26:40

games, but I wasn't doing it right.

00:26:43

So I've kind of modified that a little bit, kind of loosened up a little bit.

00:26:48

And it's been a lot more enjoyable because of that.

00:26:51

Good for you.

00:26:52

So see, now you can get super better at playing games.

00:26:55

Good job, Mike.

00:26:56

It is fun.

00:26:57

And it's interesting to see how it impacts my kids by the time that we're done.

00:27:04

I've kind of approached the last couple of games that we played that way where I've kept

00:27:10

an eye out for what are their facial expressions or how are they acting by the time the game

00:27:17

is done, whether or not they end up winning or doing well.

00:27:22

And it's been interesting because what happens is like my oldest son is a lot like me and

00:27:33

he doesn't like to lose, right?

00:27:35

Sure.

00:27:36

And the first time that we played a game after I read this book and he didn't do well, I

00:27:42

noticed he was a little bit frustrated or aggravated.

00:27:46

But also that was the one where I recognized that I was more so trying to keep everybody

00:27:54

else away from the game so we could actually play it and I wasn't really engaged in the

00:28:00

game itself.

00:28:02

And then several times since then we've played and if I can cut through all of the noise

00:28:12

that's happening around us and I can just focus on enjoying the game.

00:28:16

That has an impact in my kids where even if I trounse him in castles, it's hard to explain

00:28:28

but there's a joy there that wasn't there because of the way the game was played and

00:28:34

it's kind of sobering to recognize that as the adult I have the ability to control that

00:28:41

and the responsibility I would say.

00:28:44

So don't mess it up, Dad.

00:28:46

Be good, Dad.

00:28:47

Make it good for everybody.

00:28:49

I totally get that.

00:28:50

I mean, we don't do a ton of games.

00:28:52

We've been doing it more in last year or so but the girls have a few smaller kid like

00:28:59

board games that we play once in a while and if I get super into it, they get super into

00:29:07

it and the more fun I have with it, the more fun they have with it.

00:29:10

So yeah, I can totally see how like your perspective on it goes all very long ways, especially

00:29:16

with children for sure.

00:29:19

Let's step into part two here, Mike, of how to be gameful.

00:29:23

I feel like there's a lot of things we could continue talking about like the fun of games

00:29:27

and the science.

00:29:28

I think maybe going through what Superbetter is and like how that builds out would be a

00:29:35

good next step.

00:29:36

Unless there's something specific you want to cover more on part one.

00:29:38

No, we can go into part two but I will say that the thing that stands out to me from

00:29:45

part one is that games are a relationship building tool and so that's where one of my

00:29:51

action items comes from.

00:29:54

I don't want to have a specific day of the week necessarily be like a we're going to

00:29:58

play games on this day but I do want to start having more family game nights like that play

00:30:05

with purpose is kind of the thing I wrote down here and it could be, you know, we they

00:30:10

love it when we play Mario Kart on the switch as a family too and we just, you know, keep

00:30:13

rotating.

00:30:14

It could be board games but that's something that I want to do more of because when you

00:30:20

play a game you do have a broad range of emotional reactions.

00:30:26

You have to you have to deal with frustration and anxiety when you're not doing well and

00:30:33

I've she talks about that in chapter four but I feel like there's a lot of benefit from

00:30:38

that I feel like this is something that can draw, draw us closer together as a family

00:30:44

and so I want to, I want to use this more frequently when instead of just, you know,

00:30:49

putting on a movie or whatever where it be a more intentional and in playing games.

00:30:54

Sure.

00:30:55

No, it makes a lot of sense.

00:30:57

So let's step into what is super better the game itself.

00:31:02

How to be gameful and there are seven rules that come with this particular game.

00:31:09

We'll go through each one of these and some of them will be quick.

00:31:12

Some of them will probably spend a little more time on because some of them I feel like

00:31:15

are, you know, pretty minor.

00:31:17

It's like once you understand it, well, that's it.

00:31:19

That's it and it's done.

00:31:21

The first of this, let me just run through.

00:31:24

Here's what the seven are.

00:31:26

Challenge yourself, power ups, bad guys, quests, allies, your secret identity and epic wins.

00:31:35

So those are the seven.

00:31:36

So the first one of those is challenge yourself and I mean, this is basically the purpose

00:31:42

of the game.

00:31:43

Like what is it that you're trying to become super better at and she clarifies the difference

00:31:50

between getting super better at something as opposed to getting super better from something.

00:31:59

And like personally, whenever I was going through this particular chapter, it's like,

00:32:02

well, what is my challenge?

00:32:04

It's pretty obvious for me is like, I need to try to beat Lyme disease.

00:32:08

And recently I found out I have a mold infection as well.

00:32:11

Great fun.

00:32:12

So basically I have a lot of health issues and it would be very easy for me to take what

00:32:18

she says here is like, oh, yeah, I need to get super better from Lyme disease.

00:32:23

No, that's that's not the point because what you're doing there is you're saying that you're

00:32:28

making the negative part of your whole challenge as opposed to shooting to become super better

00:32:37

at being healthy.

00:32:39

Like that's a very different perspective because you're focusing on the positive side

00:32:44

of it and that focus on the negative or the positive is extremely important for your mental

00:32:49

state as to how you go through the rest of the game.

00:32:52

Just like what you were talking about, Mike, with the kids, like they pick up your negative

00:32:55

or your mental or your positive mental state, like on how you're approaching the game.

00:33:00

This is the same thing just with yourself.

00:33:03

You have to be focused on the right side of it.

00:33:07

Otherwise the whole time you're just focusing on the bad parts of what you're dealing with

00:33:11

and the whole thing can become negative in itself.

00:33:14

Yeah, the challenges that you face when you apply a gameful approach to them, they become

00:33:23

more fun and engaging instead of, oh, I wish this wasn't happening to me, basically.

00:33:29

Because with a game, you volunteer to be challenged and you can apply that mindset even if you're

00:33:35

facing something that you didn't really sign up for by applying the gameful approach, you

00:33:40

basically put yourself in a position where you're more motivated to overcome it, which

00:33:46

is kind of the author's story from the very beginning.

00:33:50

You can turn anxiety into a excitement through a process she calls cognitive reappraisal,

00:33:59

where it's how you change, how you think or you feel about a stressful problem in your

00:34:04

life.

00:34:05

This is something that I struggle with.

00:34:09

I'm not sure it's as simple as she makes it sound.

00:34:14

But basically when you find yourself being anxious about something, she's saying, tell

00:34:17

yourself, get excited because physiologically they're the same emotion and when you feel

00:34:23

anxious, it's easier to get excited than it is to calm down.

00:34:28

I haven't really had an opportunity to try this.

00:34:32

Have you done anything with this?

00:34:34

I did it right before we started recording.

00:34:36

Okay.

00:34:37

How's it working?

00:34:40

It's helped me.

00:34:41

I was ready to go lay down before I got started here.

00:34:43

So by saying, hey, let's get excited about recording Bookworm.

00:34:47

My voice isn't necessarily there, but I feel like my mental state's fine.

00:34:52

Sure.

00:34:53

Whereas 30, 40 minutes ago, I was ready for a nap.

00:34:58

Yeah, I could take a nap too.

00:35:02

I guess the way she describes it though, I feel like maybe, okay, so maybe I do this

00:35:07

a little bit already, but I think that just saying, I'm anxious about this thing and instead

00:35:12

I'm going to be excited, that doesn't seem to jive real well with me.

00:35:17

Maybe that just shows that I really need to do this though.

00:35:20

Yeah, because I had the same reaction to that.

00:35:23

I'm not one that's going to make that move.

00:35:28

I'm just not one that seems to, this is horrible for me.

00:35:33

I'm going to turn it for good.

00:35:35

Nope.

00:35:36

It's still horrible.

00:35:37

It's just going to be that way.

00:35:40

I kind of had that thought when I first went through it, which I'm with you.

00:35:48

It just doesn't seem right, but the more times I think about it and have marinated on that

00:35:52

concept, the more I realize it's probably spot on.

00:35:58

I have to let go of that negative thinking in order to get past.

00:36:03

So much of this book is how you think.

00:36:05

Yep.

00:36:06

I wasn't really expecting, I guess.

00:36:08

I don't know what I was expecting, but it's so much about your perspective and how you

00:36:14

view things as opposed to the things you physically do.

00:36:17

I think this is the same thing here, Mike.

00:36:20

Yes, you may be anxious about something, but being willing to try to turn it on its head,

00:36:26

get excited about it, use the same physiological response of anxiety, which corresponds to excitement.

00:36:34

Just switching your view on that.

00:36:36

I feel it could be helpful.

00:36:38

I haven't specifically done that itself, but I can't refute it either.

00:36:45

Yeah, I don't know.

00:36:47

I mean, I've kind of done this with Toastmasters, and I have told this story many times, but

00:36:55

I was just like everybody else the first time that I went and was terrified of getting

00:36:58

up and speaking in front of somebody.

00:37:00

But the more that I did it, the more I realized that that's actually something I really enjoy.

00:37:06

It doesn't mean I don't get nervous or anxious.

00:37:09

I've just done it enough where I know what the end result is going to be now.

00:37:15

And so I look forward to it almost instead of approaching it apprehensively.

00:37:23

So that mindset shift kind of happens there, but it's not something that I tell myself

00:37:28

before I get up to give a speech.

00:37:30

Okay, you're really anxious right now.

00:37:32

So instead be excited about this.

00:37:35

It just kind of happens.

00:37:38

I don't know.

00:37:39

And I have trouble believing that the act of saying, okay, I'm going to get excited about

00:37:44

this instead is enough to make it go from negative to positive, but I haven't really been

00:37:52

able to test that either.

00:37:53

So I figure it can't hurt.

00:37:56

No, it can't hurt.

00:37:58

Especially if you've got to do it anyways.

00:38:01

Yep.

00:38:02

Yep, for sure.

00:38:04

So the purpose of this chapter is choose to be gameful about something that you want

00:38:10

to become super better at with health.

00:38:14

And she does lay out a lot of what these could be.

00:38:18

Some people are trying to become more fit, get a new job, recover from a cancer scenario.

00:38:27

You know, it could be all kinds of things.

00:38:30

The loss of a loved one, like it could be a lot of things.

00:38:33

And the spectrum is wide of the stories that she has been told on how people have used

00:38:41

this system.

00:38:42

So step one, select your challenge.

00:38:46

Going into the following step, the second rule here, power ups.

00:38:49

Yep, collect power ups, which is exactly what you would expect it to be.

00:38:53

Yeah.

00:38:54

So what is it that gives you that little bit of a boost as bookworms we could easily say

00:39:01

that, you know, taking time to sit down a read 15, 20 minutes or so in a day, like to

00:39:07

me, that's a definite power up.

00:39:10

If it's connecting with a friend or, you know, one of my girls, like those can all be power

00:39:15

ups, but there are small things that you do to give you a short term boost to help you

00:39:22

get through whatever the thing is that you're trying to become super better at.

00:39:27

Again, exactly the way you would expect it to be.

00:39:30

Yep.

00:39:31

She defines power up as any positive action that you can take easily that creates a quick

00:39:35

moment of pleasure, strength, courage, or connection for you.

00:39:40

The other thing that's interesting in this section is the whole idea of the emotion ratio,

00:39:46

which is obviously tied to the power ups because power ups make you feel good, but the number

00:39:53

of positive emotions divided by the negative emotions is this emotion ratio.

00:39:57

And we've kind of heard this before, but relationships and marriages specifically tend to thrive

00:40:03

when their positive ratio is like five to one and the closer you get to one to one, the

00:40:08

more likely you are to separate or get divorced.

00:40:11

And I'd heard that part before, but she also said in here that one to one is actually pretty

00:40:15

close to clinical depression and telling yourself to avoid negative emotions, which is typically

00:40:21

the advice that people give someone who is dealing with this stuff doesn't work.

00:40:26

You know, just stop feeling bad for yourself.

00:40:28

It's not that simple.

00:40:29

You have to create the more positive version of that.

00:40:33

So I do think that the connection here is really interesting because if you can identify your

00:40:40

power ups, you can use those as quick, positive emotion boosts whenever you need them.

00:40:49

And I have an action item here to identify my power ups.

00:40:53

I've been thinking about this a little bit.

00:40:55

I don't have them all identified.

00:40:58

Have you thought about any of your power ups?

00:41:01

I have, you know, as I was going through this, I was thinking through like, what are like,

00:41:07

could some of these be and maybe it'll be helpful just to share what I've got here.

00:41:13

Because I have a handful, like write a thank you letter, send a thank you email, watch

00:41:20

a YouTube video about puppies, snuggle my girls, hug a friend, do a short term digital

00:41:30

detox, share my personal honest thoughts with a friend.

00:41:35

And then I've got a couple songs here that have a lot of meaning to me that just sit down

00:41:39

and listen to these songs.

00:41:41

Those are some of the power ups that I have written down.

00:41:44

I've been continuing to add to that as I think about things.

00:41:48

But that's my starting point.

00:41:50

One of the ones that I've identified, which kind of made me mad, is mindfulness meditation.

00:42:01

Made you mad, but seems like a great power up because I struggle with it.

00:42:08

I think as I'm thinking through this, the main thing that has caused me to not embrace

00:42:18

that is this belief that I shouldn't need that.

00:42:23

You know, like I should be able to do this on my own.

00:42:26

I shouldn't have to rely on this.

00:42:28

But when you frame it as a power up, it's kind of stupid not to do that.

00:42:35

Five minutes a day.

00:42:38

And all of the benefits that it gives you.

00:42:41

I don't know.

00:42:42

It's when I frame it as a power up, it's like, yeah, it isn't something that I necessarily

00:42:47

need to do.

00:42:49

It's something that I want to do now.

00:42:51

And just framing it that way makes it a lot more sticky.

00:42:56

And I think that that's one for me.

00:42:59

Another one would be getting coffee with a friend.

00:43:04

I have kind of been lax in that, but I do recognize that those are the things that I

00:43:10

really do enjoy.

00:43:12

And I get so focused sometimes on all of the stuff I have to make and all the work I have

00:43:17

to do and all the projects I'm involved with, that that's one of the things that can easily

00:43:23

fall to the wayside.

00:43:25

Now, just to clarify something here, because like what you're saying, take grabbing coffee

00:43:33

with a friend, okay?

00:43:35

It's not exactly a short, quick thing you can do.

00:43:39

True.

00:43:40

Like that's a longer thing.

00:43:41

We'll get into this, but I would venture to say that's more of a quest than it is a power

00:43:47

up.

00:43:48

Could be.

00:43:49

In the scheme of all this.

00:43:50

Because later on, she'll give us a way to keep score.

00:43:56

And one of those is getting three power ups in a day.

00:44:00

Well, if you have something as, I don't want to say big, but something, you know, larger

00:44:06

in time commitment as like grabbing coffee with a friend.

00:44:10

If you think about doing that three times in a day, that's pretty much your day.

00:44:16

That would be pretty awesome.

00:44:17

That would be an awesome day.

00:44:18

Yes.

00:44:19

Yeah.

00:44:20

Work might suffer somewhat.

00:44:22

Yeah.

00:44:23

But you know, that's not necessarily something I feel would, to me it's too big of an item

00:44:30

to be classified as a power up.

00:44:32

But that might just me being getting into the details there.

00:44:36

It could be.

00:44:37

I thought about that because I, when I was thinking about the power ups, there are certain

00:44:43

power ups that are going to be bigger than others, just like in any video game.

00:44:50

You know, there's going to be something that gives you a little bit of health or something

00:44:56

that gives you an extra life.

00:44:58

You know, they're not all going to be the same.

00:45:01

For me, coffee with a friend, I'm going to drink coffee anyways.

00:45:04

So really the time investment here is probably about an hour max of social interaction.

00:45:11

And the thing that got me thinking that way was at the end of this chapter, I think she

00:45:15

talks about the social reflection power up where you think of three social interactions

00:45:20

from your day, you respond to two prompts on a scale of one to 10.

00:45:23

You answer, I felt closer to the other person or people or I felt in tune with the other

00:45:27

person or people.

00:45:28

And then you repeat that for at least three days to see any benefit.

00:45:32

As I was thinking about that, what are the situations where I do feel close to other people

00:45:36

or feel in tune with other other people?

00:45:39

I was picturing the situation where I would be able to answer tens for those.

00:45:43

And that would be if I met somebody for coffee.

00:45:45

Sure.

00:45:46

Yeah.

00:45:47

So this social reflection power, she's not specifically saying manufacture these interactions.

00:45:54

She's saying reflect on these and answer the questions.

00:45:58

I kind of took it a little bit different way where it was, how could I manufacture that?

00:46:02

Because there have been days even in the last week where I did not have three social interactions

00:46:07

in my day because I was just laying on the couch.

00:46:11

So I couldn't even take this approach for those.

00:46:15

But I don't know, that's just my situation.

00:46:18

But I think I would classify that as a part.

00:46:19

I definitely see how you could classify it as a quest though also.

00:46:24

And it could float back and forth too.

00:46:25

I could see that.

00:46:26

Yep.

00:46:27

Just depending on how difficult things are for you lately.

00:46:32

Yeah, I could see that.

00:46:34

So that's power-ups.

00:46:37

Would be the opposite of power-ups?

00:46:39

Bad guys.

00:46:41

Bad guys.

00:46:42

So got to watch out for the bad guys.

00:46:44

Yep.

00:46:45

Obviously.

00:46:46

Bad guys are basically anything that drives you further away from your goal.

00:46:52

And I haven't spent a whole lot of time trying to classify what my particular bad guys are.

00:47:00

I only have one written down at the moment and that's a bad night of sleep.

00:47:04

Like, okay, if I have a bad night of sleep, what does that mean?

00:47:07

Like, how do I battle a bad night of sleep?

00:47:11

And that's the concept here is like you have to identify your bad guys, go to battle with

00:47:18

them every day and continue to try to get past them.

00:47:22

I suppose if I stop and think through like a lot of my symptoms are that I could fight,

00:47:30

you know, that's a lot of like fatigue, joint pain, mental fogginess and such.

00:47:35

Like, those are the specifics that I could be going after and maybe those are what I

00:47:39

need to classify as bad guys.

00:47:41

But there are some like specific things that can happen that are outside of me that I then

00:47:47

need to go to war with, go to battle with.

00:47:50

But identifying them and determining who are those and what are those, you know, that's

00:47:57

the core component of this particular piece.

00:48:00

Yeah, I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about this specifically.

00:48:04

This is another action item I had was to identify my bad guys.

00:48:09

But I know that one of the things that I've been struggling with recently is I don't even

00:48:17

know how to articulate this as a bad guy, but I get so focused on the tasks that I need

00:48:24

to do or not even that I need to do the things that I want to do in terms of getting things

00:48:30

done that I don't recognize the opportunity to build the relationships in my day to day.

00:48:38

That's been a big factor in my switch over to using the pen and paper and just making

00:48:44

a simple list every day is I want to be more flexible and I want to be less connected

00:48:52

to my plan for the day so that I can take advantage of the little moments to build the

00:48:57

relationships throughout the day, if that makes any sense.

00:49:01

Basically I want to be more flexible.

00:49:03

That's kind of what I wrote down as I was thinking through my new daily planning thing

00:49:08

is I want to be able to flow with change.

00:49:11

And for someone who is very logical and likes to plan things and scope everything out and

00:49:19

this is exactly what we're going to do.

00:49:23

That's hard for me to just say, "Yeah, let's just go with the flow."

00:49:28

But blessed are the flexible, they shall not be bent out of shape.

00:49:31

That's what I want to do.

00:49:33

Nice.

00:49:34

So you need to take a page out of my book because my whole day is based on what happens when

00:49:40

I get to work.

00:49:41

Yeah.

00:49:42

That's pretty much what I do.

00:49:44

Because I'm terribly inefficient, right?

00:49:47

But sometimes that doesn't matter.

00:49:49

Sometimes there are things that are more important and just where I am right now that's what

00:49:55

I need to focus on.

00:49:56

Yeah.

00:49:57

I think not to go down bunny trails too far, but the main thing that I've learned with

00:50:04

that is just making sure that I have a plan that is able to fit in when I have gaps and

00:50:13

learning to switch to and from it very quickly.

00:50:17

That's really it.

00:50:18

Because if you take, for example, I was working at the church this morning and came home early

00:50:23

to record this, but this morning I had a number of things that was on my list to get

00:50:30

done today.

00:50:31

And none of them got done because I had so many things show up whenever I got there.

00:50:35

Sure.

00:50:36

Now, I also know later in the week, it's less likely for more things to show up because

00:50:41

early in the week is when most of that stuff pops up.

00:50:44

So I know I'll have time later on in the week to get to all of that.

00:50:48

So I just know that I'm going to have to flex across multiple days when things get done.

00:50:53

Yeah.

00:50:54

I'm not sure.

00:50:55

I think that's a bad guy for me, but I don't know how to articulate that necessarily,

00:51:01

Mr. Too Much Structure.

00:51:04

That's my bad guy.

00:51:06

Maybe.

00:51:07

Could be.

00:51:08

I could see that.

00:51:09

It doesn't really line up with the four super villains that she articulated.

00:51:14

She mentions the sticky chair, solitary confinement, the two-headed monster, and the guilty twin,

00:51:21

I believe, is Hashi to find him.

00:51:24

Yeah, she had her own bad guys, and she gave them all bad names.

00:51:28

Yep.

00:51:29

So that seems to be pretty common across the book, which I like that she did that.

00:51:36

It was really hard for me to embrace this concept of giving names to this stuff.

00:51:40

Like giving names to your power-ups, giving names to your bad guys.

00:51:45

I struggled with that too.

00:51:47

Go for it.

00:51:48

I absolutely adore that you do this.

00:51:50

It's fantastic.

00:51:51

I don't think I'm going to do that.

00:51:54

Yeah.

00:51:55

I love that you do it, and I love that other people do it.

00:51:58

It's not me.

00:52:00

So yeah.

00:52:01

It's way goes.

00:52:03

All right, so give yourself a challenge.

00:52:05

Define your power-ups.

00:52:06

Define your bad guys, and then go on a daily quest.

00:52:10

So every day, you're determining what your quest for the day is, and you're going to

00:52:14

go after it.

00:52:16

If you think about how you go about games, you have these smaller quests.

00:52:20

Go collect this or go achieve that small piece.

00:52:24

Run the car through this particular course.

00:52:27

You have these little quests that you go through.

00:52:29

This is the same thing.

00:52:31

Every day, you need to set a quest for yourself and go after it.

00:52:35

Go after achieving that.

00:52:36

This is why I was saying like, okay, something like going out for coffee could be qualified

00:52:41

as a quest because it's kind of a bigger thing to go after.

00:52:45

Yep.

00:52:46

I don't know what some of these would be for me.

00:52:50

In some cases, it could be something as simple as making sure I have my appointments in line.

00:52:55

It could be something like making sure I'm able to exercise for the day, which maybe could

00:53:03

be a power-up.

00:53:04

This is why I say it can sometimes float back and forth.

00:53:06

It just kind of depends on the scale of these two of how big is it and how small is it.

00:53:12

Does it qualify as a power-up?

00:53:13

Should it be a quest?

00:53:15

What is that?

00:53:16

Essentially, if you want to come back and boil it down to productivity terms, it's your daily

00:53:22

goal.

00:53:23

It's your one MIT for the day.

00:53:25

It's basically the way I saw it.

00:53:27

Maybe that's an incorrect way to say this or see it, but it's your goal for the day.

00:53:34

That's my perspective.

00:53:35

Yeah, I view this as the highlight from make time.

00:53:38

Yeah, that's a good way to do it.

00:53:40

That's why I had trouble defining getting coffee with a friend for me as a quest, because if

00:53:47

I get coffee with a friend, I have not one day.

00:53:53

That's one small thing, but it's not ever going to be the main thing.

00:53:59

Unfortunately, that would be awesome if I got to that point where that was the only thing

00:54:03

I had to do today.

00:54:04

Yeah, fair enough.

00:54:06

But the quest that she talks about, exercise, for example, and she talks about fun framing

00:54:13

that.

00:54:14

Instead of viewing it as, "I have to go to the gym because I want to lose weight," they

00:54:20

view exercise as the reward itself instead of the hard work.

00:54:24

That can help you overcome procrastination.

00:54:26

You don't view your quest as something that's going to take a ton of willpower to tackle.

00:54:32

You decide to pursue it for the pure enjoyment of the thing itself.

00:54:39

Exercise, again, that's something that I probably would not say is a quest for me, but I understand

00:54:47

how it could be.

00:54:49

Also from that section, though, this was interesting on page 232.

00:54:52

She talks about how planning to have fun instead of trying to seek the rewards is actually

00:54:57

a very powerful state of mind.

00:55:00

When I read that, I thought of ultra learning and how that's basically the exact opposite.

00:55:08

Because everything that you're doing in ultra learning is you're not there to have fun,

00:55:12

you're there to challenge yourself, and you should be doing that over and over and over

00:55:17

again.

00:55:19

There's two different approaches here, and I guess I find myself really liking this gamification

00:55:28

side of it.

00:55:29

Again, not to go back and rehash ultra learning.

00:55:33

I think that's very appropriate for certain people in certain situations, but I do think

00:55:39

that this fun framing and just do a little bit every day, win the day by designing these

00:55:45

quests, this is more like the advice that I would give pretty much anybody.

00:55:54

Sure.

00:55:55

Regardless of their situation.

00:55:59

I didn't like the section in here where she talks about smart goals.

00:56:03

I feel like smart goals have been beaten to death.

00:56:08

I do like the questions that she asks about quest design.

00:56:12

Is it specific?

00:56:13

Is it realistic?

00:56:14

Is it fun?

00:56:15

Is it adaptive?

00:56:16

Is it meaningful?

00:56:17

I think those are pretty good.

00:56:19

The real important ones out of there, I think, would be, is it meaningful?

00:56:27

That's the one that resonates with me.

00:56:28

I want to make sure that the stuff that I'm doing really does have meaning.

00:56:33

That doesn't necessarily mean that I'm going to change what I'm doing either.

00:56:38

This is something I think that people misunderstand about the idea of passion.

00:56:44

You don't just do what you're passionate about.

00:56:47

You bring your passion to the thing that you're engaged in.

00:56:50

I think it's Mike Rowe, a dirty job, who said, "Don't follow your passion, but always bring

00:56:54

it with you."

00:56:55

Your perspective is the thing that can bring passion.

00:56:58

You can infuse meaning into the things that you're doing.

00:57:01

Maybe you want to change what you're doing.

00:57:02

That's fine.

00:57:04

In the moment, the way that you're going to get to the place where you can change what

00:57:07

you're doing is to do it with all that you've got.

00:57:11

The other thing that really resonates with me because I am terrible at this is, is it

00:57:14

fun bringing more joy and having more fun in my day-to-day?

00:57:20

Once you've defined your quest for the day, those three pieces, the challenge is the overall.

00:57:28

Power-ups, bad guys, and quests.

00:57:30

That's the core of the game, but there's also some other aspects to it, the first of which

00:57:37

is allies.

00:57:39

Every time you get into, especially multiplayer games, it's super helpful to have your allies

00:57:44

in the game.

00:57:46

They can help give you quests.

00:57:48

They can help you with power-ups.

00:57:51

They can help you find the bad guys and battle them.

00:57:54

They are by your side as you go through the game.

00:57:58

Super better is no different.

00:58:00

Having your allies and making sure that they understand the rules of the game and the terminology

00:58:06

of the game, especially kids.

00:58:09

Kids can make great allies because they love this stuff.

00:58:11

Did you fight a bad guy today to add?

00:58:13

Like that whole thing can go a long, long ways.

00:58:17

Knowing who your allies are and helping them help you in the process of playing this game

00:58:25

is huge.

00:58:26

I mean, being able to have friends along your side as you're going through this can go a

00:58:31

very, very long way.

00:58:33

To find your allies, help them help you.

00:58:37

Yeah, and be a good ally to somebody else.

00:58:40

There's a whole section in here on how to be an awesome ally, which I thought was good.

00:58:45

But really, this is, if I were to reframe it, be a good friend and you'll get friends.

00:58:54

Yeah, for sure.

00:58:55

To have friends, you have to show yourself friendly, right?

00:58:58

That's really what this is all about.

00:59:00

It can be hard sometimes to ask somebody for help, especially if you're dealing with something

00:59:05

like the author was with the concussion.

00:59:09

I think a really interesting approach in this section is while it can be hard to ask someone

00:59:16

for help, it's a lot easier to ask them to play a game.

00:59:20

And playing a game with someone causes your stress levels to go down to boost your immune

00:59:23

system.

00:59:24

It makes your heart stronger, a whole bunch of other benefits.

00:59:27

So framing it that way as I want to do this game, which is going to make me a better person,

00:59:34

do you want to play it with me is, I think, a good strategy to use.

00:59:40

I also thought of the Bookworm Club when I read this section because you just described

00:59:51

it as once you decide on the rules that you're going to play by, then do it with other people

00:59:57

basically.

00:59:58

I forget exactly how you said it.

01:00:00

But the rules that we've defined for the podcast, other than when we get sick and we miss a

01:00:04

week, read a book every two weeks, right?

01:00:09

And that's what we do.

01:00:10

And everybody else who is doing that along with us, whether we talk to them or not, whether

01:00:14

they're signed up for the Bookworm Premium Membership or not, they're playing the game

01:00:19

with us.

01:00:20

People who are listening to this, they're playing the game with us.

01:00:23

And so that's kind of cool.

01:00:25

I thought when I read through this whole section on what an ally does and how to be a good

01:00:33

ally, it's kind of cool how we can do that for people through the medium of podcasting

01:00:40

that articulates the benefits of podcast that I have long believed are true in a much better

01:00:49

way, I think, than I have ever done.

01:00:53

And it's just kind of cool to think about it that way.

01:00:56

Yeah, I like the club.

01:00:58

I don't hang out there as much as I should.

01:01:00

I should change that.

01:01:01

I need to do that more.

01:01:02

So allies, do you have your allies to find, Mike?

01:01:07

Obviously, I feel like family is easy number one.

01:01:10

Yeah, I don't have my allies identified per this, but I do have, I forget which episode

01:01:18

it was, I went through and identified the relationships that I had.

01:01:24

I'm not sure if you remember that.

01:01:26

I do.

01:01:27

You were Joe plus plus.

01:01:28

Joe plus plus.

01:01:29

That's right.

01:01:30

I remember this.

01:01:31

Yeah.

01:01:32

So I forget exactly what that was from, but I do have that list.

01:01:36

So I feel like I've kind of done that already.

01:01:38

That's fair.

01:01:39

That's fair.

01:01:40

I'm with you on that.

01:01:41

I have a handful of close friends have not asked anyone specifically to play the game

01:01:45

with me yet because I'm trying to get all the details of it figured out to some degree,

01:01:50

like how I want to go about doing that.

01:01:52

But yes, needing to identify those allies.

01:01:56

But part of that, and I want to know your take on this because this is the next piece

01:02:00

down is developing a secret identity.

01:02:03

So whenever Jane McGonagall was going through her concussion, she gave herself the secret

01:02:09

identity of Jane the concussion slayer.

01:02:12

And I chuckled when I read that.

01:02:15

I mean, there are a lot of folks that gave themselves identities as in the stories that

01:02:21

she shares.

01:02:22

And I always like, hey, that's really cool.

01:02:24

I don't think I want to do that.

01:02:26

Like that's not something I really resonate with.

01:02:30

And then she gives this whole rationale on how giving yourself this alternative reality

01:02:36

of sorts that can help you in the healing process and the benefits of doing that.

01:02:44

Like, yeah, I don't argue with you on any of that.

01:02:47

I just don't like that idea.

01:02:49

Maybe this is me being an introvert.

01:02:52

Maybe that's all that is.

01:02:53

But that wasn't something that I found myself just anxious and excited to do.

01:02:58

Again, I'm not a huge gamer.

01:03:01

So maybe that's part of it.

01:03:02

But this is one that I like the concept, but I am not sure I'm going to follow through

01:03:09

on it.

01:03:10

Yeah.

01:03:11

Well, this was hard for me.

01:03:17

My secret identity, I don't know.

01:03:19

I was thinking through that, like, what's a superhero that kind of embodies what I want,

01:03:29

the ideal behaviors that I want to change, basically.

01:03:33

The only thing that came to mind was somebody like Stretch Armstrong.

01:03:36

You know, be more flexible.

01:03:39

And I had trouble making that personal.

01:03:43

I don't think there's anything tied to that that I want to use to celebrate my secret

01:03:52

identity the way that she describes it in this chapter, like creating a visual cue,

01:03:56

adopting a mantra or a call to action, picking a theme song, sneakily showing it off, collecting

01:04:00

heroic quotes, immersing yourself in the world of your hero, revealing your secret identity

01:04:05

to someone you trust.

01:04:07

That's not something that I really want to do, but I did find it interesting and I think

01:04:11

helpful to picture that superhero because I just, I get this Stretch Armstrong, like you

01:04:20

grab the arms and you like pull them away, way apart, you know, and then he like comes

01:04:24

back to shape.

01:04:25

That's what I want to be able to do.

01:04:27

I want my day to be able to be completely blown up and just be able to go back to normal,

01:04:34

like nothing ever happened.

01:04:36

That's the thing I'm really bad at.

01:04:38

Sure.

01:04:39

Because when stuff happens, I get frustrated that it happens and then I'm in this funk

01:04:42

for like a day afterwards, right?

01:04:44

I want to not have that happen.

01:04:46

I want to be able to just flow in and out of the different things that I have to do,

01:04:51

whether or not I had planned on, on doing them.

01:04:54

So I don't really have a secret identity that I want to embrace from this and I don't have

01:04:59

trouble even envisioning like flexibility like that as a heroic quality.

01:05:05

But I know that's the thing for me now.

01:05:06

And so I do credit the book with kind of showing me that.

01:05:09

Yeah.

01:05:10

I may still think through this one because again, it's a cool concept, I think.

01:05:16

And one that I can see the benefits, I won't argue with that at all.

01:05:21

And maybe this is just me being resistant to the work of going through that process

01:05:27

and embodying a separate identity of sorts.

01:05:33

Like I, maybe that's just me avoiding very likely.

01:05:39

But a thing, I'll at least keep in mind, I think we'll see.

01:05:43

The last rule here, Epic wins.

01:05:48

And Epic wins are, think of it this way, you're putting together your daily quests.

01:05:55

Say you have your daily quests and you string up a line of a hundred days in a row that

01:06:02

you achieve your quest.

01:06:03

That is an Epic win.

01:06:05

Or you have a marathon, you're going to run at the end of your challenge.

01:06:12

That's an Epic win.

01:06:14

It's the big wins that are much bigger than a quest or a consolidation of a bunch of quests.

01:06:20

It's the achievement of something big.

01:06:23

That's your Epic win.

01:06:24

And you can set goals.

01:06:26

And basically, this is where it starts to get flexible and how you want to play the game

01:06:31

in that you can set goals that are long term and shoot for those and those become Epic

01:06:36

wins when you achieve them because they're bigger than a day.

01:06:40

Like that can be your Epic win.

01:06:42

It can be a line of your quests as I referred to.

01:06:46

It can be a lot of different things.

01:06:48

It's just kind of up to you on how you want to do that.

01:06:51

But it's these bigger achievements in the midst of playing that game.

01:06:56

I tried to come up with what some of these would be.

01:06:59

Mike, the only one I really thought about was being able to say, yes, I'm past this

01:07:06

disease and I'm past the infections and such.

01:07:09

Being able to say I'm completely clear of that would be an Epic win.

01:07:13

But that's like I won the game sort of thing.

01:07:17

So it's kind of bigger yet than an Epic win.

01:07:20

So I haven't figured out what the smaller pieces of that would be.

01:07:24

I guess in my case, as I'm talking about this out loud, it would probably be like going

01:07:29

on trips or big family events and stuff and not having issues while I'm there.

01:07:35

But being able to build up and develop myself to where I don't have issues whenever I go

01:07:41

on trips, I don't have to spend a week recovering from max stock when I get home.

01:07:45

Being able to do something like that would be a big deal.

01:07:48

So maybe I just talked myself into some Epic wins.

01:07:51

You need to talk because I got to write this down.

01:07:54

Okay.

01:07:56

So this section here, this one I had a little bit of trouble with because I think the goals

01:08:03

which she defines as quests should really be Epic wins.

01:08:08

And that's probably because I'm approaching this through the 12 week year framework, personal

01:08:14

retreat framework, where the things that you are going to put as your goals for the 12

01:08:20

week year, the whole idea there is that you're setting big yearly goals and you're going

01:08:25

to try to achieve them in 90 days, right?

01:08:28

So I think those would qualify as Epic wins and you mentioned running a marathon.

01:08:35

That's actually something, well, half marathon, that was an Epic win for me.

01:08:41

And I was actually an Epic win twice because the first time I did it, I hurt myself and

01:08:44

then I had to set the goal again, you know, do it the right way.

01:08:48

But now that I've done that, I don't really think that really qualifies as an Epic win

01:08:54

anymore.

01:08:55

So it's kind of interesting how this stuff evolves.

01:08:57

Maybe the next half marathon that I run, that is just a quest and not an Epic win.

01:09:03

But I don't know, I kind of think when it comes to doing something new as an example,

01:09:11

that it's kind of maybe too granular to think of the quests and the Epic wins.

01:09:21

I think you kind of have to start with the Epic win.

01:09:24

Like I said, that's really the goal and then the quests are maybe the habits, the milestones

01:09:29

sort of a thing that you have to do in order to get there.

01:09:35

But I do agree with some of the philosophy behind this, where you do want to be able

01:09:39

to measure whether you are on track to achieve these and you do want it to be something that

01:09:47

you're not 100% positive that you can achieve.

01:09:51

That's kind of the distinction she makes is that if you know 100% that you can do something,

01:09:56

then it's a quest.

01:09:57

It's not an Epic win because the role of the Epic win is to shoot for breakthrough.

01:10:03

But I would argue that if you're setting goals that you're 100% positive you can achieve,

01:10:07

then you're probably just setting two small goals.

01:10:10

You know, a different way of saying the same thing.

01:10:12

Sure, you're not shooting high enough.

01:10:13

Right, exactly.

01:10:15

But yeah, I like the whole idea of the Epic wins.

01:10:19

I don't think I have anything specific right now that I want to label as an Epic win publicly,

01:10:26

but I do have a couple things that fall into this category for me.

01:10:31

And again, you know, I have trouble thinking of it in terms of quests versus Epic wins,

01:10:36

but I do have some things that are big goals for me based on my own framework.

01:10:43

Sure.

01:10:44

Well, keep in mind, quests are to be completed within 24 hours.

01:10:47

She does put that limitation on the quest side of it.

01:10:51

True.

01:10:52

I don't know if that helps here.

01:10:53

It does.

01:10:55

Although what about all the things then that you are 100% positive you can achieve, but

01:10:59

they're going to take longer than that.

01:11:02

Where did those fall?

01:11:03

Yeah, I don't know.

01:11:04

And where do you want them?

01:11:05

Is there even a reason to do those things?

01:11:07

A baseline win.

01:11:09

It's not an Epic win.

01:11:10

It's a baseline win.

01:11:11

I guess.

01:11:12

Yeah.

01:11:13

We were on episode 79, right?

01:11:18

So record episode 100.

01:11:19

Is that an Epic win?

01:11:21

I 100% positive we can do that as long as we don't decide that, no, this is pointless,

01:11:27

which I don't think is happening.

01:11:30

I guess me personally, like I would feel like that's 100, I'm 100% positive we can, we

01:11:34

can get to episode 100, right?

01:11:36

Right.

01:11:37

I do think that feels like an Epic win, but according to this definition, maybe it's

01:11:43

not, you know?

01:11:44

I don't know.

01:11:45

I think there's some flexibility in how you define some of it by design.

01:11:54

If you feel that it's an Epic win, go for it and call it an Epic win.

01:11:59

And Mike, maybe what you feel is an Epic win is something much bigger.

01:12:03

I think because me personally, I feel like hitting 100 episodes for Bookworm, like to

01:12:06

me, that would be an Epic win.

01:12:08

Yep.

01:12:09

Because it's still a lot of work between here and there.

01:12:11

I could say no and it could, like we could cancel the show have no interest in that.

01:12:16

No, you could pick plan of the cave bear next time and then we're done.

01:12:19

It's true.

01:12:20

It's true.

01:12:21

So whoever gets that message to me first, please don't do that because I don't want Mike to

01:12:24

cancel the show.

01:12:25

But I don't, I have zero interest in dropping Bookworm, but it is an option on the table

01:12:33

at all times.

01:12:34

True.

01:12:35

You know, anything you do, any project, anything you've got, like you can always say no to

01:12:39

it.

01:12:40

Should you?

01:12:41

Probably not in some cases with something like Bookworm.

01:12:45

It's not 100% mandatory for our incomes.

01:12:51

It's easier to say no to it.

01:12:53

Neither one of us want to do that.

01:12:55

Right.

01:12:56

But that means that getting to episode 100 does take some work and does take some commitment.

01:13:02

So to me, I would still say that's an Epic win.

01:13:04

Like, sure, it's a goal to shoot for.

01:13:06

I would call it that.

01:13:07

You may not because you feel like it's 100% in the bag already.

01:13:10

Well, I like the way you defined it not too long ago of something that you're excited

01:13:15

to achieve.

01:13:16

I think that's a better definition of an Epic win than it's not something you're 100% positive

01:13:22

you can, you can achieve or it's a certain length of time.

01:13:26

If you're super excited about it and it's big, call it an Epic win and sure be done.

01:13:30

Yeah.

01:13:31

Don't worry about it anymore.

01:13:33

Yeah.

01:13:34

For sure.

01:13:35

One piece of all this that I want to talk about somewhat because I'm curious to your

01:13:39

take on it is how to keep score.

01:13:41

I don't know of any game that doesn't have some score keeping mechanism.

01:13:46

Like, maybe it's a board game of sorts, but you always have a way to win.

01:13:52

Yep.

01:13:53

If you have a game that you can't win or you can't accrue points in some form, people

01:14:01

just don't play it.

01:14:02

Like, it's borderline or even a game.

01:14:05

So what is the score keeping formula for this?

01:14:11

And she does have a formula on how to get wins.

01:14:15

And that is on a daily basis, if you get three powerups in one day, you battle one bad

01:14:23

guy in a day and you achieve your quest in a day.

01:14:27

So three powerups, one bad guy, one quest.

01:14:31

All of those equal a daily win.

01:14:33

So you win the day if you've done those five things, the three powerups, the bad guy in

01:14:38

the quest.

01:14:39

Over time, you can accrue a string of daily wins and that could be, you know, a record

01:14:46

in itself.

01:14:47

You can track your personal records, like most powerups in a day, the most bad guys

01:14:52

you fought in a day, your longest daily win streak.

01:14:55

Like you can start tracking all of that.

01:14:58

Basically, having some way of accruing the numbers around all of this, I think is what

01:15:04

the intent of the app was.

01:15:05

Yeah.

01:15:06

I didn't dig into it a whole lot.

01:15:08

I downloaded it, glanced at it and thought, this is ugly.

01:15:11

I'm not going to do this.

01:15:12

That was my sum total experience with the app.

01:15:16

So I can't say I recommend going that route.

01:15:19

I'm sure many people do with great success, not for me.

01:15:24

So I will likely build out a spreadsheet somewhere for this.

01:15:29

Go figure.

01:15:31

But that's the process of keeping score.

01:15:33

Obviously, you're going to want to do something in order to help with that because having

01:15:37

those numbers visible at all times is also going to be helpful, just as somebody who does

01:15:42

data stuff or has in the past, like that to me is always important.

01:15:47

So keeping score, the three powerups, a bad guy in a daily quest equals a daily win.

01:15:53

Yeah.

01:15:55

I don't know what to do with this.

01:15:57

I initially thought, and I have it in my outline, to set up the super better system myself inside

01:16:05

of my task manager.

01:16:08

But as the more I think about it, the more distance that I get from reading this, I don't

01:16:13

really want to do that.

01:16:15

Sure.

01:16:17

So the powerups, I think, would be fairly easy.

01:16:19

In fact, I think an easier way to track those might be something like a habitify.

01:16:27

Is that how you say it?

01:16:29

There's this habit tracking app, Habitika.

01:16:33

It's where you create actually an avatar when you set it up.

01:16:37

And then you've got habits, you've got dailies, you've got to-dos, which are basically like

01:16:43

the quests in this sense.

01:16:46

And it's a social habit tracker so you can form parties and the more that you follow through

01:16:52

and check off the habits that you have in there, the more experience you get, and the

01:16:56

more health you get, and you get different abilities, different levels.

01:17:02

It's basically like an RPG for the habits that you want to create or bad habits that

01:17:07

you want to break.

01:17:08

I feel like that's as far as I would ever possibly want to take something like this.

01:17:14

I don't really think marking a daily win versus a non-daily win really makes a lot of

01:17:22

sense to me.

01:17:24

So if you're going to follow this formula, basically, you do your three powerups, you

01:17:29

battle your bad guy, but you don't complete your quest.

01:17:32

You mark that as a failure then?

01:17:35

It seems like you're either win or you lose with this method.

01:17:40

But I think that habit formation as the foundation for creating the life that you want to live,

01:17:50

there's a lot of gray area there.

01:17:53

And if you do 80% of this, you maybe did pretty good.

01:17:58

And ideally you want to do one thing and then once you've mastered that, you add another

01:18:02

thing and another thing and another thing.

01:18:04

I think the three powerups, this one bad guy plus one quest is to formulate for me.

01:18:13

And I do think that keeping score is definitely a good idea.

01:18:18

And whether you choose to use the super better system or you just choose to start building

01:18:23

positive habits, tracking them is a very good idea.

01:18:28

But I don't think I'm going to keep score her way and I'm definitely not going to keep track

01:18:35

of the four personal records that she says to keep track of your most powerful hour, your

01:18:39

most powerful day, your most epic battle day and your longest daily wind streak.

01:18:43

I have the most powerful hour.

01:18:46

I view that as like a biological prime time.

01:18:49

I've actually got that outlined on my daily planning sheet that I use inside of good notes.

01:18:55

But there's no data associated with that.

01:18:58

It's just anecdotally, this is what I've noticed.

01:19:02

And I think that's the thing that causes the most friction for me from this book is I tend

01:19:08

to notice these things generally.

01:19:13

And when you're talking about a game, you're keeping score, you have all of the data right

01:19:18

there.

01:19:19

It's interesting because you're talking about the spreadsheets and things like that.

01:19:23

Basically your brain is wired where you tend to think this way more than I do.

01:19:28

I tend to just like, I see these general observations and so I'm going to change something, right?

01:19:34

Yeah.

01:19:35

I think with for me, the numbers do help.

01:19:39

She does call out that having, you can change the formula.

01:19:44

But I feel like she needed to give you some formula.

01:19:47

It'd be a little weird if she did.

01:19:49

She did.

01:19:50

Yep, definitely.

01:19:51

I think I get your point and I'm quite certain that this particular formula is not for everyone.

01:19:59

I'm with you in that because you're right.

01:20:01

If you get three power ups, beat your bad guy for the day or multiple bad guys.

01:20:06

Take that example.

01:20:07

Say you got five power ups, beat four bad guys, but you didn't achieve your quest.

01:20:12

You went over and above on the first tube but missed the last one and that's still a loss.

01:20:18

I could definitely see how you do that or get to that point.

01:20:23

So I get your point.

01:20:26

As a numbers person and someone who loves the data side of it, that could be helpful.

01:20:34

I'm not usually one that wants to do the whole quantified self thing, but I do think

01:20:40

that the quantified self piece can get to be super helpful if you're dealing with something

01:20:48

very targeted.

01:20:50

If you're dealing with a disease or you're dealing with a cancer or a health issue, makes

01:20:55

perfect sense in my mind.

01:20:57

It's when everything is 100% healthy and people tend to use that as a way to ignore

01:21:05

what's going on with themselves.

01:21:07

That's when I start to have an issue.

01:21:09

People who don't pay attention to their heart rate because their watch does it.

01:21:13

That doesn't make sense to me.

01:21:16

You're outsourcing something you should pay attention to.

01:21:18

What happens if your watch, what happens if the battery is dead for a week for whatever

01:21:23

reason?

01:21:24

Then all of a sudden your heart rate spikes and you don't notice it.

01:21:29

Well, you've trained yourself to not pay attention to that.

01:21:33

If you're not healthy, you may not even be able to notice that stuff and you have a tendency

01:21:41

to need some of the quantified self pieces, that data in order to help you become aware

01:21:46

of it.

01:21:47

Even if you're healthy, if you're going to use it in that way, I could see it.

01:21:50

I wouldn't use it indefinitely.

01:21:54

Just using it for the rest of my life, that's not something I think I will ever do.

01:21:58

But right now, given the state of how I'm doing, I can't see.

01:22:03

I can't see multiple days out right now as to how things impact what's going to happen

01:22:09

in five days.

01:22:11

Because I know if I do something like record bookworm on an afternoon, I know it has an

01:22:15

impact on the next two days, but I can't tell you in what way.

01:22:20

You can't quantify it?

01:22:22

I can't.

01:22:23

I can't see it.

01:22:24

It's too abstract.

01:22:25

I know something's happening, but I can't tell you what.

01:22:29

Like trying to do the whole keeping score process, I feel like could be an avenue to

01:22:34

get an understanding on it.

01:22:36

I would have to keep notes on those days as well in order to see it.

01:22:42

My sense is that this particular formula, although it may not be 100%, is at least a

01:22:48

good starting point.

01:22:50

I feel it's at least something I can start with.

01:22:54

I say all this and you probably got the impression I'm going to do this, but I'm actually not

01:22:59

convinced I'm going to.

01:23:01

This is an interesting concept and one that's deeply fascinating to me.

01:23:09

Especially since I have a health issue, I'm trying to work through.

01:23:12

To me, that's the perfect case scenario to do something like this, but I'm not 100% convinced

01:23:17

on how it's going to work.

01:23:20

Some of that is because I don't have all of the bad guys defined.

01:23:24

I don't know what these quests are going to look like.

01:23:28

I don't 100% have it nailed down as to who all of my allies are going to be.

01:23:33

I don't have any of that nailed down yet, which is why the one and only action item I

01:23:38

have is to build out my super better game.

01:23:42

If that means I get to a point where a keeping score makes sense, I'll do it.

01:23:47

But I'm not 100% that that's going to happen quite yet, but I won't know until I get to

01:23:53

that point.

01:23:55

Maybe this is something you can follow.

01:23:58

This is a crazy way coming at this, but hopefully it's understandable.

01:24:03

I think I am keeping score just not the super better way.

01:24:08

For example, talked about how I changed the way that I planned my day.

01:24:12

I've got my three things.

01:24:13

Those I would argue are probably my three quests for the day.

01:24:17

I'm not choosing a bad guy to battle, but I also am tracking my habits inside of streaks.

01:24:25

This is interesting because you're talking about the quantified self stuff.

01:24:30

Everybody that I have known that has really just gone all in with quantified self stuff,

01:24:37

they get so obsessed with tracking all those little things and they lose sight of the big

01:24:43

things that they need to be doing.

01:24:46

They've got all this data and they find themselves not able to accomplish their goals still.

01:24:54

They're so focused on just gathering all this data.

01:24:58

I really like streaks.

01:25:00

I've been playing with it since Rose told me about the integration with shortcuts.

01:25:08

You can create automation.

01:25:10

I have one, for example, when I go into my Bible app in the morning, that's kind of

01:25:15

like a power up for me, I guess, to do my daily Bible reading that marks the streak

01:25:21

as completed or the habit as completed in streaks.

01:25:25

You can tie it to your mindfulness minutes inside of Apple Health.

01:25:31

Something like headspace, for example, if I were to meditate in the morning, that gets

01:25:36

marked then as mindfulness minutes inside of streaks for the amount of time that I spend

01:25:42

inside of the app.

01:25:45

I've gotten a lot better at tracking my habits that way because it happens automatically.

01:25:52

I don't have to think about it.

01:25:53

That's always been the thing that has caused it to break in the past is for a while I'll

01:25:58

go into my separate habit tracking app and I'll mark things as completed, but then I forget

01:26:03

one day my chain's broken and now all the motivation's gone to keep going with it.

01:26:09

Automating that stuff has helped a lot.

01:26:12

I think if I were to just real briefly articulate the way that I'm keeping score, it's tracking

01:26:18

my daily habits inside of the habit tracker and then tracking the three things that I'm

01:26:22

trying to do in a day in my paper list.

01:26:26

Go paper.

01:26:27

Yup.

01:26:28

Paper for the win.

01:26:29

All right, we're for part three.

01:26:30

This will be fast.

01:26:32

Adventures.

01:26:34

If you can't figure out what you should do to what your super better challenge should

01:26:39

be.

01:26:40

She gives you three potentials and gives you a bunch of quests, helps you identify your

01:26:46

powerups and bad guys for those challenges and you're off to the races.

01:26:53

Basically, she has three different super better games that you can play if you don't have

01:27:00

or want to set one up on your own.

01:27:04

She gives it to you.

01:27:05

Yup.

01:27:06

You have three of them that are canned.

01:27:07

I looked at these.

01:27:09

I didn't like any of them.

01:27:11

Yes.

01:27:12

I didn't do any of them.

01:27:13

Yeah, I'm of course not doing any of them.

01:27:17

I read through some of the titles on the quests and stuff.

01:27:20

I didn't read through all the detail on it because it's not going to do it.

01:27:25

So just skipped over that.

01:27:27

But the three different adventures are love connection, ninja body transformation and time

01:27:35

rich.

01:27:39

The first, just what you'd expect building a love relationship.

01:27:41

The second is your health, your fitness adventure as you would expect.

01:27:47

And the third is how to get more time in your days.

01:27:50

So basically there's one for pretty much everybody there.

01:27:54

I think some of the idea there is just, you know, make it possible for anyone and everyone

01:27:58

to get at least one.

01:28:00

Again, I'm not picking any or all of those.

01:28:04

So if you need help coming up with what this should be and you feel you're not creative

01:28:09

enough to develop some of this on your own, I guess you could pick from those.

01:28:14

I didn't really feel that it's a super better quick start.

01:28:18

Yeah, yeah.

01:28:19

That's a good way to say it.

01:28:20

Like it's the cheat sheet, if you will, for getting moving on this.

01:28:24

But I don't feel like powerups, bad guys and quests are that hard to define.

01:28:29

I think it maybe gets a little bit harder if you want to do like a secret identity, which

01:28:35

take it or leave it.

01:28:37

But anyway, if you want the quick start guide, it's there.

01:28:40

It will help you get going.

01:28:41

And maybe you can use that as a way to help you define some of the other pieces.

01:28:46

Maybe I'll skim back through it as a way to try to get ideas.

01:28:50

But I'm not going to follow it, you know, as it is.

01:28:53

Yep.

01:28:54

All right.

01:28:55

Action items.

01:28:56

Hit me.

01:28:57

You got three.

01:28:58

I mentioned these all already, but I want to play more games with my family, play with

01:29:04

purpose, put it in the outline as family game night.

01:29:08

But that doesn't mean we're playing games on a specific night every week, just something

01:29:13

that I want to do more intentionally.

01:29:16

Also I want to identify my powerups.

01:29:18

Talked about a couple of them, but I do want to think through a complete list and identify

01:29:24

my bad guys.

01:29:25

I feel like I really haven't done this very well yet.

01:29:28

And I think this could be beneficial.

01:29:30

I just have the one of build out the super better game for myself.

01:29:35

Yeah, I guess I didn't put that because I'm not all in with the formula she outlines.

01:29:42

Yeah, and I could be.

01:29:43

So I just picked pieces of it.

01:29:44

Yeah, I think the pieces like when I say build out the game, I mean, like, I know what

01:29:49

the challenge is.

01:29:51

I know most of my powerups, but I'm essentially saying I want to identify powerups, identify

01:29:55

bad guys, identify a few quests, formally invite my allies and maybe keep score.

01:30:06

Like when I say build out the game, that's what I mean by that, to put some more teeth

01:30:10

to it.

01:30:11

Sure.

01:30:12

So, style and rating, this is going to be hard.

01:30:17

I love her style.

01:30:18

She's easy to read.

01:30:20

The way they formatted the book made it super simple to understand like what is a quest

01:30:24

because she spells out quests and such through the whole book.

01:30:29

And that I love the way that she formulated the entire book and outlined it, etc, etc.

01:30:37

The stories are super helpful.

01:30:41

Love that.

01:30:42

As far as rating goes, this is, it's hard because you're essentially rating a game, which

01:30:52

is the core of the whole book.

01:30:55

But I haven't played the game.

01:31:00

So it's like trying to rate something you've not done is what it feels like, which I'm

01:31:07

not trying to cop out.

01:31:09

What I'm getting at is like, it's kind of hard for me to say how I would rate and recommend

01:31:15

this book, not knowing the outcome of it.

01:31:19

This is like, it's like reading the cover and then trying to say what you think about

01:31:23

it.

01:31:24

Like, ehh.

01:31:25

I got the intro.

01:31:27

I get the concepts.

01:31:29

They seem valid for the most part.

01:31:33

So I don't struggle with that.

01:31:37

So all of that said, if I take it just as a book, like what the content of this is and

01:31:44

what she says and how she says it, like it's a very good book.

01:31:48

I think it's one that if some folks are a little more open minded in how you can use

01:31:56

mindsets in a healing process, I would recommend this to them.

01:32:01

I can't tell you if I would recommend the super better game or not.

01:32:05

So just as a book, as a concept of using mindsets and using a gameful approach to achieving

01:32:13

something like a goal or a challenge of sorts that you're giving for yourself, I'll put

01:32:18

it at a 4.0 mostly because I don't know the other side of it.

01:32:24

But I don't feel like it's a bad book by any means.

01:32:27

I don't want to go too low with it.

01:32:30

So I'm kind of in this weird spot.

01:32:32

So I'm going to put it at a 4.0.

01:32:33

Again, I think if you're open to using mindsets in a gameful approach to achieving a goal,

01:32:41

this is one to go to.

01:32:42

I do like it for that.

01:32:44

Cool.

01:32:46

Well, this book reminded me of when I looked at the super better app was when we read Work

01:32:55

Clean, I think that was Dan Charnis.

01:32:58

And we got all excited about that.

01:33:00

And then we looked at the app and we're like, this hasn't been touched in years.

01:33:04

That's kind of the effect that I had with this book.

01:33:07

And it was kind of disappointing to be honest because I really enjoyed the book itself.

01:33:12

When I started reading the book, I got super excited about the super better system.

01:33:16

And at first I'm a little bit apprehensive about it.

01:33:19

And I'm like, well, it's probably not going to be that great.

01:33:23

Then she talks about the 400,000 people that are doing it, whatever.

01:33:25

And I'm like, OK, I need to check this out.

01:33:27

And then I go to download it from the App Store.

01:33:28

And it just looks like garbage.

01:33:32

That was too bad because she does a great job of telling the stories.

01:33:37

She does a great job of citing all of the research.

01:33:39

I mean, there's tons and tons of research in this book, which is really, really interesting

01:33:45

because you mentioned it near the beginning.

01:33:47

You kind of are force fed stuff.

01:33:51

You hear things basically about how bad video games are for you.

01:33:55

And she has a whole bunch of data that shows that maybe that's not really true.

01:34:01

So just how it kind of shifted my perspective on how you can use these things.

01:34:06

And just because they exist doesn't mean-- or just because they can be used negatively

01:34:11

doesn't mean that the tool itself is necessarily bad.

01:34:15

And it kind of challenged me to rethink how I want to use this intentionally to achieve

01:34:19

the desired results.

01:34:21

I really enjoyed her style.

01:34:23

I read through this book pretty quickly, to be honest.

01:34:26

I did not go through it the way that you're supposed to because there are quests along

01:34:32

the way.

01:34:33

I think she calls them quests within the book.

01:34:35

Yes.

01:34:36

There's like 80 of them or something like that.

01:34:38

And I didn't do a single one because they-- that would have made the book take significantly

01:34:44

longer to go through it that way.

01:34:47

So if you were to do it the way that she outlined it, maybe you get a different-- a different

01:34:52

outcome too.

01:34:53

You know, that's worth calling out right here that, you know, we didn't do it technically

01:34:56

the right way.

01:34:58

But I really like the book.

01:35:01

I really like the ideas that she shares in here.

01:35:03

I really like her story and how she shares that she's been able to overcome stuff.

01:35:09

It's kind of hard to argue with stuff like that, you know.

01:35:13

So if you approach it as what pieces of this can I take and modify, which is kind of what

01:35:20

I do every time that I read a book, I think there's a lot here.

01:35:23

I wouldn't recommend it going in and saying like, here's a system.

01:35:28

Now follow the system.

01:35:30

But if you can get past that, I think there's a lot of good stuff here.

01:35:33

I'm going to join you at 4.0.

01:35:36

I feel like this is a really long book and you do have to put in some effort to get the

01:35:41

good ideas out of here.

01:35:44

But it's a worthwhile read.

01:35:46

As long as you can go into it with an open mind and be flexible in how you're going to

01:35:52

apply the principles and not try to just do it, you know, the way that she recommends

01:35:57

it.

01:35:58

If there was a better tool or app or system that was connected to it, if the app was

01:36:06

better, maybe this is a 4.5, but it's almost like the content is so good.

01:36:13

And then because it's connected to the app, that's a reflection of the content in the

01:36:18

book too.

01:36:19

So you read the book and you get excited about the app and then you look at the app

01:36:23

and you're like, well, this hasn't received any TLC in a long time.

01:36:28

It kind of devalues the ideas in the book, in my opinion, not that it necessarily even

01:36:36

should, but that's the impression that you get when you look at it.

01:36:40

It's like, oh, maybe these ideas aren't so earth shattering.

01:36:46

Maybe they're not so great because look at this thing.

01:36:49

It's not so great.

01:36:51

So I kind of wish that those were disconnected.

01:36:53

Well speaking of long books, what's happening?

01:36:57

The next book is even longer and it is Principles by Ray Dalio.

01:37:03

Although I'm probably about halfway through this and it's a really interesting read and

01:37:08

it's going a lot quicker than I thought it would because a lot of the pages just have

01:37:12

like one sentence on them and it's in big letters.

01:37:17

It's an interesting book.

01:37:18

I've read it before.

01:37:19

I'm going through it again at the moment.

01:37:21

I'm excited about to talk through this one with you.

01:37:23

It'll be a fun episode for sure.

01:37:26

Speaking Principles, we actually have kind of a special book.

01:37:30

It's called You Are Awesome by Neil Harswiesha.

01:37:34

Hopefully I got your name right, Neil.

01:37:37

We actually have these advanced readers editions in this case.

01:37:42

You know how we always tease about these random fiction books wanting us to review their book?

01:37:47

Well, we actually had somebody with a nonfiction book want us to do that.

01:37:51

I agreed.

01:37:53

So they sent us a couple of these.

01:37:55

More importantly, it looked like a good book.

01:37:58

Yeah.

01:37:59

Yeah.

01:38:00

I was reading through some of it and had some questions and such.

01:38:03

I was like, you know what?

01:38:04

I am genuinely interested in this one.

01:38:07

So they sent us a couple.

01:38:09

And as odd as this is, they sent us these a little while back.

01:38:12

It just hasn't fit real well.

01:38:15

So we're going to be covering that one, two books from now.

01:38:20

But you can actually pre-order that one right now and it comes out November 5th.

01:38:25

So you can get this still and read along with us because it will be out by the time we

01:38:31

actually get through it.

01:38:34

So just making that aware it was sent to us, but super excited about that one because it

01:38:39

looks really interesting.

01:38:41

So there you go.

01:38:42

You are awesome by Neil Harswiesha.

01:38:44

Hopefully I'm getting your name right now.

01:38:46

You got any gap books, Mike?

01:38:47

I have a potential gap book, which I may or may not get to, but it is stillness is the

01:38:54

key by Ryan Holiday.

01:38:56

I am very excited to dive into this one.

01:38:59

Yeah, that one has been on pre-order for a while too.

01:39:02

That's brand brand new, right?

01:39:03

Just within the last few weeks, right?

01:39:05

Yep.

01:39:06

He's kind of been making the rounds lately on the TV shows and the podcasts and things.

01:39:11

Right.

01:39:12

But I was a big fan of the obstacle is the way I did not actually read Ego is the enemy,

01:39:17

which was his other book.

01:39:19

But I feel like I know what to expect from Ryan Holiday and I'm looking forward to this

01:39:23

one.

01:39:24

Yeah.

01:39:25

I do not have a gap book primarily because Joe has been sick and I know better and Mike

01:39:32

picked a long one.

01:39:34

So I'm going to read principles by next time.

01:39:37

I'm going to be content with that.

01:39:40

Right.

01:39:41

So that's where I met on that now.

01:39:44

Going back to how we picked books again, send me a private message if you remember.

01:39:51

I will check.

01:39:53

On the bookworm club.

01:39:54

So bookworm.fm/membership.

01:39:57

Go there.

01:39:58

Become a member.

01:39:59

Send me a private message on the club club.bookworm.fm with what book you want us to read next.

01:40:06

I just am envisioning all of these scenarios where this could go very poorly.

01:40:12

I hope I'm wrong.

01:40:13

It could be fun.

01:40:14

It could be very fun.

01:40:16

So send me a private message with what book you want us to cover.

01:40:20

All right.

01:40:21

And if you're joining us, then pick up principles by Ray Dalio and we will talk to you in a couple